New Iranian Assault rifle and Submachine gun shown at 15th IPAS Exhibition

[Indus Pakistan]

His problem is not with the technical aspects of the discussion or the veracity of the arguments. People who are genuinely interested to know ask questions and don't start off by launching into gross generalizations and labeling things.

His problem is something else...

I frankly don't know much about military hardware but I certainly hope Iran and all Muslim countries in this region make some damn progress. I don't want to hear the latest fatwa or some Mullah's rubbish. At the end of day we need science and technology. I know Iran has done good on the education front and as that always feeds into developing the scientific talent I expect good things out of Iran.

I know your thinking is like mine on religion but I had to use "Muslim countries" as we are still stuck in the "Christiandom" phase. That nomenclature changed to "Europe" when secularism gained ground. We still have to wait for our time.

 

[django]

Iran is an advanced nation in many future-like science and techs today...why do you think it is impossible for Iran to build these SAM or SIM stuff? You need to change your mindset... It is slavery mindset and unfortunately rooted deep inside many of Muslim people... This is exactly Westerner's main weapon to make you believe you're no where close in superior stuff.... When Iran managed to become among the pioneers of many cutting edge sciences (bio, nano, stem cells,etc) in less than decades why it is so unbelievable for you to believe otherwise?

When somebody comes counter-analyse or reject a product or tech, it is acceptable only when he/she can bring logical evidences, links and their rational relationship... Nobody can predict the quality of FUTURE products or techs of a country... As few other advanced nations today were somehow lagging behind in many fields...

It is also stupid to relate A to B when there is not absolute connection between them... For example, if Russia can not build a decent competitive car (which things apparently are changing today for Russian cars too) does this really mean, Russia is not capable of building cars technologically? When they are advanced in even more advanced techs, it is childish to think, it is impossible for Russians to produce a world class car...

The way you come here talk none sense here is only making you seem a child with few or no info about things that you talk about... People laugh at you...

For the last time, building a 5th gen fighter jet takess decades for a country like USA.. Why don't you wait for at least a decade for Iran to see how capable they are? Am I too irrational to you?

Please don't share your secret Intel or divine predictions about Iranian tech and science level and quality in FUTURE while you clearly have little or no info about her today level...


Are you joking, trying to seem funny or you're serious!!? After reading all Western and Eastern reports posted here, you came to this point!?

Scythian sir it is all about EXPERIENCE do you know how long the Indians have been trying to perfect the Kaveri engine,decades yet it is still a dud despite a heavy injection of money and despite the fact their has been no embargo on the Indians so they can bring in major tech from abroad but still very little progress. You may wonder that Indians have been the first nation to successfully send a probe to mars on their first attempt (and that too on a tiny budget relative to others) how could they not possibly build a jet engine, the facts are they have not mastered the crucial technologies necessary to succeed in this endeavor.
I am not denying the fact that Iranians have some very impressive human resources, I will concede more so than Pakistan, I was thoroughly impressed in the manner in which they hacked into the US drone, the way they blinded a US spy satellite using laser technology, being the first Islamic nation to put a satellite into orbit, having produced gems like Maryam Mirzkhani, etc, but my dear chap it all comes down to decades and decades of experience in RD, massive funding and no sanctions, you cannot run before you walk as they say, I presume you and the likes of Soheil have a decent education behind you yet you are still convinced by these Iranian claims so what does that say about the carpet weaver in Isfahan, he will surely think Iran is on par with the US and sing the Hosannas of the revolution. Kudos

His problem is not with the technical aspects of the discussion or the veracity of the arguments. People who are genuinely interested to know ask questions and don't start off by launching into gross generalizations and labeling things.

His problem is something else...

@bozorgmehr My problem is that I believe your stealth fighter is as authentic as the spaghetti monster. have a good day sir.

 

[SOHEIL]

Stupid are those that think (and believe me their are many on this forum) that Iran can produce SAMs superior to the S-300, build fifth gen stealth fighters and produce drones that are as capable as the cutting edge US drones. According to you and the likes of @SOHEIL anyone who disagree with these pretentious Iranian claims is stupid, so sir I suppose by your definition I am truly stupid.kudos

@bozorgmehr My problem is that I believe your stealth fighter is as authentic as the spaghetti monster. have a good day sir.

Please show me the "stealth fighter" !

 

[django]

Please show me the "stealth fighter" !

Now you did ask me. so dont feel embarrassed lol

 

[SOHEIL]

Now you did ask me. so dont feel embarrassed lol

You gonna feel embarrassed not me !

 

[warfareknow]

Many turks and pakis I like but some of them are
either really jealous or dumb

 

[django]

Many turks and pakis I like but some of them are
either really jealous or dumb

My dear chap I beg to differ.

 

[bozorgmehr]

I frankly don't know much about military hardware but I certainly hope Iran and all Muslim countries in this region make some damn progress. I don't want to hear the latest fatwa or some Mullah's rubbish. At the end of day we need science and technology. I know Iran has done good on the education front and as that always feeds into developing the scientific talent I expect good things out of Iran.

I know your thinking is like mine on religion but I had to use "Muslim countries" as we are still stuck in the "Christiandom" phase. That nomenclature changed to "Europe" when secularism gained ground. We still have to wait for our time.

The way I see it, at this point the impediment is not a technological one. Yes the Iranian educational system focuses on math and sciences and the difference is palpable for anybody who goes to study abroad. But the system really fails when it comes to social and human sciences... things like writing, social studies, critical thinking skills, etc.... And the results of that can also be easily observed within the Iranian society. Why the Iranian educational system looks down upon the humanities so much is I believe a combination of general cultural ignorance at the popular level and a religious government that for obvious reasons doesn't see much of an incentive in promoting critical thinking among its populace. But regardless of the cause, that translates into a society that has a tendency to sit and stagnate, one that is extremely slow in addressing gross inefficiencies, one that has a hard time reasoning its way out of problems, one that has difficulty building frameworks within which others can participate and cause growth..... And the symptoms of these shortcomings abound throughout the Iranian society, from the car industry, to the Iranian football premier league, to the way defense projects and procurements are handled, to the Iranian court system and the bureaucratic nightmare you have to deal with to get anything done in Iran.

For example, there are more than half a dozen piecemeal add-on projects on the books for AH-1 Cobra helicopter. Yet not one comprehensive upgrade program with clear requirements has been identified and put together to keep these birds competitive.

I'm not saying we're terminally stuck with these problems. As a matter of fact, I'm very optimistic and hopeful about the mid to long term future of Iran. What's happened since the revolution is that we've shielded ourselves from foreign domination and the brutal and destructive foreign interventions that were commonplace in most of the19th and 20th centuries. There's no question in the fact that We've lifted ourselves by our bootstraps and won a couple of rounds against foreign powers. And in the process we've bought ourselves some breathing room. But soon will begin the more difficult work of asking ourselves some fundamental questions that will put us on the path not only to survive but to thrive.

 

[bozorgmehr]

@bozorgmehr My problem is that I believe your stealth fighter is as authentic as the spaghetti monster. have a good day sir.

Well I have my doubts and criticisms as well. So do most Iranians, in case you didn't know... We are entitled to our opinions. I'm not questioning that. What I have a problem with is your gross generalization and pre-judgemental attitude coming in. I mean why even bother if your mind is already made up? If you go through life with that attitude, you will learn very little through your journey. This is a thread about the latest the latest service rifle variant. Why don't you learn about it a little first, before dismissing everything out of hand? That's what I meant by the stupid attitude...

 

[kollang]

The way I see it, at this point the impediment is not a technological one. Yes the Iranian educational system focuses on math and sciences and the difference is palpable for anybody who goes to study abroad. But the system really fails when it comes to social and human sciences... things like writing, social studies, critical thinking skills, etc.... And the results of that can also be easily observed within the Iranian society. Why the Iranian educational system looks down upon the humanities so much is I believe a combination of general cultural ignorance at the popular level and a religious government that for obvious reasons doesn't see much of an incentive in promoting critical thinking among its populace. But regardless of the cause, that translates into a society that has a tendency to sit and stagnate, one that is extremely slow in addressing gross inefficiencies, one that has a hard time reasoning its way out of problems, one that has difficulty building frameworks within which others can participate and cause growth..... And the symptoms of these shortcomings abound throughout the Iranian society, from the car industry, to the Iranian football premier league, to the way defense projects and procurements are handled, to the Iranian court system and the bureaucratic nightmare you have to deal with to get anything done in Iran.

For example, there are more than half a dozen piecemeal add-on projects on the books for AH-1 Cobra helicopter. Yet not one comprehensive upgrade program with clear requirements has been identified and put together to keep these birds competitive.

I'm not saying we're terminally stuck with these problems. As a matter of fact, I'm very optimistic and hopeful about the mid to long term future of Iran. What's happened since the revolution is that we've shielded ourselves from foreign domination and the brutal and destructive foreign interventions that were commonplace in most of the19th and 20th centuries. There's no question in the fact that We've lifted ourselves by our bootstraps and won a couple of rounds against foreign powers. And in the process we've bought ourselves some breathing room. But soon will begin the more difficult work of asking ourselves some fundamental questions that will put us on the path not only to survive but to thrive.

Excellent post.

 

[django]

[QUOTE="bozorgmehr, post: 7759258, member: 12446"]Well I have my doubts and criticisms as well. So do most Iranians, in case you didn't know... We are entitled to our opinions. I'm not questioning that. What I have a problem with is your gross generalization and pre-judgemental attitude coming in. I mean why even bother if your mind is already made up? If you go through life with that attitude, you will learn very little through your journey. This is a thread about the latest the latest service rifle variant. Why don't you learn about it a little first, before dismissing everything out of hand? That's what I meant by the stupid attitude...[/QUOTE]


Finally I have discovered an objective Iranian on this forum.kudos sir, you seem to be a sincere individual, the others epitomised by Soheil have a very arrogant condescending attitude. BTW I have read up on your rifle, we shall have to see if it is inducted for that will be the true test of this variant.kudos

 

[Indus Pakistan]

The way I see it, at this point the impediment is not a technological one. Yes the Iranian educational system focuses on math and sciences and the difference is palpable for anybody who goes to study abroad. But the system really fails when it comes to social and human sciences... things like writing, social studies, critical thinking skills, etc.... And the results of that can also be easily observed within the Iranian society. Why the Iranian educational system looks down upon the humanities so much is I believe a combination of general cultural ignorance at the popular level and a religious government that for obvious reasons doesn't see much of an incentive in promoting critical thinking among its populace. But regardless of the cause, that translates into a society that has a tendency to sit and stagnate, one that is extremely slow in addressing gross inefficiencies, one that has a hard time reasoning its way out of problems, one that has difficulty building frameworks within which others can participate and cause growth..... And the symptoms of these shortcomings abound throughout the Iranian society, from the car industry, to the Iranian football premier league, to the way defense projects and procurements are handled, to the Iranian court system and the bureaucratic nightmare you have to deal with to get anything done in Iran.

For example, there are more than half a dozen piecemeal add-on projects on the books for AH-1 Cobra helicopter. Yet not one comprehensive upgrade program with clear requirements has been identified and put together to keep these birds competitive.

I'm not saying we're terminally stuck with these problems. As a matter of fact, I'm very optimistic and hopeful about the mid to long term future of Iran. What's happened since the revolution is that we've shielded ourselves from foreign domination and the brutal and destructive foreign interventions that were commonplace in most of the19th and 20th centuries. There's no question in the fact that We've lifted ourselves by our bootstraps and won a couple of rounds against foreign powers. And in the process we've bought ourselves some breathing room. But soon will begin the more difficult work of asking ourselves some fundamental questions that will put us on the path not only to survive but to thrive.

Well I would agree that social sciences are also important. There seems to be a connect between extremism and scientists. I am not saying that the former is product of the latter. No. What I have noticed is many graduates in sciences have drifted into extremism when you would think that modern education would open the mind and create immunity to radical thinking. However I have observed - albeit anecodtal that science does not prevent many to seek solace in Mullah prescriptions for modern lifes complex problems. These tend to be binary. Do's and don'ts. Evil and good.

Now I m going to make some observation on Iran and take some liberties. I accept I am far from Iran expert so do forgive me if I am off mark. I would not intrude into this but I think most Iranian members know that I have enormous respect for Iran and thus will not regard what I say as attack on Iran.

My view is that science should be the primary focus of any developing country. Social science etc is luxury of more developed countries. If you look at Russia pre war or even Far Eastern countries science and heavy industry recieved primary focus. Everything else came secondary to that. So Iran has done good on that score. Now of course you have the oppurtunity to develop social sciences and nurture critical and free thinking.

I think Iran was fortunate in having Shah at the time you had despite his many flaws. He managed to lay certain foundation in your country on top of which the revolutionary Iran has been built. If Shah had not moved Iran out of medieval thinking then Iran in a arrested state of develoment coupled with Mullahdom would have been a nightmare. You can see what might have been in some less developed parts of Pakistan where ignorence plus medievalism plus illiteracy plus mullahdom have created a deadly cocktail. The example of thinking that has turned against polio vaccination is an example.

In Iran by the time Mullah's took over Iran had already made significant progress in social development and as such the introduction of mullahdom had lesser damage then might have been otherwise. Your mullahs had to preach to a more educated flock that was more aware of the modern world.

However today my feeling is Iran is overreacting to the injustice of the past. She is behaving like a victim of crime who over compensates and in doing so lets the abuser win. If I was Iranian I would want Iran to be more pragmatic and bend and flex more in order to tap into the vast resources Iran has that could articulate Iran into the first world. A France on the Persian Gulf? Yes I think with all the oil Iran has, the educated labour force that is very possible. However Iran has to let go of the past and not live hostage to history. The best punishment to your abusers is success even if it comes at price of compromise.

You have Japan and Germany as examples which have achieved much despite compromise to a former foe. And this has NOT made them diminish in any way.

 

[Henry ME 95]

There is no point in having a proper debate with an uneducated lunatic. Insted of posting your clearly biased comment regarding the Turkish defence industry how about you take that time to educate yourself regarding both Turkish and Iranian defence industry. Do that, apologize for your ignorant views and hyprocricy then we might have a proper discussion. Be a good lad and move along.

How on earth was that two sided and how does your head even work if you honestly think that.
Two you calling me an "uneducated lunatic" with your broken English is both a comedy and a tragedy (but mostly a comedy) in addition a typical lunatic would post a dead child as a profile picture.
Three I have a rule. If you haven't fired a gun you have no right to talk about a gun. Have you fired any AR-15 or M-16? Probably not.
Also *instead

nearly every western country uses AR platform , ex. HK-416 , Sig Sauer 516 , even the Ukrainians use AR platform for their special forces.
if you want a direct M-16 copy , you can go to the first page of this thread and come across one

I would say MPT is more similar to HK-417

Didn't say we didn't do it also.

 

[yavar]

 

[SOHEIL]

Finally I have discovered an objective Iranian on this forum.kudos sir, you seem to be a sincere individual, the others epitomised by Soheil have a very arrogant condescending attitude. BTW I have read up on your rifle, we shall have to see if it is inducted for that will be the true test of this variant.kudos

So this is the way you wanna play