NATO will never win Afghan war

[gambit]

Indeed , you did oust the Taliban from power but what did it achieve for you ?

And we did it with only the USAF, Special Ops, and the local Afghans. Not with everything we have like everyone would like to believe.

Are the Talibans finished ? Still controlling the 72% of Afghanistan , aren' they ? ... Poised to retake Afghanistan the moment you abandon the country ! **** ! I forgot they aren't even the enemy ... Who are you fighting then ? Martians in Kandahar ? That puppet Govt which doesn't even control Kabul and is limited to presidential palace ... US military which cant roam freely in the areas that they even somehow control ... You had every design for that country even before the war started but due to lack of stability , you cant do nothing there ... Cant exploit mineral wealth nor enslave the population who hates you so much ... Didn't you want to maintain a considerable presence there to keep an eye on China and Russia and influence Central Asia ? What happened to it ?

And everything you said mean we have no nefarious intent for Afghanistan and that Afghanistan and the people is doomed to a life of 7th century backwardness despite our best humanitarian efforts, which is a lot more than anyone can say for the muslims who abandoned the country long before we got in. Good job.

If you kept your money in your banks and invested it for the good of your people, Saddam would have been removed like the other dictators with the revolutions that happened with much less cost in money and human lives. More than 500,000 iraqies died in Iraq due to this unwanted war. Countless number of kids are living under poverty now with zero education now... Iraq is much less safer than it was under saddam. Education was much better under saddam... there was never a war between different religious groups under saddam and in fact they were living in peace and marrying from each other... until, that war happened which divided Iraq into three groups...

I can go on with the list of comparison that speaks the truth behind a war that brought nothing but division to Iraq, poverty, fear, insecurity, mass killing, AND SECURITY TO ISRAEL.

And how many dictators, including your own in SA, that got removed by revolutions before we got into Iraq? How many of you were brave and strong enough to rescue Kuwait? And if we had not led that war, how many Kuwaitis and other people in the region would have died? Face it, you were too chickenshit to take on Saddam and now you are just insulting US to save your own faces.

 

[Secur]

And everything you said mean we have no nefarious intent for Afghanistan and that Afghanistan and the people is doomed to a life of 7th century backwardness despite our best humanitarian efforts, which is a lot more than anyone can say for the muslims who abandoned the country long before we got in. Good job.

Possibly , you didn't read it careful enough ? ... Didn't answer any of my queries and now desperately trying to change topic and declare a straight victory

Better luck next time !

 

[gambit]

Possibly , you didn't read it careful enough ? ... Didn't answer any of my queries and now desperately trying to change topic and declare a straight victory

Better luck next time !

I read it carefully enough and got the same stale routine.

 

[lem34]

I read it carefully enough and got the same stale routine.

No point in taking too much time on this Vietnamese American he has banana boat syndrome. He has to prove to himself he is American a bit like VC no amount of evidence will satisfy him that Americans are losers.

 

[Secur]

Indeed , you did oust the Taliban from power but what did it achieve for you ? Are the Talibans finished ? Still controlling the 72% of Afghanistan , aren' they ? ... Poised to retake Afghanistan the moment you abandon the country ! **** ! I forgot they aren't even the enemy ... Who are you fighting then ? Martians in Kandahar ? That puppet Govt which doesn't even control Kabul and is limited to presidential palace ... US military which cant roam freely in the areas that they even somehow control ... You had every design for that country even before the war started but due to lack of stability , you cant do nothing there ... Cant exploit mineral wealth nor enslave the population who hates you so much ... Didn't you want to maintain a considerable presence there to keep an eye on China and Russia and influence Central Asia ? What happened to it ?

Yes you achieved too much than anyone's limited vision and rationality can see

You can try again ...

 

[Banu Umayyah]

And we did it with only the USAF, Special Ops, and the local Afghans. Not with everything we have like everyone would like to believe.


And everything you said mean we have no nefarious intent for Afghanistan and that Afghanistan and the people is doomed to a life of 7th century backwardness despite our best humanitarian efforts, which is a lot more than anyone can say for the muslims who abandoned the country long before we got in. Good job.


And how many dictators, including your own in SA, that got removed by revolutions before we got into Iraq? How many of you were brave and strong enough to rescue Kuwait? And if we had not led that war, how many Kuwaitis and other people in the region would have died? Face it, you were too chickenshit to take on Saddam and now you are just insulting US to save your own faces.

You caused Iraq to invade Kuwait. You were preparing for the war before Saddam did anything. You forced Kuwaitis to provoke him to invade.
We didn't ask for your help, you had to lie to us and fake satellite photos to convince us that Saddam was planning to invade us. Stop pretending that you were some kind of a rescuer.

How many dictators were ousted? 4 and the fifth in a few months, Saddam was definitely going to be one of them.

How many Kuwaitis would have died? I would say very few. Saddam was not committing massacres, like you lied to your congress.

 

[gambit]

You caused Iraq to invade Kuwait. You were preparing for the war before Saddam did anything. You forced Kuwaitis to provoke him to invade.

Ah...So it is the Kuwaitis' fault.

We didn't ask for your help, you had to lie to us and fake satellite photos to convince us that Saddam was planning to invade us. Stop pretending that you were some kind of a rescuer.

How many dictators were ousted? 4 and the fifth in a few months, Saddam was definitely going to be one of them.

How many Kuwaitis would have died? I would say very few. Saddam was not committing massacres, like you lied to your congress.

Am willing to bet you were not even old enough to realize what was happening around you. I was deployed there. I saw first hand the results of the Iraqi Army visit to Kuwait. Yours is the typical respond of someone willing to twist history out of spite for US.

 

[Al-Otaibi]

Sunni Shia rivalry in Iraq goes back hundreds of years. And while Iraqi's are concerned about the future. Most are glad to see Saddam gone.

The diversity of the Iraqi people is not the problem and not the point... the point is dividing them and creating wars between them which was a result of the unneeded war...... This is a small effect of the war when compared to the list i showed you in the last message.

 

[Banu Umayyah]

Ah...So it is the Kuwaitis' fault.


Am willing to bet you were not even old enough to realize what was happening around you. I was deployed there. I saw first hand the results of the Iraqi Army visit to Kuwait. Yours is the typical respond of someone willing to twist history out of spite for US.

Yes, I was two years old but watch this:

I also would be outraged of my country wasted trillions of hard working tax payers money for absolutely no reason. Not only that, but it made things worse geopolitically!
1) Iraq is still a dictatorship.
2) Iraq is Iran's 24th province now. Your biggest enemy is therefore much stronger.
3) You have no military base in Iraq, because Iran said NO, by US officials admission.
What an epic disastrous FAIL. How much stronger/richer/respected US would have been if it didn't invade Iraq, specially considering it could have waited for the Arab spring and do the Libyan scenario.
The only way to redeem your self is help us out with Syria, your sins will be forgiven

 

[King Solomon]

Again , you are back tracking from your last statement ... What strategic objectives has the US achieved ? Has it increased its influence in Central Asia or Iran ? Hell , it has become dependent on them now ! Just think what happens if the Russians close the NDN ? Think of any way , the US can fight any longer ? Your supposed " achieved US objectives " change by every post ... May I know Why ?

No , you of course you dont need to enslave the population ... You atleast need to eradicate the group of people you claimed you were fighting against and they were your die-hard enemies - AQ and Taliban ... Has it happened in 10 years ? Please do not bring up the ridiculous nuclear argument ... Because if world ran like that , it wouldn't have survived till now ...

Yeah , let us not speculate however there is a very high probability of that happening , only time will tell ..

If you do not believe what I posted, you may wish to read this article. It discusses whether the objective of Afghan war has been achieved or not:

www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/R40156.pdf

 

[Thomas]

More Like destroying the country and then abandoning it ! Zero Stability and daily bomb blasts ! Victory !

Actually we were asked by the Iraqi Government to speed up our withdrawl so no abandonment issues there.

 

[LeGenD]

Check again , they wont be Afghans since

Taliban Control 72% of Afghanistan, Surround Kabul


The International Council on Security and Development, which has fulltime offices in Afghanistan, said in a report that Taliban fighters have advanced out of their bases in the south and east and are infiltrating Kabul at will.

“The Taliban are now dictating terms in Afghanistan, both politically and militarily,” Paul Burton, ICOS Director of Policy, said. “There is a real danger the Taliban will simply overrun Afghanistan.”

“While the international community’s prospects in Afghanistan have never been bleaker, the Taliban has been experiencing a renaissance that has gained momentum since 2005,” ICOS said. The presence of the Islamist group in Afghanistan has increased from 54 to 72 percent over the past year, according to the report.

ICOS report is meaningless.

I do not consider Taliban controlling 72% of Afghanistan as a victory for Americans despite having the most technologically advanced army in the world , the best they have done is a kill a guy called Osama who was ( as they themselves acknowledge ) a nobody at the time of his death ! Is there stability in Afghanistan ? Is Kabul safe ? Does the Afghan Govt have jurisdiction over its areas ? Can the NATO troops move around freely at will ? Have they completely eradicated the AQ and Taliban menace which ironically they created themselves ?

US forces have eliminated thousands of Taliban fighters too.

Now explain to me that which strategically important region is under control of Taliban?

And ISAF forces do lurk in regions where Taliban activities are at their peak.

At least be able to defend the places properly you control ! I can consider it as victory ... But even that isn't there ... And cm'on the US is only able to control 28% as per the reports ...
Which means the Taliban are technically dictating terms and controlling Afghanistan ...
Whilst Karzai can sit in Kabul and be a proud owner and ruler of his presidential palace !
What real power does he have even ?

You ousted the Govt , but all know the Taliban will gain power the moment NATO leaves the country , is there any doubt ? How can you keep the puppet Govt in power after you leave ?

So what did you achieve after spending trillions in 10 years when eventually the bad guys would return to rule and you will back to square one ? Is it objective achieved and mission successful ?

Do not bring up the ANA please ! I prefer my local security guards for they are better than them

You make it sound like as if ISAF controlled regions are under constant siege from Taliban?

Pakistani GHQ itself has been targeted by terrorists. Does this means that terrorists control Pakistan?

If the answer is , then I am sure you understand why the US only is desperate for negotiation and settlement , not the other way around , Taliban can fight for 10 more years , they aren't ready for compromise , Can the Yanks do as their major partners leave in 2013 or maybe a little earlier ?

Negotiations are in the best interest of all stakeholders in Afghanistan. Otherwise, civil war will continue and many more people will die. Get the picture now?

My my if some can regard what has happened in Afghanistan as an American victory what would they call an actual victory lol

You should understand that to achieve victory in Afghanistan, Taliban has to take Kabul.

Kabul is the main 'nerve centre' of Afghanistan. Kabul, as the capital, is the hub of political, educational, economic, diplomatic and military activity.

ISAF actually controls all locations of strategic importance in Afghanistan. This is the most important thing.

America's stated aims and actual aims differ somewhat. There is no way in a month of Sundays for the reasons stated in the OP can this be considered a victory for America. They are well down the road of bankruptcy due.

Please stop promoting this nonsense. It is getting old.

 

[lem34]

ICOS report is meaningless.


US forces have eliminated thousands of Taliban fighters too.

Now explain to me that which strategically important region is under control of Taliban?

And ISAF forces do lurk in regions where Taliban activities are at their peak.


You make it sound like as if ISAF controlled regions are under constant siege from Taliban?

Pakistani GHQ itself has been targeted by terrorists. Does this means that terrorists control Pakistan?


Negotiations are in the best interest of all stakeholders in Afghanistan. Otherwise, civil war will continue and many more people will die. Get the picture now?


You should understand that to achieve victory in Afghanistan, Taliban has to take Kabul.

Kabul is the main 'nerve centre' of Afghanistan. Kabul, as the capital, is the hub of political, educational, economic, diplomatic and military activity.

ISAF actually controls all locations of strategic importance in Afghanistan. This is the most important thing.


Please stop promoting this nonsense. It is getting old.

The only one that is promoting propaganda nonsense is people like you. Every nation has had its share of traitors.

Even many in the west regard Iraq and Afghan wars as failures for them. But people like you come along to find the silver lining on the cloud for them.

Did America want Iran to have the influence on Iraq it has today-no

In Afghanistan American position is so ridiculous they are hoping their corporations can come in and skim money from pipelines when the land mass where the pipelines are going to go through is surrounded by people who hate America.

 

[LeGenD]

The only one that is promoting propaganda nonsense is people like you. Every nation has had its share of traitors.

Even many in the west regard Iraq and Afghan wars as failures for them. But people like you come along to find the silver lining on the cloud for them.

People say lot of things. I focus on 'ground realities' and not propaganda like you do. I know, truth hurts.

Did America want Iran to have the influence on Iraq it has today-no

We have been through this. Saddam is gone and Iraq is no longer a threat to US interests in Middle East. These were the objectives of US. If Iraq wishes to amend its relationship with Iran then this should not concern US. And if you believe that Iran can turn Iraq in to its puppet; you are gravely mistake then. Iraq is no hezbollah.

In Afghanistan American position is so ridiculous they are hoping their corporations can come in and skim money from pipelines when the land mass where the pipelines are going to go through is surrounded by people who hate America.

Afghan game is a very long and complex one.

 

[lem34]

People say lot of things. I focus on 'ground realities' and not propaganda like you do. I know, truth hurts.

In your opinion.

We have been through this. Saddam is gone and Iraq is no longer a threat to US interests in Middle East. These objective have been met. If Iraq wishes to amend its relationship with Iran then this should not concern US. And if you believe that Iran can turn Iraq in to its puppet; you are gravely mistake then. Iraq is no hezbollah.


.

Stop rambling my assertion stands