New Delhi will only discuss Pakistan-controlled Kashmir, says Indian envoy

[Stephen Cohen]

In that case lets have another fresh wave of freedom fighters strikes and perhaps another Kargil.

Try it ; but ten DONT cry when our TANKS enter LAHORE and Sialkot

And our Sukhois Scream over Islamabad and Rawalpindi

 

[Rajaraja Chola]

LOL. In that case Pakistan should report UN; India not interested in solving dispute; bring back Kashmir to UN disputed territory list. It is India itself, who welcomed UN decision of solving Kashmir dispute bilaterally.

Pakistan can't do anything militarily or diplomatically

Whole Muslim world, China, Russia stand behind Pakistan. Who is with you?

 

[karakoram]

Try it ; but ten DONT cry when our TANKS enter LAHORE and Sialkot

And our Sukhois Scream over Islamabad and Rawalpindi

Kakay itni sunny deol ki filmein nah dekha ker its bad for health lolz

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Kakay itni sunny deol ki filmein nah dekha ker its bad for health lolz

Bhai jaan ; you got away VERY lightly in Kargil

 

[karakoram]

Bhai jaan ; you got away VERY lightly in Kargil

Lolzzz thanks for reminding and we got away very lightly in mumbai attacks as well thank you mighty Indians for sparing us

 

[Stephen Cohen]

Lolzzz thanks for reminding and we got away very lightly in mumbai attacks as well thank you mighty Indians for sparing us

Yes you are right ; BUT bakrey ki ma kab tak khair manaygi

 

[Gen Padmanabhan]

That particular Indian argument has also been addressed in the discussion I linked to.

Sorry for asking the larger than life argument.

 

[Kashmiri Pandit]

Will some one Clear ?

Real Kashmiries are those Who live in Valley . Jammu and Ladakh People are not Kashmiris .

So how come people living in the area controlled by Pakistan are called Azad Kashmiris , when most of that area coincides with Jammu Division .
How come they are Kashmiris when they have no similarities with Koshur speaking Kashmiries , except for religion ?

 

[saiyan0321]

What would India do if Pakistan keeps on ranting about talks... During the UN General meeting, there were cross border firing... Pakistan was crying so loud and accused India for the violations, after the meeting all the cross border firings stopped.

So what did India get by disturbing the LOC Cease fire during UN talks. Let people with some common sense come to their own conclusion.

For heaven sake, We are NOT interested to gift any part of our land with Pakistan or any others. Accept LOC as International Border and move on!

Talks on equal terms. Never on a singular subject. The last time the talks failed bcz they were on a single a subject and that resulted in great bitterness. If India again pursues this motive of no talk on Indian held Kashmir and only talks on Pakistan administered Kashmir than the talks will fail miserably again and the two nations will never be able to establish peace this way.

The fact remains that although both nations cannot afford a fight as iy can result in nuclear but they will never just easily give up their claim on the others held Kashmir... So we shall try to discuss this through again and again and reach no conclusion... Maybe five hundred years from now Kashmir may become IB but for now it won't...

Well considering we can't even solve small issues like sir creek and siachin so Kashmir is out of the picture...

Not talking on equal terms will create even more delay.

 

[Burhan Wani]

So Kabaili tribes man are your forefather. From the old Kashmiri man I heard, they were so furious that they start eating sheeps and goats before they died. Your forefather reached Barahmulla 20 KM away from Srinagar till they were fighting the underpower, under equipped army of J&K, who were fighting with even Lathis, but after the Maharaja signed the tready to officially joined india, Indian army landed in Srinagar Airfield, and your forefather were on the Run, with Tails bellow their Legs. It was the Mistake of Pt. Jawahar Lal Nehru to go to UN for peace, otherwise, the whole illegal occupation would have been taken back without any doubt. On topic baby, I am half Kashmiri, and don't live in dellusion, its the Indian Army, which is very professional and controlled by the civillian govt, but be sure than, when the order is been given by the civilian govt to go ahead, within 1 week there will be no raining camp along the Muzzafrabad, and in 20 days the illegal occupied land be be merged with India. And why only Dogra Regiment, you will know the efficiency of JAKLIC Jammu and Kashmir Light Infentory Riffles. Its not called Guts to do Covert Operations and Covert Terrorists, but a Coward, Cunning Act.

Still living in delusional whether calling IVC, Indian heritage yours or Osama, Bin Qasem your forefather. Trying to prove the two nation theory justified, which have been bluffed 65 years ago, when India declared to be Secular nation, and not a Hindu nation.

Don't make yourself a fool.I am talking about those ex British army officers and jawans turned freedom fighters against Mahraja Hari singh. Yes a secular nation where people kill beef consumers publicly,where a prime minister is alleged murderer, dozen separatist movements against your country with completely different ideologies.
Have a look and stop dreaming about AJK better care about your dying soldiers in occupied territory. lolz
Founder of 5 AK Regiment: Lt col Sher Khan Shaheed 9th July 1948
Dogra Army Strong Hold,Hindu Temple, Hussain Khan Forces (3 AKRF Regiment), Battle of Rawalakot 1947
Martyrdom Anniversary: Captain Hussain Khan Shaheed 11th Nov 1947

 

[zebra7]

Don't make yourself a fool.

You are making Fool of yourself and living in dreams and propaganda history.

It should be noted that Pakistan denied at first his any military involvement and said its an freedom fighters and Kabaili attack for independence.

I am talking about those ex British army officers and jawans turned freedom fighters against Mahraja Hari singh. Yes a secular nation where people kill beef consumers publicly,where a prime minister is alleged murderer, dozen separatist movements against your country with completely different ideologies.
Have a look and stop dreaming about AJK better care about your dying soldiers in occupied territory. lolz

The Kashmir State Forces consisted of nine infantry battalions out of which had the communal ratio of 22.2 % Muslim, 5.5 % Sikh and 55.55 % Dogra.

Talking of 350 Dogra fighters against, with 50% muslim compositions against 2000 so called freedom fighters.
Lets check what unbiased Pakistani Officers says about all this saga and Guts and Military Powness you was crying for

Full text of "THE 1947-48 Kashmir War The war of lost opportunities"

Excerts

General Akbar Khan (then Lieutenant Colonel) met the tribals at Uri on 8th
November .The tribals questioned Akbar about why Pakistan Government was
behaving so spinelessly and not assisting them with artillery/regular troop
support etc.Akbar Khan had no answer and tried to explain the legal position or



simply lack of guts in the Pakistani political leadership and lack of guts
in most the Pakistan Army's Muslim officers, except few indomitable men like
Major Tommy Masud to risk their commissions by disobeying orders of the
British C-in-C and showing some initiative (authors opinion in italics) 33.



According to General Akbar Khan the tribesmen were so demoralised and
disappointed by lack of Pakistan Army support that they withdrew from the
frontline opposite Baramula on 3 1st October and 10th November, and
withdrew to Uri area, contemplating about returning to the tribal area34. Had
the Indians possesses sufficient resolution or a commander with coup d oeil
there was nothing stopping them from capturing Muzaffarabad between 3 1 st
October and 1 0th November. The same viewpoint is advanced by the official
history35.

While Nehru boldly visited frontlines in Kashmir during the
war ,Pakistans prime minister Liaquat Ali Khan dared not

visit Kashmir till after cease fire.Extreme left Brigadier

Akbar Khan ,the only Pakistani observer who noted this fact

in his monumental book "Raiders in Kashmir"

While Nehru boldly visited frontlines in Kashmir during the
war ,Pakistans prime minister Liaquat Ali Khan dared not

visit Kashmir till after cease fire.Extreme left Brigadier

Akbar Khan ,the only Pakistani observer who noted this fact

in his monumental book "Raiders in Kashmir"

The Indians were lucky in having Thimaya (a South Indian) who believed in leading from the
front. Thimaya personally flew an air recce mission over the Pass on 15th Octoberl09. Meanwhile
snow fall had started and this resulted in postponing date of attack from 25 October to 1st November.
Finally on 01 November the tanks, Thimaya in the leading tankl 10 attacked the Pass leading two
infantry battalions in the attack on the Zojila. No army in the world could have stopped these
juggernauts without anti tank guns and the Gilgit Scouts were forced to abandon the Pass which they
had successfully held since July 1948. Following this great technological success nothing could stop
the 77 Para Brigade.




Thus Dras was captured on 15th November and Kargil on 23rd November 1 11. The small Gilgit
Scouts force blocking Leh was forced to withdraw and Leh was relieved. There is no doubt that
employment of tanks at Zojila was the wars greatest strategic surprise, and a non armour officer was
its architect.The Indian Army owes its possession of Ladakh through which it later infiltrated into
Siachen Glacier to Thimaya's genius and to 7th Light Cavalry. There were tanks and armoured cars
on the other side also,but were not used because the extremely naive and miserly political leadership
trusted a Britisher who had no interest in the war.

By 23rd November the Indians were firmly in possession of Ladakh,had secured Poonch for eternity
and were no longer in a state of imbalance which had plagued them since October 1947.
The Pakistani political leadership at last realised that an effort must be made to at least assume a
more threatening posture,failing which the Indians emboldened by their success at Poonch and Zojila
may attempt an offensive operation which may bring them yet closer to the Kashmir-Pakistan
international borderl 12. It may be noted that area south of Poonch is mostly below 5,000 ft and
operations in this area are not severely restricted unlike the higher area in the north because of heavy
snowfall.Keeping this fact in view the Pakistani GHQ felt that an Indian advance towards Mirpur and
Bhimbhar was likely unless the Pakistan Army now at last assumed a more responsible and offensive
posture. We will now deal with the famous 'Operation Venus' which was given the shape of a
political controversy by two gentlemen,one an army officer and the other a civil servant! By mid



November the Pakistani political leadership at last realised that a more active military policy must be
adopted in Kashmir. Finally the civilian political leadership was moved from its state of supreme
lethargy and indecision and gave the army its first responsible political directive ; 'The Pakistan
Government therefore, directed the C-in-C that, subject only to the defence of West Pakistan
frontiers with India,the Pakistan Army was to prevent at all costs, the Indians from extending the area
of their occupation in the Jammu and Kashmir State' 113. This directive was issued in mid
November 1948 and following this the GHQ decided to move sizeable forces for offensive action in
Bhimbhar Sector in Kashmir. In addition the Pakistani Cabinet asked the C-in-C to 'examine in detail
the military implications of the proposed counterstroke' 1 14. Gracey proposed a counterstroke
involving an armoured brigade and infantry brigade originating from Bhimbhar area and directed at
Beri Pattan on the main Indian supply route from Akhnur to Nowshera-Rajauri and Poonchl 15. The
aim of the projected Operation Venus as the counterstroke was code named was not to recapture
Kashmir or even to recapture Poonch but in words of the official history of the Kashmir War to: —
'FORCE THE INDIANS TO SUE FOR AN IMMEDIATE CEASEFIRE ON THE BASIS OF THE
STATUS QUO AS THEIR RECENT OPERATIONS HAD INVOLVED THE MAXIMUM
EFFORT THEY WERE CAPABLE OF PUTTING FORTH AT THAT TIME.THE MANOEUVRES
NOW CONTEMPLATED WOULD INSTEAD OF PROLONGING THE FIGHT IN
KASHMIR,FORCE THE INDIANS TO TERMINATE THE CONFLICT' 116.

 

[Burhan Wani]

You are making Fool of yourself and living in dreams and propaganda history.

It should be noted that Pakistan denied at first his any military involvement and said its an freedom fighters and Kabaili attack for independence.


The Kashmir State Forces consisted of nine infantry battalions out of which had the communal ratio of 22.2 % Muslim, 5.5 % Sikh and 55.55 % Dogra.

Talking of 350 Dogra fighters against, with 50% muslim compositions against 2000 so called freedom fighters.
Lets check what unbiased Pakistani Officers says about all this saga and Guts and Military Powness you was crying for

Full text of "THE 1947-48 Kashmir War The war of lost opportunities"

Excerts


While Nehru boldly visited frontlines in Kashmir during the
war ,Pakistans prime minister Liaquat Ali Khan dared not

visit Kashmir till after cease fire.Extreme left Brigadier

Akbar Khan ,the only Pakistani observer who noted this fact

in his monumental book "Raiders in Kashmir"

I don't know why are you involving Nehru and Liaqat Ali Khan in it. It was a fight between Maharaja of J&K and Ex British Army Officers and jawans in the form of AKRF (Azad kashmir Regular Forces).
I am not denying about the involvement of Kabaili Lashkars, they came here as a reinforcement of Azad Kashmir Forces. My tribesmen are fighting this war from 1830 to get rid of Brutal Hindu ruler and they liberated their part without external help.
"The Azad Kashmir Regular Forces, established in 1947, were armed and supported by the Pakistani government. The regiment has the distinction of not having been raised by any government order, but "raised itself" when bands of armed WWII veterans organized themselves into disciplined ad hoc platoons, companies and battalions led by retired officers, JCOs and NCOs, and went out to fight in Kashmir against the Regular Indian Army in 1948. After a cease-fire was declared in Kashmir, these elements joined together to form the Azad Kashmir Regular Forces (AKRF). The AKRF had its own intake and training structure separate from the Pakistan Army. The AKRF was the military element of the Azad Kashmir Government. Uniforms and rank structures were the same as in the Pakistan Army. At that time, all the battalions of the AKRF were part of the 12th Infantry Division of the Pakistan Army, permanently stationed in Azad Kashmir."
Azad Kashmir Regiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[zebra7]

I don't know why are you involving Nehru and Liaqat Ali Khan in it. It was a fight between Maharaja of J&K and Ex British Army Officers and jawans in the form of AKRF (Azad kashmir Regular Forces).
I am not denying about the involvement of Kabaili Lashkars, they came here as a reinforcement of Azad Kashmir Forces. My tribesmen are fighting this war from 1830 to get rid of Brutal Hindu ruler and they liberated their part without external help.
"The Azad Kashmir Regular Forces, established in 1947, were armed and supported by the Pakistani government. The regiment has the distinction of not having been raised by any government order, but "raised itself" when bands of armed WWII veterans organized themselves into disciplined ad hoc platoons, companies and battalions led by retired officers, JCOs and NCOs, and went out to fight in Kashmir against the Regular Indian Army in 1948. After a cease-fire was declared in Kashmir, these elements joined together to form the Azad Kashmir Regular Forces (AKRF). The AKRF had its own intake and training structure separate from the Pakistan Army. The AKRF was the military element of the Azad Kashmir Government. Uniforms and rank structures were the same as in the Pakistan Army. At that time, all the battalions of the AKRF were part of the 12th Infantry Division of the Pakistan Army, permanently stationed in Azad Kashmir."
Azad Kashmir Regiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And why are you posting azad kashmir regiment from wiki, when the title of the thread is Delhi will discuss only pakistan controlled kashmir. Because thats the agenda left as far as Indian stands is concerned and the agenda of the talks.

 

[Burhan Wani]

And why are you posting azad kashmir regiment from wiki, when the title of the thread is Delhi will discuss only pakistan controlled kashmir. Because thats the agenda left as far as Indian stands is concerned and the agenda of the talks.

You were talking about Kabailis so much. I differentiated their role with facts.
Let us Talk about Azad Kashmir, our point of view is clear we liberated our area to get rid of Maharaja of Kashmir and after it we decided to liberated entire area from Maharaja's army. By Locals Dogra army was defeated very badly even they left their sophisticated weapons which was later used by Azad forces against their enemies (Both Indian army and Dogra Army).
When Maharaja announced his allegiance with India, morons of Dehli decided to take over J&K by landing their troops on ground. They occupied entire territory and killed innocent residents even no one left to take arm against them.
Azad Kashmir was liberated with armed struggle and we will take other parts with same tactics. No need to cry over militancy and infiltration it will remain as it is until withdrawal of Indian Army.

 

[zebra7]

Let us Talk about Azad Kashmir, our point of view is clear we liberated our area to get rid of Maharaja of Kashmir and after it we decided to liberated entire area from Maharaja's army. By Locals Dogra army was defeated very badly even they left their sophisticated weapons which was later used by Azad forces against their enemies (Both Indian army and Dogra Army).

In 1947, the Maharaja wants to remain independent not with India not with Pakistan. He was in two mind, first he don't want to join Pakistan, but all te roads, rail were connected to kashmir via Pakistan. There is huge cain of mountains between Jammu and Srinagar. And NH1 is still the lifeline of the J&K, because it is the only road connected with the rest of the India, the other road is the Manali-leh-Srinagar 400 km dangerous road which is only opened for 6 month in a year.

Pakistan might gets J&K, but he did the mistake by sending Kabaili infitrators and its own militia disguised as locals. Some of the locals muslims do join the armed struggle, but most of the Kashmiri were against the agression, not because they don't want to join Pakistan, but due the looting, and killings of the local residents. They reached Barahmulla just 20KM near the Srinagar, but till then Maharaja had sighned the treaty with the new delhi for joining the India, and it took 4 days of meetings. The first batch of Indian armed force reached with the airlifted just 120 Sikh regiment soldiers who landed in the only sole Srinagar airfield, and they were the one that fights to make sure it was opened for the other Indian backups. Had the Kabaili not indulge in lootings and killing, they could have reached Srinagar easily before Indian and, there was no proper road link up to the valley from the India connecting it with the India, which is 200 Km from the Jammu. Actually the total war was in 4 region Jammu, URI, Srinagar Valley, and Leh Ladakh reion, and its a very big region with remote areas, mountains, where tanks are not accessible.

When Maharaja announced his allegiance with India, morons of Dehli decided to take over J&K by landing their troops on ground. They occupied entire territory and killed innocent residents even no one left to take arm against them.

Wrong perception and history. It was the Kabaili that was killing the local resident, and this can be confirmed with the fact that P.Nehru gave the statement that he is ready for the Poll of the Kashmiri people, to decide whether they want to join India or Pakistan. If the Poll was done at that time, 100% Kashmiri would have voted for India. Ask Old Kashmiri they would tell the stories of the attrocities of the local tribes man.

Had Indian Army not indulge in humitarial aid, they would have occupied Muzzafrabaad.

Azad Kashmir was liberated with armed struggle and we will take other parts with same tactics. No need to cry over militancy and infiltration it will remain as it is until withdrawal of Indian Army.

The Best chance to acquire Kashmir with arm have been lost in 1947, Indian army after capturing Uri have make sure that the valley is secure. And the roads are better, now, with several projects running to connect the valley away from border. And Pakistani army don't have the Power to take the Kashmir, best they could do was the covert operation like Kargil. Indian stance on UN is very strong also.

And for you I make you clear, I have spend my half of life in Kashmir --Srinagar, Barahmullah, Udhampur, jammu, Leh. I know very well the ground realities. If any doubt ask me.