Navy SEALs set to open to women, top admiral says

[Thunder Bolt]

The Navy is planning to open its elite SEAL teams to women who can pass the grueling training regimen, the service's top officer said Tuesday in an exclusive interview.

Adm. Jon Greenert said he and the head of Naval Special Warfare Command, Rear Adm. Brian Losey, believe that if women can pass the legendary six-month Basic Underwater Demolition/SEAL training, they should be allowed to serve.

"Why shouldn't anybody who can meet these [standards] be accepted? And the answer is, there is no reason," Greenert said Tuesday in an exclusive interview with Navy Times and its sister publication Defense News. "So we're on a track to say, 'Hey look, anybody who can meet the gender non-specific standards, then you can become a SEAL.'"

Greenert's full interview is set to air Sunday morning on "Defense News with Vago Muradian."


MILITARYTIMES

Officials: Military likely to open most combat jobs to women


The push to integrate the storied SEAL brotherhood is coming on the heels of a comprehensive review led by Losey, the head of Naval Special Warfare Command, that recommended women be allowed under the same exacting standards required of male candidates. Final approval is still pending. The Army and Air Force are also moving to open all combat jobs to women, according to officials who spoke to the Associated Press. It's believed the Marine Corps may seek to keep its ground combat jobs, including the infantry, male-only.


NAVY TIMES

SECNAV: SEALs should open to women under fair standards


The move to integrate the military's most storied commando units comes the day afternews broke that two women had passed the Army's arduous Ranger course. Nineteen women began the course, which has about a 45 percent passing rate.

The Navy has said it is on track to open all ratings to women by next year, but this is the first indication that the SEALs are leaning toward accepting candidates. Greenert didn't specify a timeline for allowing women candidates into BUD/S training.

Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command is also conducting a review of its standards with an eye to including women, according MARSOC head Maj. Gen. Joseph Osterman.

The SEALs would be the latest, and the last, of the traditionally male-only branches to open to women during Mabus' tenure.

In 2011, the first female officers reported to ballistic missile submarines, and early this year several more reported to Virginia-class attack subs. Enlisted women are on track to join them next year and the service is already recruiting enlisted women off the streets to enter submarine ratings.

And in 2012, riverine training opened to women, making way for the go-ahead to assign them to billets and deploy them last year.

It's not clear how many women will attempt to join the SEALs when it opens to them. The percentage of women in expeditionary specialties, like Seabees and Navy divers, are exceedingly low.


MARINE CORPS TIMES

MARSOC conducts integration assessment for female operators


Out of an end strength of 1,153, there are only seven female Navy divers — just .61 percent of the force. And there are only 10 women in the Explosive Ordnance Disposal community of the 1,094 total enlisted sailors.

EOD officers fill billets at EOD and fleet diver commands — billets that have also been open to women for decades — but less than 3 percent of those billets are held by women.

Marine Corps Times Staff Writer Hope Hodge Seck contributed to this report.

 

[Side-Winder]

Women can never achieve the same standards as set for the Male counterparts when it comes to special ops. There are obvious physical limits. But i'd welcome this decision.

 

[Abingdonboy]

The Navy is planning to open its elite SEAL teams to women who can pass the grueling training regimen, the service's top officer said Tuesday in an exclusive interview.

Adm. Jon Greenert said he and the head of Naval Special Warfare Command, Rear Adm. Brian Losey, believe that if women can pass the legendary six-month Basic Underwater Demolition/SEAL training, they should be allowed to serve.

"Why shouldn't anybody who can meet these [standards] be accepted? And the answer is, there is no reason," Greenert said Tuesday in an exclusive interview with Navy Times and its sister publication Defense News. "So we're on a track to say, 'Hey look, anybody who can meet the gender non-specific standards, then you can become a SEAL.'"

Greenert's full interview is set to air Sunday morning on "Defense News with Vago Muradian."


MILITARYTIMES

Officials: Military likely to open most combat jobs to women


The push to integrate the storied SEAL brotherhood is coming on the heels of a comprehensive review led by Losey, the head of Naval Special Warfare Command, that recommended women be allowed under the same exacting standards required of male candidates. Final approval is still pending. The Army and Air Force are also moving to open all combat jobs to women, according to officials who spoke to the Associated Press. It's believed the Marine Corps may seek to keep its ground combat jobs, including the infantry, male-only.


NAVY TIMES

SECNAV: SEALs should open to women under fair standards


The move to integrate the military's most storied commando units comes the day afternews broke that two women had passed the Army's arduous Ranger course. Nineteen women began the course, which has about a 45 percent passing rate.

The Navy has said it is on track to open all ratings to women by next year, but this is the first indication that the SEALs are leaning toward accepting candidates. Greenert didn't specify a timeline for allowing women candidates into BUD/S training.

Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command is also conducting a review of its standards with an eye to including women, according MARSOC head Maj. Gen. Joseph Osterman.

The SEALs would be the latest, and the last, of the traditionally male-only branches to open to women during Mabus' tenure.

In 2011, the first female officers reported to ballistic missile submarines, and early this year several more reported to Virginia-class attack subs. Enlisted women are on track to join them next year and the service is already recruiting enlisted women off the streets to enter submarine ratings.

And in 2012, riverine training opened to women, making way for the go-ahead to assign them to billets and deploy them last year.

It's not clear how many women will attempt to join the SEALs when it opens to them. The percentage of women in expeditionary specialties, like Seabees and Navy divers, are exceedingly low.


MARINE CORPS TIMES

MARSOC conducts integration assessment for female operators


Out of an end strength of 1,153, there are only seven female Navy divers — just .61 percent of the force. And there are only 10 women in the Explosive Ordnance Disposal community of the 1,094 total enlisted sailors.

EOD officers fill billets at EOD and fleet diver commands — billets that have also been open to women for decades — but less than 3 percent of those billets are held by women.

Marine Corps Times Staff Writer Hope Hodge Seck contributed to this report.

Political correctness in the West is eroding away their core competencies, the next "full" war they get into will be brutal and bloody and they ill rue this political decision making.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I suppose rape problem in normal ranks was not enough , now the SEAL would also be thinking about distractions while on missions

The US Military's Sexual-Assault Problem Is So Bad the UN Is Getting Involved | Mother Jones

The US military has a problem with sexual violence. That's the conclusion of the Universal Periodic Review Panel, a UN panel that aims to address the human rights records of the 193 UN member states. This is the second time that the panel has scrutinized the United States; the first was in 2010, when the list of concerns included detention in Guantanamo Bay, torture, the death penalty, and access to health care. Its latest report came out Monday morning, and there was a surprising addition to the predictable laundry list of US human rights violations.

Inone of 12 final recommendations, the UN Council urged the US military "to prevent sexual violence in the military and ensure effective prosecution of offenders and redress for victims." Other recommendations included stopping the militarization of police forces, closing Guantanamo Bay, ending the death penalty, and stopping NSA surveillance of citizens.

For years US lawmakers and activists have complained about sexual assault in the military, but this is the first time the United Nations has addressed the issue.

Representatives from Denmark and Slovenia were especially outspoken in their criticism of the United States for not doing enough to prevent and prosecute alleged cases of sexual assault. Vojislav Šuc, Slovenia's representative, encouraged the US to "redouble efforts to prevent sexual violence in the military and ensure protection of offenders and redress for victims."

Stephanie Schroeder, a military sexual-assault survivor who traveled to Geneva for the hearing, said in a press release, "Today's outcome shows that redress can be won before the UN—and hopefully lead to meaningful change back home."

The UN panels likely decided to investigate US military sexual violence in response to a report last year from the Service Women's Action Network and Cornell Law School's Avon Global Center for Women and Justice and the Global Gender Justice Clinic. It analyzed statistics from the Department of Defense, survivors' stories from federal cases, and interviews with survivors.

Thereport concluded, "In cases where an act of sexual assault has already been committed in the military, the U.S. oftentimes fails to promptly and impartially prosecute and effectively redress the assault and thereby violates servicemen and women's rights under international law."

The UN Human Rights Council evaluation targeted the military'sreporting process, in which the decision of whether to prosecute cases of alleged sexual assault or harassment is left to superiors in the chain of command rather than an outsider with experience in sexual assault. For years, activists and lawmakers in the United States have tried to change this protocol—but leaders in the military have balkedat bringing civilians into bases and military academies to investigate alleged assaults. Advocates say that commanders should not be in charge of handling these cases, since they are not trained in legal or criminal matters and often directly supervise both the victim and the perpetrator. Victims often are afraid to report the assault, fearing retribution or inaction. In a 2014 RAND Corporation survey of service members who reported sexual assaults, 62 percent of those who respondedclaimed they experienced social or professional retaliation after reporting unwanted sexual harassment, including being fired.

Denmark's representative to the UN Human Rights Council, Carsten Staur, recommended "removing from the chain of command the decision about whether to prosecute cases of alleged assault." His comments marked the "first time that a human rights body has called upon the U.S. to remove key decision-making authority from the chain of command in cases alleging sexual violence," noted Liz Brundige, the Avon Global Center's director, in a press release.

The State Department, the Pentagon, and the US representative to the United Nations did not respond to requests for comment on the council report.

When the UN Human Rights Council last reviewed the United States in 2010, the US government promised to respond to all of the recommendations—including improvements to health care, criminal justice, and other areas of concern—with a written report of goals. This year, the UN Human Rights Council commended the US for six areas of "positive achievement," including strengthening the social welfare system in the United States, creating a task force on 21st-century policing, taking some measures to address violence against women, upholding some of the rights of LGBT individuals, improving access to health care, and releasing details on CIA interrogation techniques. When the panel reviews the United States again, the US will have to update the United Nations on its progress on sexual assault in the military.

Of course, the problem of military sexual assault is not limited to the United States. Last year, Swedish UN official Anders Kompass leaked to French authorities an internal investigation detailing allegations that French soldiers on a peacekeeping mission in the Central African Republic raped children and traded food for sex. Kompass said that he leaked the report because he was concerned that the United Nations would not disclose its findings or take action. Just last week, after the report was revealed by the Guardian, French prosecutors launched an investigation into the allegations. The whistleblower is now under internal investigation, according to the UN secretary general's office, for a "serious breach in protocol" and risking victims' privacy. French President Francois Hollande has declared he "will be merciless" if the allegations are proven true.

 

[Amaa'n]

Women can never achieve the same standards as set for the Male counterparts when it comes to special ops. There are obvious physical limits. But i'd welcome this decision.

I am of view the these Spec Ops team require the physicak endurance and that is.muscle endurance.....coupled with state of mind i.e sound mind......and i believe women can achieve both, thoigh may require additional resources on muscle conditioning

 

[Abingdonboy]

I am of view the these Spec Ops team require the physicak endurance and that is.muscle endurance.....coupled with state of mind i.e sound mind......and i believe women can achieve both, thoigh may require additional resources on muscle conditioning

Other than elite athletes (the top 0.0000001%)I don't see any women being up to the physical demands of SF units.

 

[untitled]

The British SAS tried to recruit woman too including one of Pakistani origin

Here is her story



In the end none of the girls made it

 

[Fenrir]

there are only seven female Navy divers

Ask Technogaianist when I give her account back what being a female military diver is like.

RNoAF Rescue Swimmers must qualify as divers as Norway's SAR operations take place primary over the North Sea and Skagerrak Straight:

As did I as a submariner, for emergency rescue purposes, but I'm not a women so it's less exclusive. And if women can pass SEAL training, then fu** yeah they should be accepted.

Women passed Ranger school, they can pass SEAL training too:

Two Very Badass Women Will Graduate U.S. Army Ranger School For First Time

2 Women Are Graduating From Army Ranger School

Other than elite athletes (the top 0.0000001%)I don't see any women being up to the physical demands of SF units.

Ranger!

First women to be Army Rangers

 

[Abingdonboy]

Women passed Ranger school, they can pass SEAL training too:

Two Very Badass Women Will Graduate U.S. Army Ranger School For First Time

2 Women Are Graduating From Army Ranger School





Ranger!

First women to be Army Rangers

These women passed the Ranger course (earning the Ranger tab)- anyone in the US army is entitled to go through this leadership course, but have not passed Ranger selection and are not eligible to join the 75th Ranger Regiment- these women are NOT Rangers.

It is also not clear if the standards for these two women faced were the same as their male counterparts in this course.

+ SEAL selection is arguably more arduous and testing than Ranger selection (which these women have not even passed). I think the most compelling evidence is that not a single women has passed the USMC's infantry officer course despite it being open to females for a few years now.

 

[Fenrir]

These women passed the Ranger course (earning the Ranger tab)- anyone in the US army is entitled to go through this leadership course, but have not passed Ranger selection and are not eligible to join the 75th Ranger Regiment- these women are NOT Rangers.

I know that. But as the OP states, women are now being allowed into SEAL training too, but may not be accepted into the actual force. Still, women can and have been proven to be able to pass the Ranger course, it's laws and regulation that are holding up their selection.

It is also not clear if the standards for these two women faced were the same as their male counterparts in this course.

This is a debate that's played out a lot in the US since the women in SOF conversation stated. Care has been taken to ensure all persons are tested the same and that the standards of judgement are not lowered for anyone. They went through the same course as did the men and were scored the same.

I don't see any women being up to the physical demands of SF units.

I talked to Technogaianist about this, you can ask her for more details, but women have passed and been accepted into FSK. She text me this picture.

Forsvarets Spesialkommando

It's not unheard of, Norwegian special forces, including FSK, have had women accepted into their ranks.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I know that. But as the OP states, women are now being allowed into SEAL training too, but may not be accepted into the actual force. Still, women can and have been proven to be able to pass the Ranger course, it's laws and regulation that are holding up their selection.

The Ranger course these women have passed is different to the Ranger selection process to enter the 75th Ranger regiment. The Ranger course is open to all branches of the US Army (and other units of the US Mil) and is more of a leadership course, Ranger selection is a separate process, held separately.

Passing the Ranger course does not make one (male or female) capable of serving in the 75th Ranger regiment.

Talked to Technogaianist about this, you can ask her for more details, but women have passed and been accepted into FSK. She text me this picture.

I was actually aware of this, again, I am unsure if these female operators passed the same selection process as their male counterparts.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Its all fun and games until women get POW status

 

[Abingdonboy]

Its all fun and games until women get POW status

If they have POW status then you are dealing with a civilised adversary, it is when they get captured and don't get POW status that is more concerning.

 

[Fenrir]

The Ranger course these women have passed is different to the Ranger selection process to enter the 75th Ranger regiment. The Ranger course is open to all branches of the US Army (and other units of the US Mil) and is more of a leadership course, Ranger selection is a separate process, held separately.

You are aware that RASP (the formal selection process) is considered easier than Ranger School right? Ranger school is the main selection program, the one that weeds out the poorly qualified candidates. RASP just makes sure you're ready for your first deployment and don't get killed as soon as you hit the ground. If they can pass Ranger School they can pass RASP and make Ranger.

it's the laws and regulations, not their physical abilities that are the deciding factor here.

And remember, BUD/s is considered to be hell too, and it's before SEAL training even starts. If selection percentages are anything to go by, BUD/s is more difficult that SEAL training, considering its massive washout rate:

http://archive.navytimes.com/news/2007/04/navy_sealrecruiting_training_070408w/

These pre-selection programs are designed to screen unworthy candidates while the selection programs further refine them, but not to radically.

I was actually aware of this, again, I am unsure if these female operators passed the same selection process as their male counterparts.

Talk to her about it on Friday. I doubt Norway is hamstringing itself for the sake of political correctness. They don't have the resources or manpower to waste time with personnel that can't hack the requirements of their most elite units.

I was actually aware of this, again, I am unsure if these female operators passed the same selection process as their male counterparts.

Here's an interesting counterpoint. Are Men going through the same program either? Or have standards been lowered for them too?

Why Are Standards Plummeting in the Ranger Assessment and Selection Program? | SOFREP

Just a thought.

In any event I'm not SOF, I don't know if I would have made the qualifications, but sub crews are put through a hell that few others are. I could be wrong, but I know women have passed SOF course. They've got just as much balls as we do.

 

[Abingdonboy]

You are aware that RASP is considered easier than Ranger School right? Ranger school is the main selection program, the one that weeds out the poorly qualified candidates. RASP just makes sure you're ready for your first deployment and don't get killed as soon as you hit the ground. If they can pass Ranger School they can pass RASP and make Ranger.

it's the laws and regulations, not their physical abilities that are the deciding factor here.

Well from what I have heard the RASP is far more physically taxing than Ranger School. Ranger school is conducted by the Ranger Training Brigade (not the 75th Ranger Regiment) and is the US army's premier leadership course that is taxing as mentally as physically but is not a selection process for the 75th.

Having gone through Ranger school is not always a prerequisite to join the Ranger regiment, being able to pass Ranger school will not make one able to pass the RASP.