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New Chinese stealth fighter heightens dilemma for Indian Navy

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Rafale deal is not yet finalized and their deliveries will complete in 2020 by the time J-31 will be operational hopefully in PAF too.
Just imagine the headlines in Indian media when J-31 will be operational on both sides :devil:

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There are more than 66,000 editorials in all the languages of INDIA, and each have 100's of reporters working and each have their own ways of penning words when it comes to publishing some thing.
what is your point.
are you saying that INDIA will break away because some one wrote of INDIA being devoured by J31's from both side of the border?
if you are thinking in such lines enjoy your weekend.
 
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How good is the Chinese Civil Aviation industry in building transport planes, are they ready to challenge the might of Boeing and Airbus in this sector?:

Y-20 is in the test, will be ready before 2015. USA is far more ahead of China in transport aircraft industry, we still have a long way to go,especially of engine design.That's why we plan to invest hundreds of billions for engine R&D in the coming decade.
 
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Y-20 is in the test, will be ready before 2015. USA is far more ahead of China in transport aircraft industry, we still have a long way to go,especially of engine design.That's why we plan to invest hundreds of billions for engine R&D in the coming decade.
Congrats guys,
I was hoping to see atleast one Asian Company challenging the might of Boeing or any other western aircraft industry for that sake.
As far as INDIA is considered, we are slow and steady when it comes to decession making, lets wait for some more time for the concerned ministry to give a go ahead for TATA's or any other company in investing in this sector.
Besides we have a lot of cleaning to do when it comes to Politics.
 
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Let's look at this logically now.

3 carriers : - 1 in the dock, 1 patrolling the North Pacific, 1 patrolling the South Pacific. Unless the PLAN has 5 aircraft carriers, no way they can think about the Indian Ocean. Having an aircraft carrier, operating away from home base requires logisitical ports and strategic partners who will let you do the same. Also, this qill require nuclear powered aircraft carriers.
 
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(1)“J-31" will be ready a lot earlier than some people here think。
(2)”J-31" is just one among several options for PLAN's 5th gen carrier borne figters.
(3)J-20 and ”J-31" are NOT the end of story so far as China's 5th fighter programme is concerned,i.e. more in the pipeline
(4)India also have to face RED "X-47B" that will be revealed soon and is gonna used onboard China's home-made CVs.


I agree that China will surprise everybody with how soon they will get their stealth projects and other military projects, like their indigienous carriers, up and running before many "experts" believe they will. Some people here seem to think these new J-31 and J-20 prototypes were only knocked up in a few months after rough evaluations to approximate F-22 and F-35 designs. However, it has been made known that the Chinese stealth program has been underway for decades, at least from the early 90's. The Chinese haven't been building all those advanced wind tunnels and testing facilities for nothing. When the Chinese start showing their hands (displaying the J-20 and J-31 prototypes) so to speak, it means that many of the required technologies are already far along the development and testing stages.

People outside of China must also realise that China are making weapons systems like they are already at war, which in some respect they are at, at least economically, with countries like the US and Japan, and these countries are using China's neighbours to encircle China. China are developing fighter jets and naval assets with the urgency of a nation already at war and nobody can deny that when the Chinese set out to achieve something, they almost always without fail achieve their aims. They already have laid out the foundations by building the relevant manufacturing and research hubs and reorganised the many arms of their state-ran aviation industry, with a unified goal of achieving matured stealth fighters, in as quick a time as possible. Comparing China's military developments with that of any other country's is pointless because China is unlike any other country making modern armaments, in that it has no restrictions financially and very few political beaurocracies that hinder her progress.

Also take into account that China, whether by hook or crook, have gained technologies that are already out there. They are walking a trodden path and have become masters of retracing other's footsteps. Reverse engineering is an art in itself and being able to do so means they have a very highly developed research sector already and is nothing to sniff at. When you're a technologically inferior nation and playing catch up, this is the inevitable route you must take to achieve rapid parity with the head of the class. China are doing this and then some. I honestly think China will be inducting these fighters and other military projects much, and I mean very much, sooner than anybody outside China believe they will be ready. This may unsettle China's neighbours, but if I had a passive-aggressive competitor/adversary/economic partner like the US, with a history of military interference, I'd want to have weapons that can deter that nation and give it something to think about.
 
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Indian Navy?s 45 Russian MiG-29Ks are capable fighters, but they will be outclassed by stealthy J-31 when it enters service



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Was last week’s inaugural flight of China’s second stealth fighter linked to the ongoing 18th National Congress of the Chinese Communist Party? Was President Hu Jintao demonstrating his relationship with the People’s Liberation Army (PLA), a powerful lever for elevating his protégés to the apex Politburo Standing Committee?

Several unanswered questions surround the October 31 debut of the J-31 Shenyang fighter, which the pathologically secretive PLA took unusual pains to publicise. Having already unveiled the J-20 Chengdu stealth fighter in January 2011, China is the only country that is developing two separate stealth fighters. The US is developing the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, albeit in three versions; Russia is working on a single design, the PAK-FA, to which India has hitched its wagon. Separately, Japan is developing the ATD-X demonstrator.

Other intriguing questions include: Given the J-31’s close resemblance to the US F-35 fighter, has China reverse-engineered it from blueprints that Lockheed Martin had reported stolen in 2009 from the computers of six American aerospace subcontractors? Is the J-31 for export only, which would explain the publicity that the PLA is giving it? Or will the PLA use the J-31 as an air superiority fighter while the larger J-20 strikes ground targets, an allocation of roles that mirrors the employment of the F-22 Raptor and the F-35 by the US Air Force? Or is the F-31 a competitor to the J-20, with the better of the two designs destined to go into production?

But the question that most worries the Indian Navy is: does the sturdy landing gear that experts have spotted on the J-31 indicate that the new fighter will operate from Chinese aircraft carriers, giving the PLA Navy, or PLA(N), an aerial combat capability that would outmuscle India’s in the Indian Ocean?

China is focusing keenly on naval air power. Just a month ago China’s first aircraft carrier, the Liaoning, had joined the PLA(N) fleet. The 58,500-tonne Liaoning — bought as scrap from Ukraine for a floating casino, but then renovated in Dalian shipyard into an operational carrier — is the PLA(N)’s first attempt at learning the complex skills of aircraft carrier operations. This is difficult learning. The US Navy lost some 12,000 aircraft and 8,500 airmen from 1949-1988 in developing its naval aviation skills. But Indian planners believe the Chinese will learn quickly, especially when the Liaoning is joined by more modern aircraft carriers that are already being built in China.

Indian Navy planners tell Business Standard that the PLA(N)’s three-pronged process — learning aircraft carrier operations; building one or two modern carriers; and inducting the J-31 — could take a decade or more. But after that, PLA(N) aircraft carrier battle groups could operate in the Indian Ocean, fielding fighters that are superior to India’s.

The Indian Navy’s 45 Russian MiG-29Ks, purchased for two new aircraft carriers, are capable fighters today, but would certainly be outclassed by the stealthy J-31 whenever it enters service. The navy’s new carriers — the 44,000-tonne INS Vikramaditya that could join the fleet next year; and the unnamed, 40,000-tonne Indigenous Aircraft Carrier (IAC) that will be ready only by 2017 — are both fitted with ski-jumps that are custom-built for the MiG-29K to take off.

If the navy wants a more capable fighter, e.g. the Dassault Rafale, which the Indian Air Force is buying, or the F-35C, which is the naval version of the Joint Strike Fighter, it will need an aircraft carrier with a catapult rather than a ski-jump. If the navy designs its second IAC (a 60,000-tonne vessel that is still being conceptualised) with a catapult on the flight deck, a fifth-generation stealth fighter could soon follow.

The navy has already signaled such an interest. In 2006, and again in 2007, New Delhi asked Lockheed Martin (which runs the F-35 programme) for briefings on the F-35B, a short take off and vertical landing (STOVL) variant that the US Marine Corps will fly off its smaller aircraft carriers called Landing Helicopter Docks. While the F-35B could operate from a ski-jump, the F-35C needs a catapult to propel it off the flight deck.

Will the J-31 push the navy towards more advanced fighters and a second IAC with catapult assisted launch? All options remain on the table. Then naval chief, Admiral Nirmal Verma, speaking in Delhi on August 7 shortly before he retired, did not rule out “having an entirely different carrier with a different complement of aircraft.”

That decision, however, would be a difficult one, keeping in mind that two carriers would already be fielding the MiG-29K, and a new fighter would complicate training and logistics.

“I can’t rule out anything or rule in anything. It is something at the concept stage and it will take a couple of years before we firm up our ideas on this,” said Admiral Verma.

The navy’s eyes will be focused on the Zhuhai Air Show, in China, in mid-November for more details that might emerge about China’s new stealth fighter.

New Chinese stealth fighter heightens dilemma for Indian Navy

no tension sirji

according to the latest rumors in power corridoors of sena bhawan the latest tweet by my "chiria" the navy is highly impressed by the Rafale and Rafale M is on the cards for IAC-2 + there are rumours also that AMCA will be onli for Naval & ARMY use as for airforce Rafale and FGFA & PAKFA are already done deal :yahoo:
 
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Let's look at this logically now.

3 carriers : - 1 in the dock, 1 patrolling the North Pacific, 1 patrolling the South Pacific. Unless the PLAN has 5 aircraft carriers, no way they can think about the Indian Ocean. Having an aircraft carrier, operating away from home base requires logisitical ports and strategic partners who will let you do the same. Also, this qill require nuclear powered aircraft carriers.
what makes you think that they do not have the logistic support, Do you think that they military planners are dumb not to take these into consideration. The next big power is CHINA, its better to accept this reality. when we de-valued our currency in 1990, they started appreciating their currency. Thats the reason some day 1$ is going to 1 yuan.
 
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what makes you think that they do not have the logistic support, Do you think that they military planners are dumb not to take these into consideration. The next big power is CHINA, its better to accept this reality. when we de-valued our currency in 1990, they started appreciating their currency. Thats the reason some day 1$ is going to 1 yuan.

Your post suggest 3 things. 0 marks for history. 0 marks for economics and 0 marks forCG operations. Read up on the 3 points before commenting. And don't expect me to spoon feed you on any of the 3.
 
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Your post suggest 3 things. 0 marks for history. 0 marks for economics and 0 marks forCG operations. Read up on the 3 points before commenting. And don't expect me to spoon feed you on any of the 3.
if that is how you per sieve my words, I am not going to argue on it, because its your freedom to chose what you want to see and what not.
Fear and worship for Chinese, I am a proud INDIAN as much as you are, but not a blind INDIAN to see the obvious.
 
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if that is how you per sieve my words, I am not going to argue on it, because its your freedom to chose what you want to see and what not.
Fear and worship for Chinese, I am a proud INDIAN as much as you are, but not a blind INDIAN to see the obvious.

No need to bring patriotism (I have not brought it up) and hide behind it when you don't have a response. Your post anyway clearly pointed to not understanding history or economics or carrier operations. Just debate logically and prove what I have written is wrong. Else go play scaredy cat.
 
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No need to bring patriotism (I have not brought it up) and hide behind it when you don't have a response. Just debate logically and prove what I have written is wrong.

1. Carrier operations
2. 5 carriers
I am sure that they have floated their first carrier a few months back as it was a big news.
Besides with the vast technology base, I am sure they can create 5 more or even buy from potential sellers.
as far as re-armaments and docking is concerned, SL is going to serve as their base. How much do you know about SL forigen policy?
SL has already make MANDRIN as a second language, SL's current generation of youths and next generation of youths will be pro CHINA just because INDIA has a Tamil population in TN, are you ready to kill or dilute the Tamil population in your country so as to please the SL people and also make the rest of INDIA safe?
if killing 7 crore Tamils are diluting Tamil culture is one of your card?
 
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Let's look at this logically now.

3 carriers : - 1 in the dock, 1 patrolling the North Pacific, 1 patrolling the South Pacific. Unless the PLAN has 5 aircraft carriers, no way they can think about the Indian Ocean. Having an aircraft carrier, operating away from home base requires logisitical ports and strategic partners who will let you do the same. Also, this qill require nuclear powered aircraft carriers.
China will at least build up to six CBG. We will negotiate to build a carrier dock port in Karachi with Pakistan, maybe in the future. Nuclear propelled carrier is not that difficulty in considering China has nuclear sub with alike technology, not to forget China has the most advanced PWR tech recognized by the whole world.

I am sure that they have floated their first carrier a few months back as it was a big news.
Besides with the vast technology base, I am sure they can create 5 more or even buy from potential sellers.
as far as re-armaments and docking is concerned, SL is going to serve as their base. How much do you know about SL forigen policy?
SL has already make MANDRIN as a second language, SL's current generation of youths and next generation of youths will be pro CHINA just because INDIA has a Tamil population in TN, are you ready to kill or dilute the Tamil population in your country so as to please the SL people and also make the rest of INDIA safe?
if killing 7 crore Tamils are diluting Tamil culture is one of your card?
Just ignore him dude, you are 100 times more reasonable. According to the comments in PDF, most BD and Siri Lankan are Pro China. That is not because they really hate you guys, it reflect their fear against a powerful India's expansion desire. This is the same reason why Vietnam, Japan, Russia also dont like China, all these relationship is destined by being a giant in the region. You are hatred because you are too big to not pose threat, that's a simple reason to follow.
 
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I am sure that they have floated their first carrier a few months back as it was a big news.
Besides with the vast technology base, I am sure they can create 5 more or even buy from potential sellers.
as far as re-armaments and docking is concerned, SL is going to serve as their base. How much do you know about SL forigen policy?
SL has already make MANDRIN as a second language, SL's current generation of youths and next generation of youths will be pro CHINA just because INDIA has a Tamil population in TN, are you ready to kill or dilute the Tamil population in your country so as to please the SL people and also make the rest of INDIA safe?
if killing 7 crore Tamils are diluting Tamil culture is one of your card?

Spare the gyan on the Tamil situation and SL foreign policy, I am half Tamil myself. And I completely support what the SL did with the LTTE. The SL army gets training in Indian military institutions.

Prove my points are wrong instead of beating round the bush of what they will do 30 years down the line and how they can do this and they can do that.

Your naivety of saying they will buy 5 carriers and voila everything is happy again shows your understanding of the topic. If you do not get CG operations, stop bringing other points for discussion. So please. Lets end this here.
 
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Spare the gyan on the Tamil situation and SL foreign policy, I am half Tamil myself. And I completely support what the SL did with the LTTE. The SL army gets training in Indian military institutions.

Prove my points are wrong instead of beating round the bush of what they will do 30 years down the line and how they can do this and they can do that.

Your naivety of saying they will buy 5 carriers and voila everything is happy again shows your understanding of the topic. If you do not get CG operations, stop bringing other points for discussion. So please. Lets end this here.

ya ya, half baked is no good for Tamils. so you are also ok with what they did to the Tamil women, as shown in the Channel 4 footage.
 
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