New Political System for Pakistan

[Prodigy17]

We inherited the British Parliamentary system of one man one vote. Having clung enthusiastically to this system for so long and having seen so many governments come and go, one is but compelled to think whether this is the system we want. Just look at the literacy rate and imagine that we leave our fate after every 5 years to the vote of this uneducated and unaware majority. This majority votes for its feudal lord unquestionably or votes on Biradari system without even knowing the position of that individual on national issues so in effect we elect these people based not on issues but local and personal interests of influential people. Just imagine, how many of our constituency have remained loyal to their feudal lords to the extent that they can get anybody elected from their constituencies.

Is that fair ??? Keep in mind the fact that this system continues and will continue to bring the same faces because under the existing system we can't expect to see the change. Politics is restricted to elite and common man only keeps getting frustrated at the indifference of these politicians to national and local issues. How many of them actually visit their constituencies after election ??? Now remember, we have tried some experiments in the past as well like presidential system or the electoral college and one unit etc.

This thread is for discussion on the most suitable political system for Pakistan based on internal dynamics which will really enable an elected government to claim being the representative of people and which will be accountable to people. You can come up with a new idea or suggest some existing political system of a country to be adopted as a model. Lets hear, what you have to say....

 

[batmannow]

We inherited the British Parliamentary system of one man one vote. Having clung enthusiastically to this system for so long and having seen so many governments come and go, one is but compelled to think whether this is the system we want. Just look at the literacy rate and imagine that we leave our fate after every 5 years to the vote of this uneducated and unaware majority. This majority votes for its feudal lord unquestionably or votes on Biradari system without even knowing the position of that individual on national issues so in effect we elect these people based not on issues but local and personal interests of influential people. Just imagine, how many of our constituency have remained loyal to their feudal lords to the extent that they can get anybody elected from their constituencies.

Is that fair ??? Keep in mind the fact that this system continues and will continue to bring the same faces because under the existing system we can't expect to see the change. Politics is restricted to elite and common man only keeps getting frustrated at the indifference of these politicians to national and local issues. How many of them actually visit their constituencies after election ??? Now remember, we have tried some experiments in the past as well like presidential system or the electoral college and one unit etc.

This thread is for discussion on the most suitable political system for Pakistan based on internal dynamics which will really enable an elected government to claim being the representative of people and which will be accountable to people. You can come up with a new idea or suggest some existing political system of a country to be adopted as a model. Lets hear, what you have to say....

Dear Armor Boy; sir
wellcome to the party, great post!
Briton based democratic system of govt in pakistan, really sucks and unsuccessfull in solving problums of common man , but the probum is that , it was still in use because it, fits to the rich upper class of our political elites.
our political elites, who ran our country 40 years, never wanted to give power to poors in pakistan, thus this system is became a mafia system.

we need a political system , which can make us live with other prograsaive nations on the earth, which can provide equal oppourtunities to rich & poors, which can provide, better education, good health facilaties, determined & fair justice system to all,independent external & internal policies, & also can give us strong defence as it is the most important pilars for any booming economy and a system ,and the most importantly which can give freedom to practice ISLAM in pakistan with peace & knowledge to in every sects

how you think about it.
plz open up your thoughts so we can , elobarate further!
good luck.
thanks

 

[DudeAl]

Its not the system,but people who run the system.In Pakistan you have the wrong kind of people running everything ,get rid of them and the system will correct itself

 

[batmannow]

Its not the system,but people who run the system.In Pakistan you have the wrong kind of people running everything ,get rid of them and the system will correct itself

DudeAl;sir
this system is created by these rich morans, for thier well being!
how can this system wouldbe justified?

 

[Imran Khan]

thats mean we have to change people of pakistan.fudel system iis secend enemy of pakistan after tarerr.its distroy our whole system.

 

[Prodigy17]

I wish we could change our people or our politicians. But what we can do is to think about alternatives which suit our existing conditions. One man, one vote democracy is designed and suitable for societies which have high literacy rates, see western domocracies for example but less so far still tribal influenced societies like us.

Ok, let me elaborate furhter, while talking to a Pakistan movement veteran, it was revealed to my surprise that Muslim League proved itself to be representative of the muslims of subcontinent on the basis of 1945 elections where it swept almost all muslim seats. Guess what, only selected muslims eduacated and with certain standing got to vote in the election. The veteran believed that if all muslims had gone to vote the result of this decisive election would have been different because Muslim League was being supported by educated muslims who had the right to vote and who understood that creation of Pakistan would lead them to economic emancipation. (btw my family did not migrate from India)

So brother we owe our existence to educated people who voted for an issue instead of voting for their feudal lord. Now, if you think that the present system is workable in Pakistan, then we can introduce some modifications also for example graduation for members or for both voters and the members.
Another example of dysfunctionality of this system is that in a parliamentary democracy, prime minister is the decision maker and president only a figure head, ceremonial appointment. But just see that in the last decade we have had 4-5 prime ministers who were mere puppets with all powerful presidents as is the case even now.
Should we go for presidential system ??? Should we go for two party system ??? Should we ban religious parties ??? Should the armed forces have a role ??? Should we be a progressive Islamic republic or theocratic republic like Iran ??? Can we be a secular country like Turkey ???
All these questions linger in mind with their pros and cons so what's your opinion, how can we change or modify the system to suit our requirement.

 

[JK!]

Democracy is working just fine in Britain but as the man has said not so in Pakistan.

I think it is because of outdated practices based on the divide and rule principles used during the British Raj where power was given to land owners and tribal chiefs leading to this current situation.

Pakistan is an example of the sheer flaws of the democratic system where normal citizens have to suffer the verdict of the ill educated majority who are in the grip of the elitist class.

 

[muse]

Thank you armor Boy for this excellent thread - indeed the problem of Pakistan is it's political structure -

Its not the system,but people who run the system.In Pakistan you have the wrong kind of people running everything ,get rid of them and the system will correct itself

Just as communists when asked to explain how their political religion can justify 35 million deaths at the hands of communists suggest that it is not communism but some leaders who are to blame - it rings hollow.

Some have suggested that UK system works just fine in UK but not in Pakistan, could it be because the system is one that has roots in UK and not in Pakistan?? Every political system that is representative must have roots in the ideas and events that give rise to that system, in Pakistan, every hoodlum and feudal imagines he can be king (disguised as premier) - and is the substance of democracy to give away the treasury? is the substance of democracy that it's lawmakers be above the law? OUGHT vox populi be vox dei - the voice of the masses as the voice of God? is this not a recipe for disaster where in the good is equated with what is engineered as the voice of the people??

representative governance aims to give a voice and gain the consent of the governed, but is that the same as the voice of the feudal and obscuritanist? After all, do you imagine that the people of Pakistan have given their consent to Zardari or Nawaz, who do not even practice democractic process in their own political parties, let alone in national politics? And Fazlu? Are not all these representatives of a non-representative process??

Perhaps Pakistan can learn from the constitution of Iran and China - what we seek is rational, civil politcal discourse and represetative process - is it "undemocractic" to ask that law makers be educated and have familiarity with the making of law? For instance would you consult mechanic when you are sufferin from medical illness, no, you would seek a medical professional, so why not the same with members of majlis?

And what of the scope of the Majlis? Shall it not make laws and refine laws or shall it also seek whom to reward monetarily, shall it seek to make politics a venue of vendetta, Badla?

What should be the appropriate scope of the Executive, Judiciary and legislature? Should pakistan continue to have weak governments that every few years undo what the previous government has done??

And most importantly, what about this "Awaam" business?? How should this be dealt with? What kind of economic system should Pakistan follow? Should socialists policis continue to dominate? What is the point of representative governance without Liberty??

Should the Pakistani political system advocate a vision for pakistan to follow? Should it be open to criticism and reformulate policies when the criticism is valid? Should government advocate what it believed to the public good? Should government's role be wholesale transfers of wealth beween segments of society?

Are all citizens to be equal before the law?? Why is it right and good that citizens be unequal before the law?

 

[Prodigy17]

we need a political system , which can make us live with other prograsaive nations on the earth, which can provide equal oppourtunities to rich & poors, which can provide, better education, good health facilaties, determined & fair justice system to all,independent external & internal policies, & also can give us strong defence as it is the most important pilars for any booming economy and a system ,and the most importantly which can give freedom to practice ISLAM in pakistan with peace & knowledge to in every sects

I think this serves to define what we are looking for and gives a broad framework for the desired political structure for Pakistan. But this also implies that we ought to have a very strong and top heavy government. what about provincial autonomy and loose federation with strong defence ???

Pakistan is an example of the sheer flaws of the democratic system where normal citizens have to suffer the verdict of the ill educated majority who are in the grip of the elitist class.

Exactly, we need a political structure which takes care of our dynamics and not some copy of a nation whose dynamics are completely different from us.

Perhaps Pakistan can learn from the constitution of Iran and China - what we seek is rational, civil politcal discourse and represetative process - is it "undemocractic" to ask that law makers be educated and have familiarity with the making of law? For instance would you consult mechanic when you are sufferin from medical illness, no, you would seek a medical professional, so why not the same with members of majlis

Absolutely agree.

And most importantly, what about this "Awaam" business?? How should this be dealt with? What kind of economic system should Pakistan follow? Should socialists policis continue to dominate? What is the point of representative governance without Liberty??

We have faced this dillema since long and its about time we create some consensus and carve out a permanent policy on the issue.

What about the local bodies system, is it working ??? I can see lot of efforts to revert back to the old magestarial system, so the beaurocrat is going to deliver for us ??? How can we compare both ??? frankly in my opinion we lacked the structure for institutionalized or formal grooming of future politicians. They would straight come to provincial or national assembly and would get a ministry without any experience at all and then fall into the trap of psychophants to leave their jobs to secretaries??? To me, this system was providing us the basis for seeing some fresh faces who would start as union nazims and then climbing the stairs up the ladder becoming district nazims, then provincial assembly and followed by national assembly ??? Do you favor a law or some procedure which imposes certain conditions for coming to national assembly like experience as town or district nazim, followed by experience at provincial level. Any other suggestions ????

 

[mujahideen]

We need a system which works for us. We might of inherited the British system, but even the Quaid said this system was not for us. In my opinion we need a Presidential system.

 

[BanglaBhoot]

Bangladesh also inherited the British system and we have faced similar problems as Pakistan but less with feudalism and more with dynastic rule. We experimented with the presidential form of government but that did not go anywhere and created similar problems as the past and most recently the army intervened to clean up politics through fighting corruption but they themselves became corrupted. Now the concept that is being heard is to have a regimented society like Singapore but this requires a strong and tough leader. Unfortunately we are lacking in those.

 

[jeypore]

Mr radical idea for new Pakistanie political system would be that half of parlimentary seats should be given to the army and other half would be voted by the people. People voted party in power of course would be Prime minister and President. But this would allow the army in the political system and give a check and balance between the two extremes in Pakistan.

 

[batmannow]

We need a system which works for us. We might of inherited the British system, but even the Quaid said this system was not for us. In my opinion we need a Presidential system.

mujahideen; sir
if you allow me ! to add a bit to your point"we need a Presidential system", yes! but with socialistic approch , with islamic in nature?
what do you think?

 

[third eye]

I wish we could change our people or our politicians. But what we can do is to think about alternatives which suit our existing conditions. One man, one vote democracy is designed and suitable for societies which have high literacy rates, see western domocracies for example but less so far still tribal influenced societies like us.

Ok, let me elaborate furhter, while talking to a Pakistan movement veteran, it was revealed to my surprise that Muslim League proved itself to be representative of the muslims of subcontinent on the basis of 1945 elections where it swept almost all muslim seats. Guess what, only selected muslims eduacated and with certain standing got to vote in the election. The veteran believed that if all muslims had gone to vote the result of this decisive election would have been different because Muslim League was being supported by educated muslims who had the right to vote and who understood that creation of Pakistan would lead them to economic emancipation. (btw my family did not migrate from India)

So brother we owe our existence to educated people who voted for an issue instead of voting for their feudal lord. Now, if you think that the present system is workable in Pakistan, then we can introduce some modifications also for example graduation for members or for both voters and the members.
Another example of dysfunctionality of this system is that in a parliamentary democracy, prime minister is the decision maker and president only a figure head, ceremonial appointment. But just see that in the last decade we have had 4-5 prime ministers who were mere puppets with all powerful presidents as is the case even now.
Should we go for presidential system ??? Should we go for two party system ??? Should we ban religious parties ??? Should the armed forces have a role ??? Should we be a progressive Islamic republic or theocratic republic like Iran ??? Can we be a secular country like Turkey ???
All these questions linger in mind with their pros and cons so what's your opinion, how can we change or modify the system to suit our requirement.[/QUOTE]

Very relevant issues.

As someone here said, the ppl on top of the chain will subvert any system for their pers gains.

The key is to break the stanglehold of two classes..the Army & the landlords. While the army seems to have some level of acceptablility in Pak politics ( howsoever wrong it may be), the hold of landlords mustbe broken.For this land reforms are critical.

It will take a great deal of effort to do this. India did this early as a result the Zemindari system was abolished in 50's & 60's. The land ceiling & zemindari abolition acts ( with diff ceilings for diff states depending on the nature of land) undid a lot.

No that its perfect, but things have evolved to a point when elections are held regularly & now regional issues play a more important role in national elections leading to development as felt necessary at state level & not decided by mandarins in the capital.

Pak needs to evolve for itself a system wherein large land holdings decrease & the army remains in a watchdog mode only.

Another imp pillar in nation building / upholding is the Judiciary,unless this is not given autonomy within the constitution the system will remain skewed. One recalls the courageous ruling by a High Court in UP in the 70's which declared Indira Gandhi's election null & void on acct of violation of the code of conduct. She was at the peak of her power then. This ruling set the precedent for judicial indep. Left to themselves, the politicians & the Army ( in Pak's case) can run amok at times.

 

[Prodigy17]

Mr radical idea for new Pakistanie political system would be that half of parlimentary seats should be given to the army and other half would be voted by the people. People voted party in power of course would be Prime minister and President. But this would allow the army in the political system and give a check and balance between the two extremes in Pakistan.

Is this a sneer... or you are merely trying to have some fun in this serious discussion ???

The key is to break the stanglehold of two classes..the Army & the landlords. While the army seems to have some level of acceptablility in Pak politics ( howsoever wrong it may be), the hold of landlords mustbe broken.For this land reforms are critical.

Very pertinent observations and i agree that in any future political structure, we need to devise some deliberate strategy to counter these.

Bangladesh also inherited the British system and we have faced similar problems as Pakistan but less with feudalism and more with dynastic rule. We experimented with the presidential form of government but that did not go anywhere and created similar problems as the past and most recently the army intervened to clean up politics through fighting corruption but they themselves became corrupted. Now the concept that is being heard is to have a regimented society like Singapore but this requires a strong and tough leader. Unfortunately we are lacking in those

Agreed 100%

We need a system which works for us. We might of inherited the British system, but even the Quaid said this system was not for us. In my opinion we need a Presidential system.

Mujahideen and batmannow, both of you have suggested a presidential system. I would support the idea but we have tried it before. Let me briefly analyse it for you so that we can come up with some answers about the deficiencies observed in that system.That system introduced by Ayub Khan was based on electoral college which elected the president directly. besides that there were national and provincial assemblies as well. the electoral college comprised certain number of basic democrats in each district who would vote for the choice of President. President had his handpicked cabinet which assisted him in the running of affairs.
Now, some problems, first and foremost is that the president is all powerful so if wrong person selected for the job, removing him will be a problem so a strong check is then required against such president. These basic democrats will have to be then selected according to a strict criteria to ensure to break the monopoly of feudals. The centre will invariably become very strong resulting in weak provincial governments.

Socialism is again a strong notion but hardly any example available of a government running it successfully. I believe that the global economic system would not be supportive and in addition government control of institutions as we have already witnessed will lead to endemic corruption and mismanagement. I believe privatization will ultimately lead to better econmic condition of middle and lower classes because the investor would make sure to run the business profitably and would give preference to talent. he would make sure that there is no corruption and would provide better and equal opportunities to all to excell.