new pakistan military helicopters?

[DANGER-ZONE]

then where we hav to go for advance tecnologies for new attack helicopter.
we are currently engaged with jf17,first we have to coplete our task for 250 or 150.then it is possible that we start any other aircraft project from initial levels qand it will take longggg time.COBRAs will not go for so long,i guess.
after that if we start any other project in middle of jf17 production,a lot of mony would be needed for it,this is a big problem.
so in my opinion,it is good if we purchase hellicopter by the money that will be used for different tests on helis.

 

[muse]

Dz

We already have Kamra, what we need is a division in Kamra can can win small contracts, slowly developing an institutional competence in the various component structures and systems.

Does PA or PAF perform it's own engine rebuilt for Mi17? for any helipcopter in itheir inventory? Manufacture any rotors or assembly?

 

[araz]

Dz

We already have Kamra, what we need is a division in Kamra can can win small contracts, slowly developing an institutional competence in the various component structures and systems.

Does PA or PAF perform it's own engine rebuilt for Mi17? for any helipcopter in itheir inventory? Manufacture any rotors or assembly?

I remember reading somewhere there are facilities in Multan for rebuilding/repairing helicopters especially Cobras. i do not know about MI17s but guess it would be at the same site.
What I really want to see is dual use industrial development that can then be kept going both for civilian and military roles. There needs to be a policy implementation in this regard.
WaSalam
Araz

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

still a problem ENGINS.???
we cannot built engines???

 

[araz]

still a problem ENGINS.???
we cannot built engines???

Danger Zone
You wont be able to build a helicopter engine for another 2-3 decades. The point is , do you actually need to. It would be easier to get one from somewhere.
Araz

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

i started this thread b4 pakistan made any deal for any new attack helicopters.
now i hve seen it on many places that Pakistan is going for tiger helicopter,some people says that "its not".!
what is the truth then?

 

[Arsalan]

it was just our media's breaking news saga that have created this confusion!!
the news was that french showed that they have no problem if PA want to go for Tiger and they will happily supply them to us. infact the offer itself was a part of lucrative package that intended to capture orders for Subs, JF components and there the tiger was also on the list but only if PA feel to have them!!
but sadly the media report suggested that french and pakistan have finalized the tiger deal. it was from the same deal that the report of nuclear power cooperation emerged out which later turned out to be as offer to improve security of nucler assets ans nothing to do wiht nuclear power generation.
saying all this it is not that PA is not goint for tiger at any cost, it may be on cards but there are many other option available so it may not be the first choice specially keeping in mind there high price!!

i hope you are not confsed anymore,

regards!

 

[fatman17]

Dz

We already have Kamra, what we need is a division in Kamra can can win small contracts, slowly developing an institutional competence in the various component structures and systems.

Does PA or PAF perform it's own engine rebuilt for Mi17? for any helipcopter in itheir inventory? Manufacture any rotors or assembly?

the PAA has the capability to overhaul every helo in its inventory - but when it comes to upgrades like the recent upgrades of the PUMA, the helo's have to be sent to the supplier / manufacturer.

in this regard Kamra is ahead of the PAA central workshop's

 

[flameboard]

We need helicopters to fight militancy but that should not be our primary goals. The fight with Taliban has to end someday, and then what all those helicopters are going to be a expensive pieces of useless technology. We must get ones that can be used against a country such as India. It would be in the best interest if whatever helicopter Pakistan got it got transfer of technology 100% that way even if they are only anti-militancy helicopters we can upgrade them to be used in international warfare.

 

[zavis2003]

pakistan should focus on the transfer of technology .
TOT is not an easy thing you must fulfill some requirments regarding TOT of any such things
the things pakistan need the most is that
its matellury engineering need to be superb
its electronics engineering should be such that it can dissolve the technology of upcoming TOTs pakistan private sector should be involve in it thats will boost the thing in the right direction
national aviation industry is in saturation and it is has through out the k8 assembly line from the PAC kamra and we need more infra structure of all kind
mechanically we should be potent enough to get the TOT and be able to do some chemistry with that
we at this stage is not able to handle the TOT thats why PAF once refused the TOT of gripppen but we need that we need to make our own crafts and be able to make new versions from that things the second part of this last sentence is really a very important
If we wont do that we wont improve our all industries we wont be able to get advantages of TOT and i wanna give you the example of agusta we have its technology and still looking for the u214 why because we are not able to make changes in the design coz of lack of skilled guys and infrastrructure and that s y this agusta technology is really of no use for us any more and we will look always here and there
if we wont improve

 

[Donatello]

the PAA has the capability to overhaul every helo in its inventory - but when it comes to upgrades like the recent upgrades of the PUMA, the helo's have to be sent to the supplier / manufacturer.

in this regard Kamra is ahead of the PAA central workshop's

It's more to do with the business.

You cannot modify a military equipment unless approved by the manufacturer. Obviously you can forcefully do it, but then you will lose future support with the manufacturer.


Kamra still couldn't upgrade F-16s, we are sending them to Turkey and US.

 

[somebozo]

How about co-op with Turkey, China, Ukrane and Czech Republic?

 

[Tajdar adil]

im a little bit late b/c my service disconected rit after i wrote the last post just because i didnt write INSHALLAH.well wat ever

KA 50/52---DETAILS
HISTORY:
First Flight (Ka-50) 27 June 1982
(Ka-50N) 5 March 1997
(Ka-52) 25 June 1997
Service Entry

28 August 1995


CREW: (Ka-50) 1 pilot
(Ka-52) 1 pilot and 1 weapons officer


ESTIMATED COST:

484 million rubles (approx. $15 million) as of May 2009


AIRFOIL SECTIONS:
Rotor Blade Root unknown
Rotor Blade Tip

unknown


DIMENSIONS:
Length 52.50 ft (16.00 m) rotors turning
49.21 ft (15.00 m) ignoring rotors
Rotor Diameter 47.57 ft (14.50 m)
Wingspan 24.08 ft (7.34 m)
Height 16.17 ft (4.93 m) to top of rotor head
Rotor Disk Area

3,555.0 ft2 (330.26 m2)


WEIGHTS:
Empty 16,955 lb (7,690 kg)
Typical Load (Ka-50) 21,605 lb (9,800 kg)
(Ka-52) 22,930 lb (10,400 kg)
Max Takeoff 23,810 lb (10,800 kg)
Fuel Capacity internal: 495 gal (1,870 L)
external: up to 580 gal (2,200 L) in four 145 gal (550 L) underwing tanks
Max Payload

6,615 lb (3,000 kg)
3,995 lb (1,810 kg) of expendable weapons


PROPULSION:
Powerplant two Klimov TV3-117VMA turboshafts
Thrust 4,400 hp (3,280 kW)


PERFORMANCE:
Max Level Speed at altitude: unknown
at sea level: 195 mph (310 km/h)
cruise speed: 170 mph (270 km/h)
sideways: 45 mph (70 km/h)
backwards: 55 mph (90 km/h)
dive speed: 215 mph (350 km/h)
Maximum Climb Rate 1,970 ft (600 m) / min
Service Ceiling 18,030 ft (5,500 m)
Hover Ceiling
(out of ground effect) (Ka-50) 13,125 ft (4,000 m)
(Ka-52) 11,810 ft (3,600 m)
Range typical: 250 nm (460 km)
ferry: 625 nm (1,160 km)
Endurance unknown
g-Limits (Ka-50) +3.5
(Ka-52) +3


ARMAMENT:
Gun one 2A42 30-mm cannon (500 rds max, 280 rds typical)
Stations 2 stub-wings with 4 hardpoints and 2 wingtip hardpoints
Air-to-Air Missile R-60/AA-8 Aphid, R-73/AA-11 Archer, Igla-V
Air-to-Surface Missile up to 12 AT-9 Ataka or AT-16 Vikhr anti-tank, Kh-25ML/AS-10 Karen anti-radiation, Kh-25MP/AS-12 Kegler
Bomb FAB-250/500, KAB-500Kr
Other up to four 20-round B-8 80-mm rocket pods, up to four 5-round 122-mm rocket pods, UPK-23-250 gun pod, GUV-8700 machine gun pod, PLAB weapons dispenser, chaff/flare pods


KNOWN VARIANTS:
Ka-50 'Hokum-A' Single-seat attack helicopter; 12 built by 1994
Ka-50N Night attack model with a FLIR/LLTV/laser designator system located in the nose, may also be equipped with a mast-mounted radar
Ka-52 'Hokum-B' Two-seat model equipped for command and control as well as combat reconnaissance
Ka-52 trainer Two-seat trainer model
Ka-52 EW Electronic warfare model equipped with jamming equipment

Well KA 50 is Russian and i dont thing that Russian will give this to us....

 

[fatman17]

Dz

We already have Kamra, what we need is a division in Kamra can can win small contracts, slowly developing an institutional competence in the various component structures and systems.

Does PA or PAF perform it's own engine rebuilt for Mi17? for any helipcopter in itheir inventory? Manufacture any rotors or assembly?

they can perform normal 'overhauls' - no upgrades

 

[fatman17]

new helos in the pipeline

10 - Mi-17I's from ulan-ude.
30 - Bell-412P under FMS/CISF
12 - AH-1Z Super-Cobras under FMS/CISF