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New Delhi sees Bhutan as little more than potential protectorate

Maybe Bhutan knows that China is the only hope to help them to get their lost lands back.

Chennai Centre for China Studies » Bhutan’s Northern Border:China’s Bullying and Teasing Tactics

In response to the concerns of the Parliamentarians, the Secretary of International Boundaries Dasho Pema Wangchuk gave a detailed briefing on the current status of Bhutan-China boundary negotiations on 4th of December 2009.

What is note worthy is that the Secretary was very candid and did not try to hide from the members of the Parliament and the people on the difficulties encountered in negotiating with the Chinese and the deep intrusions being made by the Chinese regularly on its border.

This is quite in contrast to what the Indian people are treated in the matter of Chinese intrusions that are regularly taking place and the Ministry of External Affairs continues to claim that the so called intrusions are nothing but differences in “perception.”

The points made by Wangchuk on December 4th were

* In 2008, the Chinese soldiers intruded deep into Bhutanese territory and came to Bhutanese Army’s outpost at Lharigang in the Charithang valley. In the year 2009, the Chinese intruded 17 times up to the RBA post.

* In 2004, the Chinese started road construction work from the Langmorpo stream towards the Zuri ridge. After several protests and discussions at the foreign minister level, the Chinese stopped the construction work.

* However in August 2009, the Chinese have started the extension of the road construction work again between Zuri and Phuteogang ridge that overlooks the disputed Charithang valley. The Bhutanese government protested four times that year. The action of the Chinese was in violation of the 1998 agreement between China and Bhutan on the maintenance of peace and tranquility and also of the mutual acceptance to maintain the status quo as agreed to in March 1959..

The Secretary conceded that there are four areas in the western border that are being disputed by the Chinese and that would include Doklam, Charithang, Sinchulimpa and Dramana pasture land.

In the case of the disputed area of 495 Sq.km, in another sector in Bayul Pasanglung the Secretary said that China had conceded the territory as that of Bhutan in an overall package deal that was discussed then. The Secretary has maintained that the Chinese position in this area has been consistent. But what is important is that the Chinese are willing to give up the claim only when other aspects of the package deal are accepted and implemented. This included trade and progress in diplomatic relations that would include perhaps an embassy of theirs in Thimpu.

Some time in April last year, a brief history of the border talks- 1st to 18th. was presented to the Parliament The 19th session is due this January.

As before Bhutan government gave a frank over view and nothing was held back or made light of. The Foreign Minister personally briefed the National Assembly in response to the request made by the Member of Parliament of Haa that is close to the western border with China and his concerns about the Chinese intrusions.

The foreign minister briefed the Assembly frankly on the progress of the talks. He said as follows

* The first four rounds had focussed on discussions regarding the guidelines for boundary negotiations, based on the five principles of peaceful coexistence: mutual respect for sovereignty and territorial integrity, mutual non aggression, non interference in each other’s internal affairs, equality and mutual benefit and peaceful co existence.

* In the fifth round of May 1988, the Chinese side made known their perception of the Bhutan-China border line, while the Bhutanese side noted their presentation. The 68th session of the National Assembly was presented, showing the Bhutanese claim based on Martham Chem, patrolling limit and traditional usage and Chinese claims in the fifth round. It was thoroughly discussed in the house, which eventually endorsed the Bhutanese claim line.

* In the sixth round, there were more discussions with maps of Bhutan on 1:500,000 scale, depicting the claim lines of both sides being exchanged. There were maps exchanged and discussion on the Western Bhutan and China’s borders.

* In the seventh round in 1990, the Chinese side made some additional offers on the Luling valley sector, the acceptance of which would make them forego their claim in the middle sector.

* In the eighth round, the Bhutanese delegation proposed further territorial adjustments in the Western Sector, however there was not much progress in the next four rounds of talks.

* In the twelfth round, the Chinese side brought the draft of a proposed interim agreement on the maintenance of peace and tranquillity along the Sino-Bhutan border areas, which was later signed by the two foreign ministers after discussions.

* In the thirteenth round in September 1999 in Thimphu, the Chinese side came up with a policy on Bhutan, with proposals for settlement of boundary, establishment of diplomatic relations and trade. The Chinese side proposed that the two sides might concentrate on preparation of descriptions and confirmation of border alignment, adding a new dimension to talks.

* In the fourteenth round in 2000, as China was a larger country, the Chinese side was requested to show greater consideration on the Bhutanese perception of the traditional boundary in Doklam, Sinchulumpa, Dramana and Shakhatoe areas. The Bhutanese side also proposed cartographic discussions.

* In the fifteenth round, the two sides agreed to continue discussions at the expert level groups, to focus mainly on maps and other areas to enhance official talks.

* In the sixteenth round, maps made by the expert group showing claims of both sides were exchanged. In the seventeenth round in April 2004, it was decided to first narrow down the differences at the expert group level.

* However in 2005, the maps were examined but could not be exchanged due to the vast differences between the two claim lines. The Chinese side had differences in areas amounting to 1300 Sq. Km, of which they were ready to consider giving 900 Sq. km.

* In the eighteenth round in Beijing in 2006, the Bhutanese side stressed that the package solution offered by the Chinese in 1990 during the 7th round was not favourable to Bhutan, since the offered Pasamlug already belonged to Bhutan.

The importance of pasture lands in the western sector to the livelihood of yak herders in northern Bhutan was explained. The Chinese side maintained that the basis of further negotiations must be acceptance of the package deal and that China was ready to make minor adjustments within it

Some points worth noting are

* It was only in May 1988 that the Chinese side formally made known their version which was unreasonable.

* In 1990, it became clear that the Chinese want to claim more on the western sector and were willing to forego the claim in the middle sector. The reasons for this move were obvious. The Chinese want to get as much space as possible in the western sector that is close to tri junction of India- Bhutan and China. The reasons for the claim were not on traditional usage, history etc. but purely based on the strategic nature of the western border that is close to the tri junction and India.

* It was in 1999, that the Chinese came up with a comprehensive package deal that for the first time formally raised the issue of establishment of diplomatic relations and trade. The Chinese no doubt wanted to establish a diplomatic mission in Thimpu as a condition for the final settlement of the boundary. There was no offer of any specific concession in the western sector in the package deal.

* In the fourteenth round, the Bhutanese made a fervent plea that it being a very small country and China a much larger country, the latter should show some consideration in the four disputed areas in the western sector. But this was rejected by Chinese. No mercy.

* The package deal was not acceptable to the Bhutanese side as it involves many areas other than the dispute of the border areas. In the last round of the talks ( eighteenth in Beijing) the Chinese made it very clear that further basis of negotiations must be the acceptance of the package offered by them earlier and that China is willing to make some minor adjustments within it.

* The package deal was nothing new. Since 1974 China has been pitching for bilateral trade and closer diplomatic relations. Since nothing had moved, it has now made it official as a quid pro quo for any border settlement. Even here China is willing to accept only “minor adjustments” and Bhutan should be clear by now that even with the establishment of bilateral trade and establishment of the embassy, China will be unwilling to make any major concession in the western sector which is strategically important to China which at the same time is equally of strategic importance to India too.

* There are two views in India on the border problems between Bhutan and China. One view is that Bhutan’s border problem will be settled once the border dispute between India and China is resolved. The other view is that once Bhutan is weaned away from India, the Chinese will probably be more reasonable and may be more generous.

While the first position is unlikely, there are no reasons to believe that the Chinese are going to be generous in the second case- as China is very unlikely to give up its position in the four areas of the western sector which is equally important for Bhutan’s security too.

In the near future while major clashes may not occur between the PLA and RBA, China will continue to tease and bully Bhutan and its border outpost personnel. This is the China that is supposed to rise “peacefully”! .

( Courtesy: South Asia Analysis Group. The writer, Dr S.Chandrasekharan is Director of South Asia Analysis Group, New Delhi.Email:south@southasiaanalysis.org)


Last time when the Bhutanese came to New Delhi the core issue is Chinese bullying and They have made some defense pact with India.

Hope China start helping Bhutan in terms of supply and cut india from siphoning off from Bhutan and its water resource.

India to restore subsidized gas supply to Bhutan from August 1


NEW DELHI: India will restore the supply of subsidized gas to Bhutan from August 1, a month after it was halted and became a campaign issue in the Himalayan Kingdom's second national polls.


"We have obtained and completed all clearances — technical and administrative. We are ready to supply the subsidized cooking gas and kerosene from August 1," official sources said here on Tuesday.

They also said the decision has been conveyed to the new Bhutanese government.

Prime Minister Tshering Tobgay met with the Indian Ambassador to Bhutan VP Haran at the Gyalyong Tshogkhang (National Assembly Hall) on Monday during which India's decision was conveyed, sources said.

Before the elections, the Indian Oil Corporation discontinued the supply of the subsidized fuel, on technical grounds with officials here maintaining that Bhutan's 10th Plan under which India was providing such assistance expired on June 30.

India's subsidy cut to Bhutan gave rise to reports that the decision was taken in view of government's unhappiness with former prime minister and chief of ruling political party Druk Phuensum Tshogpa Jigme Thinley's proximity with China.

Meanwhile, Haran was introduced to the new Bhutanese Cabinet ministers and as per the press release from the information and media division of the office of the Prime Minister, Tobgay and the Ambassador discussed wide range of issues.

The Ambassador also conveyed government's invitation for the Prime Minister's visit to India which was accepted, and assured that he would make a visit to India at the earliest.

The People's Democratic Party (PDP) won a landslide victory in Bhutan's second national elections held on July 13. The PDP defeated Druk Phuensum Tshogpa (DPT) party by winning 32 seats out of the 47 in the National Assembly.

During the campaigning, the rival parties tried to impress upon voters that concerns like India's withdrawal of subsidy on kerosene and cooking gas would be resolved once they form the government.

Chinese are the real problem for Buddhism and Bhutan, they will never allow china into their kingdom, they already know what happened to Tibetan Monks.


Chinese whining and crying who gives a damn, Go cry a river some where else not in South Asia.
 
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I doubt China really cares about Bhutan. Otherwise, it could just easily win over with more subsidies. Apparently, Africa is more important than Bhutan to China.

Anyway, good for India if India is willing to give freebies to Bhutan. I support India gives more aids to Bhutan!
 
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India to restore subsidized gas supply to Bhutan from August 1


NEW DELHI: India will restore the supply of subsidized gas to Bhutan from August 1, a month after it was halted and became a campaign issue in the Himalayan Kingdom's second national polls.

After hijacking Bhutan election using oil embargo, india will restore gas supply. Indian bully and propaganda prime time.
 
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PLA is getting ready to cut off the chicken neck and free NE peoples,who have been fighting for their independence for decades.



Now you are talking....


Eeny meeny Minnie Meck

Grab the chicken by its neck

Grab the chicken by its neck.... :omghaha::omghaha::omghaha:
 
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After hijacking Bhutan election using oil embargo, india will restore gas supply. Indian bully and propaganda prime time.

Both the parties are pro India and they pledged to not to make India a factor in elections. Bhutan is in our sphere of Influence and nothing can change that.
 
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Both the parties are pro India and they pledged to not to make India a factor in elections. Bhutan is in our sphere of Influence and nothing can change that.

Please continue with your lie and chest thumping, while things change just like in Nepal, Maldives and in SriLanka.
 
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Please continue with your lie and chest thumping, while things change just like in Nepal, Maldives and in SriLanka.

What I said is not like your propaganda and lies

With polls 3 days away, all big Bhutan players swear by India - Times Of India

THIMPHU: Bhutan may introduce a law or convention to stop its political parties from making its relationship with India an election issue in future.

After weeks of mudslinging over who "displeased or provoked" India, the kingdom's incumbent party, Druk Phuensum Tshogpa (DPT), and the major opposition People's Democratic Party (PDP) on Tuesday hinted at the possibility of a provision to prevent India-Bhutan ties from turning into a political issue.
"After the July 13 general election, we may review the electoral process and explore means and ways to stop parties from discussing bilateral ties with India during campaigning," DPT vice-president Sangay Thinley Dorji told TOI.

PDP, too, is keen on the proposal. "We can always have an agreement not to discuss India-Bhutan ties during electioneering. Bhutan's relationship with India is of utmost importance for all Bhutanese," said PDP secretary-general Sonam Jatso.

Considering Bhutan's great dependence on Delhi for its economic survival, the debate over India seems to have put DPT, which won 45 out 47 seats in the 2008 election, on the back foot. For, DPT prime minister Jigme Thinley is said to have warmed up to Chinese overtures, giving New Delhi a severe heartburn.

DPT, however, refutes this. "It's during our tenure the India-Bhutan relationship reached its zenith. Anyone can make out this by the number of bilateral visits by leaders of the two countries. Our prime minister visited India nine times," said DPT's officiating president Yeshe Zimba, who himself served as the prime minister twice under the King's direct rule between 2000 and 2003.

To clear the air about Thinley's meeting with Chinese premier Wen Bia in Rio last year, an event that apparently upset India, Zimba said, "It was a simple courtesy meeting. They met just because they happened to be there at the same time."

Zimba ruled out the possibility of any diplomatic ties between Thimphu and Beijing. He said, "We will never deviate from our principled stand of not having diplomatic missions of any of the 'Big Five' of the UN in Thimphu. More importantly, we will never have a policy of equidistance between New Delhi and Beijing."

Zimba added, "We have built our friendship with India as foot soldiers of our Kings over a long period of time. We will never destroy what we have created. Nor will we ever let it come in harm's way."

Zimba pledged that DPT will never undermine India's security concerns while settling border disputes with China. "We are attuned to India in every respect. For us Buddhists, the centre of the universe is Bodh Gaya. We cannot forget how China overran Tibet, a Buddhist nation."

But PDP accuses DTP of being "not transparent" in its dealings with China. "We simply have no idea about what it has done in regards to China, though border disputes are sometimes talked about," Sonam Jatso remarked.

The PDP leader came down heavily on Thinley for running after a non-permanent seat in the UN Security Council. He added, "I personally feel a country like Bhutan should not be there. It would create nothing but enemies." In diplomatic circles, Bhutan's opening of ties with 32 countries since 2008 is linked to Thinley's bid to be on the world radar.

Bhutan is a Buddhist country, highly attached to India and BodhGaya(thier centre of world). Just like Islamists stand for saudi.
 
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That's true, I should have said Proto East Asian. However...

14b42sw.png


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actually this how they migrated

1zvqrnc.png

Learn the difference between language and genetics. Tibetans have haplogroup D while Han don't. Same language family does not mean same genes, in fact while I hate to say this some Koreans are even more closely related to Han people than Tibetans.

Y-chromosomal DNA haplogroups and their implicatio... [Hum Genet. 2003] - PubMed - NCBI
 
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Some people always talk about gene,just open your eyes widly to see what Tibetan look like,european?

Why are you assuming different genetics will lead to justifications for separatism? India will need to split into thousands of tiny little states since they are not even one people. Don't get paranoid, and if genetics mean people should be one country then China gets to take 10% of Korea, since 10% of Koreans have the Chinese subclade of Y chromosome haplogroup O.

Caucasians also have very different genes from each other. Europeans all belong to different haplogroups and their autosomal DNA is different as well.
 
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Chennai Centre for China Studies » Bhutan’s Northern Border:China’s Bullying and Teasing Tactics


Chinese whining and crying who gives a damn, Go cry a river some where else not in South Asia.

Why crying a river when God already make China several rivers that flown into South Asia and one of them is call Brahmaputra :lol: And you should give a damn because this river and other tributaries ones will dictate the life line of millions Indians. ;)

As for Bhutan, India can only give free aids at the expense of it own people to buy influence but we china don't even bother, the natural geography already dictate Bhutan dependant of China. Man I just love Tibet :smitten:

mbhutan.gif
 
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Why are you assuming different genetics will lead to justifications for separatism? India will need to split into thousands of tiny little states since they are not even one people. Don't get paranoid, and if genetics mean people should be one country then China gets to take 10% of Korea, since 10% of Koreans have the Chinese subclade of Y chromosome haplogroup O.

Caucasians also have very different genes from each other. Europeans all belong to different haplogroups and their autosomal DNA is different as well.
Identity and self Identity by what,body features especially that of face but not gene.
 
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Why crying a river when God already make China several rivers that flown into South Asia and one of them is call Brahmaputra :lol: And you should give a damn because this river and other tributaries ones will dictate the life line of millions Indians. ;)

As for Bhutan, India can only give free aids at the expense of it own people to buy influence but we china don't even bother, the natural geography already dictate Bhutan dependant of China. Man I just love Tibet :smitten:

mbhutan.gif
No need to say Bhutan people like Chinese and do not like Indian.
But Tibet not so valuable as you thinking,it is just a buffer zone China need to occupy to take back our own lands which are really good ones.
 
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Oh another thread on something that has already been reversed and already cited in the second post of this thread.

How many times is it going to be the same?:

1- Pakistani/Bangla members cite a foreign policy issue which was a either a gaffe or a mis-timed one.

2- China boasting to militarily free that region from 'Indian hegemony'.

3- Bangladeshi and/or host members wetting themselves with excitement that their new god will save them from some stupid imaginary threat that their mullahs have been feeding them for years with.

Its like a cycle's wheel now.

No need to say Bhutan people like Chinese and do not like Indian.
But Tibet not so valuable as you thinking,it is just a buffer zone China need to occupy to take back our own lands which are really good ones.

It is your perception that you can deceive us with such hypes.

Keep enjoying that.

That is exactly what we want; to make you think you're the winner.

Because that is where half the debate and conflict is won.
 
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Do not manipulate Bhutan’s democracy

It is only with sadness that one can read Sandeep Dikshit’s report in HIndu newspaper, here, as to how ham-handed India has been toward Bhutan, crudely interfering in its internal affairs. Not only is the Indian establishment advertising itself to be intellectually bankrupt but the Indian leadership has flagged that the more things seem to change in our country’s neighbourhood policies, the more they remain the same.

The upshot of what happened can be summed up as follows. In the first round of parliamentary election in Bhutan in May, the results showed that the ruling Druk Phuensum Tshogpa had a strong winning card to get re-elected, something which made Delhi uncomfortable, given the “independent foreign policy” pursued by the DPT government. So, the pendulum needed to be swung in favor of the opposition People’s Democratic Party. From all appearance, Delhi did a masterly job of ensuring the PDP won.

Three cheers for Bhutanese democracy! On a long-term basis, we are creating a permanent “anti-India” lobby in Bhutan. This sordid manipulation of the Bhutanese political system underscores why India is such a hated country in its region. Who likes a bully?

In fact, one negative fallout of the Bhutan story is going to be that Colombo will be more than ever determined now to do away with the 13th Amendment. The Sri Lankan nationalists fear that Delhi may at some point manipulate any provincial government with delegated powers in the Tamil-dominated regions of northern and eastern Sri Lanka as the tool to advance its geopolitical interests.

Can we fault them from harbouring atavistic fears about Indian hegemony? Do not forget for a moment that Indira Gandhi’s blatant interference in Sri Lankan internal affairs was also provoked by the then President J. R. Jayewardene’s independent foreign policy.

Again, make no mistake, if (or when) she gets re-lected as Bangladesh prime minister, Khaleda Zia is bound to revert to a policy of calibrated antagonism toward India. As for Pakistan, why do we blame its Afghan policy, which is hell-bent on exorcising the Indian influence in Kabul? William Dalrymple’s celebrated essay recently, which is featured by the Brookings (and widely reprinted abroad) — explains how the Indian and Pakistani security agencies are locked in a death dance in the Hindu Kush.

One would have thought that the assassination of Rajiv Gandhi prompted India to repent. Apparently, it isn’t so. Nepal — and now Bhutan. Is it the Maldives next?

Why do we need a “string of pearls” to choke our neck? All China needs to do is to leave us to the shenanigans of our intellectually-bankrupt bureaucrats and their political masters. The perceived Indian “hegemony” will only drive our South Asian neighbours toward deeper engagement with China.

Hardly 72 hours passed since the National Security Advisor Shivshankar Menon visited Colombo for the Sri Lankan cabinet to announce the award of yet another big project to Chinese companies — ironically, the first $1.5 billion phase of the Northern Highway.


And the Chinese companies are going to handle on B.O.T. basis for a quarter century this vital project that aims at integrating the Tamil regions with the Sinhalese-dominated south.

Do not manipulate Bhutan’s democracy - Indian Punchline
 
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