New pics of INS Vikramditya

[Tumba]

US, France, China(J-11B) and Russia can make the whole part of a plane as an example - airframe, engine and radar. They are not reliant on anyone else for key sub-systems. I have little time for this "every nation uses components from other nations" argument anymore. Still waiting to hear which major system, apart from Akash SAM, India currently has deployed in it's inventory.

@daterSaab - "4) How many aircraft cariiers in the world can carry/operate 150+ aircraft?"

A little bit of thinking would have made anyone realise that 150 aircraft would have been spread between the 2 aircraft carriers.

If Indians cannot come up with anything better than the arguments that I have been seeing, then I will no longer bother replying. Most here want to argue for the sake of arguing.

wats the obsession of a bengali living in UK with chinese who will dry up bangladesh by blocking brahmputra ... good for you ...

 

[The_Sidewinder]

I think you have very poor knowledge about how these things work..

See,first thing is,whatever be the development,it is a progressive development.Nobody re-invents the wheel to make a car.You may belong to a unique category to think like that.

Second thing is,these aircrafts you are talking about are actually made from components that are supplied from a host lot of countries.The F-16/F-35 has components supplied from a host of countries including Japan,Germany,France etc.TASL,a subsidiary of the Indian business group TATA,also supplies components for F-16.Its just a matter of cost and efficiency.at the end of the day,everybody wants a system that works efficiently and the cost is low.
Even the example that you are giving about J-11 is flawed in the very basics.J-11 is a fighter jet developed from the Russian Su-27SK.Even many of the jets use Russian engines( Lyulka AL-31F ).The Chinese also have their WS-10A engines as well.

Lastly,regarding that super-carrier.Making something really big doesnt necessarily make it better than any other.It depends upon what your requirement is.The classic case of "Spruce Goose" comes to my mind now.If the Chinese have any such requirement then they will do it.However,I think that idea is still at the stage or proposal.If that be the case,I see no point in building up a case for comparison based on some proposed idea,where no material work has happened in the ground.

Mr. Uk bengali..i guess u got a rational answer to ur quetion

 

[Tumba]

No as it is around 20,000 tonnes lighter than the VARYAG. The Indian carrier will carry 24 Mig-29s, while the Chinese carrier could easily carry more of much larger J-15.

n mr bengali.. how much time will it survive in indian waters ...or will it be able to cross Andman n Nicobar... ???

24 Mig - 29 .. do you know how much an overkill these are in supportive conditions ... ??? a chinese CBG will be sunk before it reaches close to even bay of bengal ...

 

[UKBengali]

n mr bengali.. how much time will it survive in indian waters ...or will it be able to cross Andman n Nicobar... ???

24 Mig - 29 .. do you know how much an overkill these are in supportive conditions ... ??? a chinese CBG will be sunk before it reaches close to even bay of bengal ...

Really, why are you getting defensive?

I was just answering a question that was posed. The Varyag will be far more capable as it will be 67,500 tonnes as opposed to around 45,000 tonnes of the Indian carrier.

 

[Laughing_soldier]

No as it is around 20,000 tonnes lighter than the VARYAG. The Indian carrier will carry 24 Mig-29s, while the Chinese carrier could easily carry more of much larger J-15.

Indian IAC-2 70000 ton. It will carry PAK FA and F-35. much better than J-15 or anything chinese can do.

---------- Post added at 09:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:31 AM ----------

Mr. Uk bengali..i guess u got a rational answer to ur quetion

No he cannot reply to the post.

 

[Laughing_soldier]

Really, why are you getting defensive?

I was just answering a question that was posed. The Varyag will be far more capable as it will be 67,500 tonnes as opposed to around 45,000 tonnes of the Indian carrier.

Vayrag far more capable because its weight is more?

This man is a joke.

 

[Hulk]

Check it out- most of the work seems complete, although there is, still, some work to do:

Why do this pictures look old to me, last I heard they started the sea trials, but this is way off.

 

[pmukherjee]

You have proved my point. Only the US can go against the Chinese Navy moving forward. India cannot hope to fight it out with Chinese 100,000 tonne supercarriers as India does not plan to have anything comparable in the next decade. India's biggest carrier will be around 65,000 tonnes and these carriers will only carry half the number of combat aircraft as the 100,000 tonne supercarriers that China has in the pipeline.


I think the US and China will be near peers in 2020-2030 timeframe and then China will have an overwhelming advantage over the US. From around 2040 then India could possible start challenging the Chinese Navy firstly in the Indian Ocean and then globally.

What are these 100,000 ton Chinese Super Carriers that you keep harping about? As of now, they are giving finishing touches to the Varyag which is expected to be used to train Chinese naval aviators. The are building one of their own on a design similar to the Varyag. This second indigenous Chinese carrier may be launched by 2015/2016 and become operational by 2018/2019. I have not heard of any Chinese 100,000 ton super carrier. If they start making one now, it can be operational not earlier than 2025. Yet you are saying that they will have 2 of them by 2020. Not only is this impossible but I have read statements by Chinese think tanks (actual think tanks and not the PDF type) somewhere that the Chinese do not consider 100,000 ton ACs suited to their maritime strategy. Will be glad to know your source. By 2020, by the best estimates, the Chinese will have 2 ACs based on the varyag design and 2 more of a different design under construction.

 

[UKBengali]

Vayrag far more capable because its weight is more?

This man is a joke.

I think you are the joke here.

Varyag has a much larger surface area on deck and space below deck to hold more aircraft than the Indian carrier ever could as it is larger and heavier.

Please stop embarrasing your country with your words.

 

[UKBengali]

What are these 100,000 ton Chinese Super Carriers that you keep harping about? As of now, they are giving finishing touches to the Varyag which is expected to be used to train Chinese naval aviators. The are building one of their own on a design similar to the Varyag. This second indigenous Chinese carrier may be launched by 2015/2016 and become operational by 2018/2019. I have not heard of any Chinese 100,000 ton super carrier. If they start making one now, it can be operational not earlier than 2025. Yet you are saying that they will have 2 of them by 2020. Not only is this impossible but I have read statements by Chinese think tanks (actual think tanks and not the PDF type) somewhere that the Chinese do not consider 100,000 ton ACs suited to their maritime strategy. Will be glad to know your source. By 2020, by the best estimates, the Chinese will have 2 ACs based on the varyag design and 2 more of a different design under construction.

I have heard from other forums of the Chinese intention to start building 100,000 tonne suoercarriers by 2013 and ready to be launched by 2018, which will mean they will be ready by 2020 for operations.

Now why i think this is a real possibility? It is do with intentions and capabiity .

China pretty much has all the escorts available now to provide suppport for an aircraft carrier. Expect the Varyag to be escorted by Type-052C+(at least 2 have been launched in the last year) and also the Type-093 SSN. Now while this would be a formidable battlegroup as far as Asia is concerned it would be nothing compared to a US supercarrier battlegroup. Only the Type-052C+ will come close to matching the equivalent US destroyers escorting the US carriers. Both the carrier and the Type-093SSN will be much inferior to the US equivalents.

Now China will almost certainly have follow ons to the Type-052C and the Type-093SSNs most probably around the middle of this decade. These will be much more suitable to escort any future 100,000 tonne supercarrier that China can produce as their technololy levels will be closer to that of the US equivalents.

Since China can pretty much build a supercarrier as it can easily build nuclear reactors as they would most probably use several of a newer version that they already use on their Type-093SSN, they just need the intention. China most probably will surpass the US to become the largest economy in the world by 2020(even quicker at GDP PPP), and it would feel that it either needs to or must build a Navy that could match the US's in every respect. Supercarriers would be a part of this. The world's largest economy will end up building the world's largest military eventually.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Typical response when someone shows up the absurdity of Indians trying to compare their country to China.

Let us compare the GDP's of China and India in 2011 : China x4 compared to India

Indigenous Military Capability: China can make virtually everything that it requires whereas the only substantial system that India has made is the Akash SAM.

If India was on the same level as China then I would not hesitate to say that it is. The reality is that living standards in India are pretty much the same as Bangladesh.

India 's per capita income is twice that of bangaldesh and india's HDI is also higher than Bangladesh . That is a lot of difference . Bangladesh is still considered a 4th world country while India is considered 3rd world ,.

Most importantly Indian economy and per capita income is also growing faster than Bangladesh .

Bangladeshis should stick to the topic or stand being embarrassed further .

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

I understand that Many of India's neighbours are scared to see a powerful India and shiver at its thought and that leads to some comforting and wishful thinking on their part , but these are short-term measures , living in reality will help Some of our neighbours counter the so called Indian theat ( Real or Imagined) in the long - term . China worship will not take them anywhere . Learn to stand on your own feet .

 

[Tumba]

I think you are the joke here.

Varyag has a much larger surface area on deck and space below deck to hold more aircraft than the Indian carrier ever could as it is larger and heavier.

Please stop embarrasing your country with your words.

this argument is flawed .... a 30Ton fighter on a 60K Ton ship cant take off with full load of either weapons or fuel ... and specially with WS-10 engine which doesnt give it true power... so a J-15 will be working on its 50-60 % potential ...

but a Mig-29K with better power will be working on full strength ... this is wat matters ...

 

[Urbanized Greyhound]

I think you are the joke here.

Varyag has a much larger surface area on deck and space below deck to hold more aircraft than the Indian carrier ever could as it is larger and heavier.

Please stop embarrasing your country with your words.

Dude check whether Varyag can adequately protect itself from our subs and AF bases when it comes anywhere close to Bay of Bengal .5 or 6 extra J10B's or J11s are nothing compared to the 50+ MKI's that can be housed in the Andaman AF base .

India to upgrade 2 fighter bases in Andamans - Indian Express


As for holding more or less aircraft , in naval warfare we first check whether the Carrier Battle group escort ( frigates , Destroyers , Subs --having ASW capabilities , anti ship missiles etc ) is upto the mark. An AC by itself is a sitting duck. Without serious Anti sub capability in the form of 2-3 frigates or destroyers , Our Kilo class subs armed with Klubs can render it unfit for further battle.

 

[brational]

I have heard from other forums of the Chinese intention to start building 100,000 tonne suoercarriers by 2013 and ready to be launched by 2018, which will mean they will be ready by 2020 for operations.

Now why i think this is a real possibility? It is do with intentions and capabiity .

China pretty much has all the escorts available now to provide suppport for an aircraft carrier. Expect the Varyag to be escorted by Type-052C+(at least 2 have been launched in the last year) and also the Type-093 SSN. Now while this would be a formidable battlegroup as far as Asia is concerned it would be nothing compared to a US supercarrier battlegroup. Only the Type-052C+ will come close to matching the equivalent US destroyers escorting the US carriers. Both the carrier and the Type-093SSN will be much inferior to the US equivalents.

Now China will almost certainly have follow ons to the Type-052C and the Type-093SSNs most probably around the middle of this decade. These will be much more suitable to escort any future 100,000 tonne supercarrier that China can produce as their technololy levels will be closer to that of the US equivalents.

Since China can pretty much build a supercarrier as it can easily build nuclear reactors as they would most probably use several of a newer version that they already use on their Type-093SSN, they just need the intention. China most probably will surpass the US to become the largest economy in the world by 2020(even quicker at GDP PPP), and it would feel that it either needs to or must build a Navy that could match the US's in every respect. Supercarriers would be a part of this. The world's largest economy will end up building the world's largest military eventually.

Building Super Carriers, Operating them in their respective waters are quite fancy to hear and imagine.. But entering some other nation's water is not a joke.. Even US do not dare to send its ac or cbg to russian waters.. China definitely can build 50 supercarriers, but if they r thinking to control Indian water means a suicide attempt made by them.. Moreover India does not require any supercarriers to protect its own territory, neither it wants to show the power to anyone at the moment.. You guys keep analysing these things and encourage China to build more and gift you one.. We will see what to do with them in Indian Waters..