Need of F16 Block 60 in PAF

[Indus Falcon]

@Horus

Thats all we need, you trolling!

 

[SQ8]

Thats all we need, you trolling!

You guys honestly deserve it. Block 60s,.. some guy going around posting off facebook pages on tank trials..
No wonder Shiekh Chilley was Pakistani.

 

[MilSpec]

Not for F-16XL, Pakistan much pressure US congress to make Block 70 and ask for F-35 technology in it.

Lage raho.

 

[SQ8]

Lage raho.

Im not stopping till we get our hands on the stash at Area-51... hire some Greys too for infiltration missions across the border.

 

[MilSpec]

Im not stopping till we get our hands on the stash at Area-51... hire some Greys too for infiltration missions across the border.

all you will find in the warehouse 13 is Vedic LCA's...

 

[Zarvan]

There is neither the need nor the possibility of F-16's block 60 for PAF.

PAF is not interested in acquiring anymore F-16's with " KILL SWITCHES ".

PAF is on the right track in acquiring Aircraft which come with Transfer of Technology from China.

The next acquisition would be 5th Generation Fighter Aircraft.

No Sir next acquisition won't be 5th Generation it would be another 4.5th Generation Fighter and than we would focus on 5th Generation as for BLOCK 60 may be UAE can be of some help in convincing USA but still really difficult.

 

[Darth Vader]

@Oscar You asked to forgot Alliance Fleet My Friend so i em giving it you before even you ask it

 

[princefaisal]

Who is saying pulling f16 im saying paf should consider more powerfull fighter jet era of stealth fighter jet started and era of twin engine jet

Im saying we dont need f 16 abymore

In 1976 which country made it is now not buying it anymore either usa stupid or they want to go ahead

Every fighter jets has its era F 16 CANT fight against top notch rafale and pak fa

Su 30 fighter pilot frar or no fear 3 SU 30 against 1 F 16 100 percent SU 30 winning in both bvr and wvr

We should accept ground realities

Ground realities:-

According to wikipedia, USA has 912 single engine F-16s as against the total of 645 twin engine aircrafts (F-15s, F-22, F-35).

For winning of Su-30 against F-16s, please read the following (its mentioned in another thread):-

By Arming India Correspondent

NEW DELHI, AUG.1, 2015: Pakistan's latest fleet of F-16 Block 52 variants can beat India's front line Sukhoi Su-30MKIs in a one-on-one dogfight, a top Indian government official told Arming India, in an admission that the Indian Air Force (IAF) lacks a counter to its enemy number one's air combat platform.

That's precisely why India had chosen French Rafales as its Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) that can counter the F-16's capabilities. India's Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar had told Parliament last week that the government had earlier this year withdrawn a 2007 tender for 126 MMRCA, a contest in which Rafale was chosen by India.
The two squadrons of F-16C/D variants of Pakistan Air Force (PAF) have superior electronic warfare capabilities and that's what is worrying the IAF commanders, the highly-placed government official, who did not wish to be identified, citing service rules, said in a tête-à-tête with Arming India on July 30, 2015.

"It is not the BVR (Beyond Visual Range) air battles, but the close air battles that the Su-30s can't match up with the F-16C/D variants. The PAF planes have superior electronic warfare capabilities and the contemporary air battles rely more on EW capabilities to beat an enemy combat plane in a one-on-one dogfight," the official said.

The contemporary air battle strategies revolve around neutralizing enemy planes at beyond visual range. But there is a possibility that some enemy plane would sneak in through the air defense measures in place. In such a scenario, the enemy plane could wreak havoc on the Indian troops and assets on the ground. As a counter, fighter jets may have to be scrambled to take on the enemy plane one-on-one.

The official also noted that for every one F-16 that PAF has, India has to deploy two Su-30s if the enemy fleet is to be beaten. "If the F-16 goes after one Su-30, it can run and the other Su-30 can get a go at the enemy F-16. That way, the IAF has to deploy too many of its Su-30 resources for just countering the F-16s."

Ground realities:-

According to wikipedia, USA has 912 single engine F-16s as against the total of 645 twin engine aircrafts (F-15s, F-22, F-35).

For winning of Su-30 against F-16s, please read the following (its mentioned in another thread):-

By Arming India Correspondent

NEW DELHI, AUG.1, 2015: Pakistan's latest fleet of F-16 Block 52 variants can beat India's front line Sukhoi Su-30MKIs in a one-on-one dogfight, a top Indian government official told Arming India, in an admission that the Indian Air Force (IAF) lacks a counter to its enemy number one's air combat platform.

That's precisely why India had chosen French Rafales as its Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) that can counter the F-16's capabilities. India's Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar had told Parliament last week that the government had earlier this year withdrawn a 2007 tender for 126 MMRCA, a contest in which Rafale was chosen by India.
The two squadrons of F-16C/D variants of Pakistan Air Force (PAF) have superior electronic warfare capabilities and that's what is worrying the IAF commanders, the highly-placed government official, who did not wish to be identified, citing service rules, said in a tête-à-tête with Arming India on July 30, 2015.

"It is not the BVR (Beyond Visual Range) air battles, but the close air battles that the Su-30s can't match up with the F-16C/D variants. The PAF planes have superior electronic warfare capabilities and the contemporary air battles rely more on EW capabilities to beat an enemy combat plane in a one-on-one dogfight," the official said.

The contemporary air battle strategies revolve around neutralizing enemy planes at beyond visual range. But there is a possibility that some enemy plane would sneak in through the air defense measures in place. In such a scenario, the enemy plane could wreak havoc on the Indian troops and assets on the ground. As a counter, fighter jets may have to be scrambled to take on the enemy plane one-on-one.

The official also noted that for every one F-16 that PAF has, India has to deploy two Su-30s if the enemy fleet is to be beaten. "If the F-16 goes after one Su-30, it can run and the other Su-30 can get a go at the enemy F-16. That way, the IAF has to deploy too many of its Su-30 resources for just countering the F-16s."

Do we need more F-16s or not?

 

[GEMINI]

You are Kafir for saying that.

the PAF needs 4 squadrons of F-16 Block 61 and two of F-16XL(lockheed martin must restart production line) and 5 squadrons of EFT with 4 of Gripen along with PN having six of Su-35 and Mig-35 each.. We also need to buy ten squadrons of J-10B and C along with replacing all Allouettes with NH-90 and Sea king with EH-101. For 5th gen we need to buy 15 squadrons of J-31 along with working with Turkey to buy ten squadrons of their TFX.

Finally we need 4 more Erieye and 6 more ZDK along with A-380 AEW doing JV with Belarus.

Good one; But why did you left out F22; Uae Mirages and F-15 etc. Not fair.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Lockheed's production line is still open for f16's, unless you passed another fatwa and had it shut down!

he's joking, who ever replied jokes on them

Not going to happen!! May be more F-16 block 52's as they'll be coming available soon from ANG as the -35 rolls out. Pakistan could make a case to the U.S., to retire a few squadrons a bit quicker. -60 will require cash....as that is a custom order block created for UAE and Israeli Sufa version.

I personally think it's time for PAF to get heavies. You'll need it the most against IN. Your EEZ has expanded by a few Hundred NM's. The JFT's or the -16's aren't enough due to shorter loiter time, specially during a conflict.

SU-35 or the J-16's would be ideal. J-11 if they upgrade the avionics to simultaneous target 4-6 enemy planes.

if you read whats he's saying he's being rhetorical.

You guys honestly deserve it. Block 60s,.. some guy going around posting off facebook pages on tank trials..
No wonder Shiekh Chilley was Pakistani.

well someone took a happy pill this morning.

 

[araz]

You are Kafir for saying that.

the PAF needs 4 squadrons of F-16 Block 61 and two of F-16XL(lockheed martin must restart production line) and 5 squadrons of EFT with 4 of Gripen along with PN having six of Su-35 and Mig-35 each.. We also need to buy ten squadrons of J-10B and C along with replacing all Allouettes with NH-90 and Sea king with EH-101. For 5th gen we need to buy 15 squadrons of J-31 along with working with Turkey to buy ten squadrons of their TFX.

Finally we need 4 more Erieye and 6 more ZDK along with A-380 AEW doing JV with Belarus.

Mufti Oscar halwa puri has spoken and issued a fatwa. All obey or have your heads chopped off.!!!!!

 

[Indus Falcon]

On a serious note, even just one or two squadrons of Blk61's could wreak havoc!

On the flip side, that would would mean a whole new platform for the PAF.

Had we played our cards right in Yemen, we would have gotten a lot of good hardware discounted, or free. But no we got scared by a bunch of Lungi nutcases!

 

[araz]

On a serious note, even just one or two squadrons of Blk61's could wreak havoc!

On the flip side, that would would mean a whole new platform for the PAF.

Had we played our cards right in Yemen, we would have gotten a lot of good hardware discounted, or free. But no we got scared by a bunch of Lungi nutcases!

I think there was much more to it than that.
The army is stretched to the limit. I need not emphasize the importance of the mission in North Waziristan and RS rightly deemed the delivery of manpower at this juncture to be fraught with difficulties.
I also think we never seem to get what other people manage to get out of the Arabs. it maybe that we are poor negotiators or the arabs rate us below their own arab speaking brothers.
The Iranian/Shia nexus although worthy of discussion is not that big an issue for Pakistan .However, with all else going on the last thing that you want is to stir up another faction when you least need it.
The fear is genuine that with the ISIS Bastards stepping in to Pakistan and our DUMB Awam supporting them in the name of their distorted version of Islam we would have had another Chaos on our hands. We may have controlled the floodgates for the while but is this a long term solution. I think not!
The other concern was who will command the advancement in to Yemen. I can bet you anything they wanted an Arab leader and Pakistani Army wanted their own independent action team. This would eventually have caused problems.
The PA has a pact to defend Saudi soil. In this case Saudi soil is not threatened and this involves invading another country to reinstate an allegedly friendly establishment. Frankly we have no need to involve ourselves with that.It is not our business and not of any strategic interest to us..
For whatever it is worth Saudi government has Pasha as an adviser and I suspect some behind the scene assurance of support in case of any escalation.So I think we have done our bit quietly behind the scene. We also need to remember that the parliament voted against incursion into Yemen so the policy has been set by the elected Government and the army has only abided by the decision
In Brief you can argue it both ways. I think what is happening is all behind the scene and it is evident by how the rhetoric has suddenly died down.
Araz

 

[Viper0011.]

I also think we never seem to get what other people manage to get out of the Arabs. it maybe that we are poor negotiators or the arabs rate us below their own arab speaking brothers..

The negotiation issue has existed pretty much throughout the entire history of Pakistan. I've written about it in many places. Because the negotiations are a civilian and democratic traits, and there has been little time with democracy in Pakistan, these institutions haven't been built.

The history of Pakistan shows you serious examples of where lack of negotiation and communication was evident. People are too short tempered. If a politicians doesn't seem to be working out, let's take the entire system out. This is very extreme. Same thing in politicians. IK doesn't like NS, let's start a campaign with no logic and do sit ins that damage the entire country. Not trying to bring in politics here but just making a point that negotiation skills don't exist. Overtime these will be developed. The Indians can negotiate the living out of anything. That's because they've always stayed inside a system where people discussed their things out in the Parliament (nasty or polite, that's a different story).

Another example is post 911, when Mushy was asked to cooperate, he had no choice. So obviously the decision was right. BUT, unlike a civilian government, he couldn't tell the US that look, we'll support you all the way. But please give us a month to make sure we assess the situation and tell a case to our voters; and tell you (the US) also, what would we need to support you.
A month after (similar to what happened with the Yemen situation), you go to the parliament, you build a case, and you assess damages. Ask the US politely that we are with you all the way. But will you also help us as a partner and get rid of all of our debt so we have a better chance at the future? Oh and btw, per year cost to support you, in addition to forgiving / paying off our national debt, will be $ 1 or 2 billion a year and here is the breakdown in a list, and another number to rebuild FATA with schools, universities and all so NOT to repeat the Mujahedeen drama and to be able to brainwsh these crazy people from the Talibans and put them to work, and jobs through the investments.

Its simple, black and white, shows Pakistan's willingness to help the US, and also outlined the fact that Pakistan wants a better future so the debt should go away, and that there will be expenses to support the US. Which is obviously expected.

This would only happen if there was a civilian rule. But because Mushy wasn't used to negotiations, he made the decision on one phone call and life moved forward.

Now fast forward to the topic, with the Arabs, the SAME situation. Pakistan did a pact with them to defend them. That's HUGE. But how do you defend someone when their opponents, say Israel for example, (although I don't consider them an opponent anymore), flies everything top tier from F-15's, F-16's and now soon to be inducted, the JSF??? Iran will be buying top tier jets the second sanctions are lifted!!!

So, someone needed to tell the Saudis that to defend you, we need modern warfare. We are not asking you to buy us EFT's or F-15's, but how about invest a couple of billions into the JFT program and buy some as a second tier, light combat fighter, and help us with your connections with the French in getting advanced avionics and missiles for the plane.
Imagine where this program would be if that had happened in 2010!! So I agree, the negotiation skills are not there yet. However, these should be built incrementally and get stronger as leaders start to hash their issues out in the Parliament and tell (and show with example) their vote bank to have patience, even if things aren't going in their favor. Tolerance is the key. You turn a nation to resolve issues inside their parliament, you've killed majority of the violence, whether social, political, ethnic or sectarian.
Because people learn to live with others with opposite opinion, and learn to discuss things out, and walk away, if someone doesn't agree with them, immediately reduces the tension. Apply that to a broader scale and society as a whole becomes tolerant to others, whether they look different, communicate differently, follow a different religion or vote for someone one doesn't like personally. This ability to sit down with someone you don't agree with, but you sit down for business, job or other mutual interests, is the key to success.

As we say in the US business industry, two people don't have to be friends to do business together and be successful. They just need to understand that a deal means both parties got something out if it so both the parties have to work towards their benefits and come to an understanding. If the deal was done correctly, both parties should be beneficial.

Indians have learned this art very well. I'll give them that.But I see Pakistanis struggle with individualism. Primarily because an established system where people work together was never shows to them from their childhood. It always been a One Army Chief running the country, a one man show. Naturally, seeing that from age 2 till 22....what would you believe in? You've ALWAYS seen a One Man Show so you think that way even you don't realize it. You think its just You as one man to tackle all challenges.

On the other hand, speaking similar language and being in the same culture, the Indians saw it differently. They saw and learned the democratic system, the power to negotiate and the ability to put your point across, even with differences and still get benefits out of it. There never was a ONE man, there has always been a SYSTEM and a Parliament they go to and give their destiny in the people's hands elected through votes for 5 years. Clearly, the democratic system shows success and prosperity and growth for all, be it India, the US, or anywhere else!!

@MastanKhan : I thought I'd invite you to this post too, similar topic about a system's benefits. Your input would be valuable. And I'll respond to that other post of yours when I get a chance tomorrow.

 

[knight11]

well just because theres rumours that PAF is going to buy the su35 does not make it the best fighter in the world, and the EFT can only be a poster on the wall for PAF. but you need to face facts, reality. the eft is better.

HELLO BUDDY
It is not the matter of EFT or the J31 or the Su 35 or F-16 blk 60 first question is
1 what will be the ROLE. Either for the air superiority, ground attack, Interceptor or the multirole.
2. Price ?
3. Against whom ?