new aircraft carrier to make russia powerfull

[applesauce]

Remember, that 50k may be empty load or m3.

doesnt matter

HowStuffWorks "Superlifts and Building an Aircraft Carrier"

just the weight of the steel alone(not even including stuff like cabling and furniture) on something the size of the nimitz class weights some 60,000 tons, there is simply no way the russians are going to make an aircraft carrier able to carry 80 war planes(unless they're all crop dusters) and have it weight 50,000 ton, empty weight or otherwise let alone including the s-500 system in such a design.

Soviet aircraft carrier Ulyanovsk - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Next,
replace those big Su-33 with and equal number of smaller Mig-29Ks (48)
have AEW performed by 4x Ka-31 rather than 4x Yak 44 (4)
I'm sure you can now squeeze in some more Mig 29K

if you'll pay attention,you will see from your own source that even that planned(never finished building) carrier is already at 60,000 tons empty and it does not have the s-500 system(or similar) included

Also

Project 1153 OREL - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If S-500 missiles are in the size of no more than 9m96e2, then why not.

i didnt say it was impossible to put a s-500 system on a ship, what is not possible is putting it on this mythical carrier that weights only 50,000 tons and carries 80 aircraft. with the s-500 its not just purely about the weight. the s-500 package on a ships takes space(case in point, the former varyag with its old missiles), and spaceis more than just one missile, its all the sensors,launchers, ammo, etc etc. space that aircraft/crew/fuel/etc now cannot use, meaning less aircraft meaning your not going to have 80 planes, to hit that magically 80 planes mark you would have to enlarge the ship, but wait you cant because itll weigh far more than 50k tons. not that you 50k ton with 80 planes is even viable in the first place even without the s-500.

 

[Penguin]

Project 1153 OREL The ship would have been about 75-80,000 tons displacement, with a nuclear power plant and carried about 70 aircraft launched via steam catapults. It was cancelled as being too expensive and a reduced version of 60,000 tons and fifty aircraft was proposed.

Project 1153 OREL - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ulyanovsk was based upon the 1975 Project 1153 OREL
60,000 tons empty > 79,758 tons full load
It would have been 85,000 tons in displacement
Group "Ulyanovsk" was to include 70 aircraft.

Soviet aircraft carrier Ulyanovsk - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Assume 85k to refer to MAX displacement

Kuznetsov Displacement:
43,000 tons (Standard-load)[1]
55,200 tons (Full-load)[1]
61,390 tons (Max-load)

Aircraft carried:
41-52[2]
Fixed Wing;
14 × Su-33 fighters (current) or
28 × MiG-29K fighters (planned after refit)
4 × Sukhoi Su-25UTG/UBP aircraft
Rotary Wing;
4 × Kamov Ka-27LD32 helicopters
11 × Kamov Ka-27PLO helicopters
2 × Kamov Ka-27S helicopters

Russian aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm saying 60k tons displacement is likely standard or empty displacement, which makes the new ship 1.5x the Kuznetsov, which has a standards displacement of 43k tons. This essentially puts it in Ulyanovsk range, which was slated to get 70 aircraft. If you take that design, and lighten the 'cruiser weapons' load plut use Mig29K in place of Su33, and heli's in place of 4 Yakovlev Yak-44 RLD Airborne early warning aircraft , you may well end up with 60k displacement and 80 aircraft (esp. when embarking ASW choppers with a smaller footprint than Ka-27 and relatives or fewer ASW assets.

-edit-
An S-500 endo-atmospheric interceptor derived from the 9M82/9M82M is a reasonable possibility. The 9M82 has a length of 9.9m and a mass of 5800 kg. Reallocating the Ulyanovsk's P-700 Granit launch silo's might allow an S-500 missile system to be incorporated. P-700 (SS-N-19) is 10m long and weighs 7000 kg. More challenging may be finding places and spaces for the associated radars.
- end edit-

 

[applesauce]

I'm saying 60k tons displacement is likely standard or empty displacement, which makes the new ship 1.5x the Kuznetsov, which has a standards displacement of 43k tons. This essentially puts it in Ulyanovsk range, which was slated to get 70 aircraft. If you take that design, and lighten the 'cruiser weapons' load plut use Mig29K in place of Su33, and heli's in place of 4 Yakovlev Yak-44 RLD Airborne early warning aircraft , you may wel end up with 60k displacement and 80 aircraft (esp. when embarking ASW choppers with a smaller footprint than Ka-27 and relatives or fewer ASW assets.

way to ignore everything i said and just repeat the same thing u said before. the article says 50k tons not 60k tons, a 20% difference in weight is significant. and perhaps if the Ulyanovsk size ship used mig-29's and helos it may be able to take 80 aircraft while being 60 some odd k tons empty and 80k tons operational, but again this is already over the stated 50k tons and does not include the s-500 system, with the s-500 there will be fewer room for people, planes, fuel, other equipment, meaning the ship must be larger to carrier the same number of aircraft, just look at the Kuznetsov it was orginally designed take only 41 planes(the SU-33), while the similar sized Queen Elizabeth class can take 40+ in fighter-bombers alone(these are upper limit operational numbers, normal will be less). why? because theres no large missile system on board, this is the same reason the US carrier do not have missile systems because the carrier has only one job, the defense falls on their escorts. a fully operational carrier having 80+ planes and s-500 system could be well into the 90k ton range when using the mig-29 and thats a very generous estimate

 

[Penguin]

Fully loaded displacement (the weight of water displaced by the ship when in full combat mode) - 97,000 tons (~88,000 metric tons)
Weight of structural steel - 60,000 tons (~54,000 metric tons)

HowStuffWorks "Superlifts and Building an Aircraft Carrier"
Metric tons .... 54k - 88k


I've not commented on the wisdom merely on the possibility. The russians have always taken a different approach wrt armament of their aviation capable ships compared to US. Witness incorporation of Granit AShM, the number of SAMs etc. Besides, it is all hypthetical at this point, since I take it the Russian Navy already rejected a design bureau's resurrected Ulyanovsk design. So, please dispense with the tone and stick to decent substantive discussion.

USN today has 100k tn carriers with 65 a/c airgroups typically but then again no two U.S. Navy carrier air wings are identical in composition. Future airgroups may include U(C)AVs, which may reduce space and crewing demand. Just a thought ...
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2012/01/dn-navy-document-plans-future-of-carrier-air-wings-011812/

Designed by the Russian firm Mikoyan, the Skat (Russian: Скат – "Manta ray") is one of two concept strike UCAV currently being developed for the Russian Defense Ministry.

Crew: 0
Length: 10.25 m (33.6 ft in)
Wingspan: 11.5 m (37.7 ft in)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_Skat

Mig 29K
Crew: One / Two (KUB)
Length: 17.3 m (57.76 ft)
Wingspan: 11.99 m (39.34 ft)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_MiG-29K

Su-33
Crew: 1
Length: 21.94 m (72 ft)
Wingspan: 14.70 m (48.25 ft)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Su-33

 

[Penguin]

The displacement of the new aircraft carrier will be more than 50,000 tonnes, which is bigger than that of the Admiral Kuznetsov but smaller than that of its modern US analogues. It will be able to take about 80 airplanes on its deck.

Also, let's not forget this is just indicative, not definitive.

Plus, from the source article ( http://english.ruvr.ru/2012_11_27/New-ship-will-make-Russia-superpower-on-sea-experts-say/ ) it is not clear WHO came up with those dimensions.

In another publication of november 2012 ( http://rusnavy.com/news/navy/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=16549 ) that same admiral is quoted saying only:
"

Russian Navy needs up-to-date aircraft carriers; project design of a prospective aircraft carrier for Russian Navy will be finished by 2020, said Russian Navy Commander-in-Chief Admiral Viktor Chirkov on Friday.

"In my personal opinion, designing of a new aircraft carrier is vital for us", reports Interfax citing ADM Chirkov.

As for him, "development of the project is in progress". "We must conceive what kind of an aircraft carrier we need, and the main thing, understand the necessity of having such ships", emphasized Chirkov. He specified that development of conceptual design of the carrier would finish by 2020.

It is noteworthy that Chirkov said in July that certain research institutes had been already tasked to develop a project of aircraft carrier. The money has been appropriated for that purpose as well.

I.e. there is no design yet. And if you read the article, there would appear to be some difference of opinion between this navy admiral and DoD/Minister as to what the navy needs.

See also:
http://navaltoday.com/2012/12/21/ru...d-unmanned-subs-navy-commander-in-chief-says/
http://nosint.blogspot.nl/2012/07/r...logspot/fqzx+(Naval+Open+Source+INTelligence)

 

[vostok]

 

[That Guy]

looks like it'll be able to carry around 30+ fighters on it.

I know next to nothing about aircraft carriers, so take my words with a pinch of salt.

 

[KRAIT]

I do see Naval PAK-FA.

 

[applesauce]

very nice model. i continue to say its way over 50k tons. ill eat my hat if, when built, its 50k or below(empty or otherwise)

 

[Super Falcon]

salute to putin

 

[Black Eagle 90]

A new aircraft carrier will combine the properties of a command and control vessel with that of a powerful defensive ship..

Russia intends to strengthen its maritime security with a heavy air-capable new generation cruiser, which is expected to be put to use by the Russian Navy in 2020.

The new aircraft carrier will combine the properties of a command and control vessel with that of a powerful defensive ship. It is also planned to fit up this cruiser with the most advanced equipment that has no analogues in the world.

The main purpose of such a ship is to deliver strikes at targets in the air, on water, on land and even in space. The latter task will be achieved if the ship works in a tandem with a group of orbital facilities.

At present, Russia has only one heavy air-capable cruiser, called Admiral Kuznetsov, which is drawing its duty in Russia’s northern waters. There are plans to modernise it by 2020, but Russian Navy commanders have long been saying that Russia needs more heavy cruisers as well.

In an interview with the Voice of Russia, analyst Ivan Konovalov said: “There have been certain misunderstandings between the Russian United Shipbuilding Corporation and the Defence Ministry concerning this issue. But when the country’s top leaders announced that Russia needs new aircraft carriers, there are no more misunderstandings. The Russian navy has 4 subdivisions - thus, it is planned that Russia will have 4 battle groups headed by aircraft carriers.”

These groups will consist of the aircraft carrier itself, at least 6 more other battle ships and 1 or 2 submarines.

On November 23, the Russian Navy’s Commander-in-Chief Admiral Victor Chirkov said that works on the project of the new aircraft carrier should be finished by 2020. Money on this project has already been allocated.

The conditions which the commanders have put forward for the new ship is that it should spend a very long time without being reloaded with any energy from outside (it is planned that this will be reached by equipping the ship with nuclear reactors), be workable at any weather and have a high combat viability.

The editor-in-chief of the Russian magazine “Export Vooruzheniy” (Export of Arms) Andrey Florov says: “For Russia, having such a cruiser would mean more than just having another military ship. If Russia has it, it will be able to claim for the status of a superpower from the point of view of navy – although, of course, the cruiser will be not only a symbol of power, but be used for practical aims as well. It will defend Russian submarines and land-based marines from air attacks.”

The displacement of the new aircraft carrier will be more than 50,000 tonnes, which is bigger than that of the Admiral Kuznetsov but smaller than that of its modern US analogues. It will be able to take about 80 airplanes on its deck.

I want to ask that what had happened to Russian in 2006 when they have announced their plans of 6 super N-Carriers till 2015 and will going to replace its current one too.

But its good to see that they are doing it now. Again... and how much carriers are planned and in what time frame?

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

3 carriers as far as i know.1 for baltic fleet.1 for pacific fleet,1 for mediterranean fleet.

 

[Alienware]

3 carriers as far as i know.1 for baltic fleet.1 for pacific fleet,1 for mediterranean fleet.

Don't you mean Northern Fleet? The Russians do not have a Mediterranean fleet. Also, the Baltic fleet is very small, with only a handful of ships (smaller than the Norwegian Navy). It is expected that with 3 carriers, 2 will be equip the Pacific fleet and 1 in the Northern Fleet.

Russian Maritime policy is shifting focus from Europe (Northern Fleet) to the Pacific (Pacific Fleet). Over the next few decades the Russian Navy will gradually shrink in Europe and expand in Asia.

Currently the Northern Fleet is Russia's largest and most powerful - the future will see the Pacific Fleet as Russia's largest and most powerful.

 

[Super Falcon]

im die hard fan of russian millitary and russian military hardware they are amazing

 

[saumyasupratik]

IN wants to have a total of 7 aircraft carriers.

So -

Vikramaditya (ex-Admiral Gorshkov) --- 45,000 tons --- MiG-29K
Vikrant (Project-71 IAC-1) --- 40,000 tons --- MiG-29K + N-LCA
VIshaal (Project-71A IAC-2) --- 65,000 tons --- N-FGFA
(ex-Admiral Kuznetsov) --- 67,500 rons --- Su-33MKI
Viraat (ex-Hermes) --- 28,700 tons --- Sea Harrier LUSH (to be retired)

Its very much possible IN will want to have refurbished Kuznetsov to fly something like Su-33MKI
or navalised Super Sukhoi.

Whats the possibility that USS Enterprise be refurbished and sold to IN to fly Rafale-M by 2020?

Enterprise --- 93,284 tons --- Rafale-M

We can power it with Indian nuclear reactors instead of the US ones.

In addition we should build IAC-3 with 100,000 tons displacement for N-AMCA and N-FGFA
similar in size and appearence to the Russian Stanislav-class AC.

Any sources for all this? IN is not getting the Kuznetsov and neither is it interested in them.