NATO Summit: Pakistan Offers No Quarter

[VCheng]

They can agree to our terms earlier than that and we won't drag it unnecessarily.
...............

The full 14 point list, or the three main ones: apology, no drones, and higher transit fees? Even with these three, things may not work out as well as Pakistan is hoping for.

SCS and Drone strikes are like oil and water. Lekin aap ideas de doh, hasbe-rawayat.

I am not sure I understand what you mean here. I was responding to a post asking about China's possible role in supporting Pakistan's stance against NATO.

 

[Farah Sohail]

US should have expected this.. Their snub to Pak at Chicago summit could backfire

BBC News - Pakistan's 'tough line' after Chicago

 

[JonAsad]

Its high time for Zardari to become an hero of the nation which will surely help him to get re elected for the next term-
Aik Zadari even USA or NATO per bhari- Respect !!!!

 

[VCheng]

US should have expected this.. Their snub to Pak at Chicago summit could backfire

BBC News - Pakistan's 'tough line' after Chicago

It is more likely that Pakistan's double down bet will backfire than USA's actions in Chicago.

Its high time for Zardari to become an hero of the nation which will surely help him to get re elected for the next term-
Aik Zadari even USA or NATO per bhari- Respect !!!!

Zardari is no hero, and never will be one. He is a high thief, and that is all he will ever be.

 

[iPhone]

You really should try and comprehend this excellent post:



It is not a matter for "you guys", but Pakistan itself runs a great risk of being "damned if they do and damned if they don't kind of scenario" if it does not change its policies, and soon.

hmm, the perspective put forth in the post isn't exactly a new revelation to us. We know the number of ways US helps Pakistan. Does civil and military trade with Pak. Is involved in many civilian construction projects.

For Pak's rightful demand in return for NATO supply routes US can take unjust action and punish Pakistan by withdrawing support from many of it's project.

But the question is to what end? Can US afford to totally isolate itself from Pak? with the fear of Pak's stratgic assets on the line that US is often worried about. And Iran right next door..... I'll just leave it at that.

I dont' think it will go to those extreme ends. All that for a few billion dollars and an apology isn't very likely. This rift for the most part isn't with the US but with Obama and his inner circle. Obama has made this an issue of ego.

Besides, this is a huge lesson for Pakistan. You wanna survive, then stand up on your feet and look elsewhere as well to do buisness as well. Something that I feel this bunch has started to do.

 

[VCheng]

.........

But the question is to what end? Can US afford to totally isolate itself from Pak? with the fear of Pak's stratgic assets on the line that US is often worried about. And Iran right next door..... I'll just leave it at that.

I agree with you in that both countries cannot afford to break off completely, and thus a middle of the road solution with both sides offering concessions will need to be worked out.

I dont' think it will go to those extreme ends. All that for a few billion dollars and an apology isn't very likely. This rift for the most part isn't with the US but with Obama and his inner circle. Obama has made this an issue of ego.

Obama is a very cool headed guy. It would be a mistake to think that he will make any decisions based on ego rather than US national interests. A huge mistake, in fact.

Besides, this is a huge lesson for Pakistan. You wanna survive, then stand up on your feet and look elsewhere as well to do buisness as well. Something that I feel this bunch has started to do.

I hope that you are correct.

 

[lem34]

It is more likely that Pakistan's double down bet will backfire than USA's actions in Chicago.

you also thought routes would be reopened within weeks

 

[VCheng]

you also thought routes would be reopened within weeks

Yes, and for the umpteenth time, let me say that I did not think Pakistani policies could be so shortsighted. Apparently, there is no limit to the stupidity of the present Pakistani leadership.

Pakistan could have made the same point much better with a shorter closure and come out better placed for further negotiations than the position in which it finds itself now.

 

[lem34]

Yes, and for the umpteenth time, let me say that I did not think Pakistani policies could be so shortsighted. Apparently, there is no limit to the stupidity of the present Pakistani leadership.
.

Go check your posts you suggested they didn't have the resolve. In any event your past posts have suggested you are not a well wisher of Pakistan but of America. Which is fine but we need to be aware there may be ulterior motives in what you propogate

 

[iPhone]

I agree with you in that both countries cannot afford to break off completely, and thus a middle of the road solution with both sides offering concessions will need to be worked out.



Obama is a very cool headed guy. It would be a mistake to think that he will make any decisions based on ego rather than US national interests. A huge mistake, in fact.



I hope that you are correct.

Look, I undertsand where you are coming from. Pakistan has made a very risky move. After decades of accepting US wishes as it's command, Pak is saying NO.

You gotta ask why? No one does this over night. I feel it's what has ensued in the last 4-6 years and especially under Obama. Even people in US see that.

For better or for worse Pak has made a decision. And that is to do "buisness" with the US. US isn't used to this tone from Pak so they have their own thing.

 

[VCheng]

Look, I undertsand where you are coming from. Pakistan has made a very risky move. After decades of accepting US wishes as it's command, Pak is saying NO.

You gotta ask why? No one does this over night. I feel it's what has ensued in the last 4-6 years and especially under Obama. Even people in US see that.

For better or for worse Pak has made a decision. And that is to do "buisness" with the US. US isn't used to this tone from Pak so they have their own thing.

I understand the whys very well of the closure. I only hope that the risks taken are worth the potential gains from the Pakistani point of view. All I am adding to what you are saying that, while it is Pakistan's right to say "no", it must also be prepared for the inevitable consequences. Saying "no" without due preparation would be foolish, and I will refer you to the condition of the economy as an example of not being ready to say "no".

Go check your posts you suggested they didn't have the resolve. In any event your past posts have suggested you are not a well wisher of Pakistan but of America. Which is fine but we need to be aware there may be ulterior motives in what you propogate

I used the word "resolve" assuming that top level decision makers would take into account ALL aspects of their decisions before they resolved to do anything. Well, apparently not!

I have no ulterior motives, and it is wrong of you to translate our genuine differences of opinion into any lack of patriotism on my part. However, I have stopped expecting anything reasonable or fair from this forum, generally speaking of course, so it does not bother me. (I have only a few more posts to go.)

 

[airmarshal]

I'm not afraid of them. I fear that our own leaders and generals will sell us once again like they have done so many times before.

What if our government or GHQ agree to open supplies in return of few billions or brand new F16s? How would you people face the Americans and the Indians on this very board? I just warn you to be cautious and let the things become more transparent.

I m afraid of the sell out too. Like what General Musharraf did in 2001. Our generals are equally corrupt. We just keep blaming politicians who are small time thieves.

If generals dont get the money, how will they retire in style? How will they have more plots and infinite number of Defence Societies? How will they have new golf courses and agricultural farms. Those things are more important than progress and interest of the country.

General Musharraf did a great service to the Americans and Brits. We have an NRO govt., thankfully to him, which until recently was serving the interests of the foreigners more than of the country. Is it a perception? No I think it is a dismal reality.

 

[lem34]

I understand the
I have no ulterior motives, and it is wrong of you to translate our genuine differences of opinion into any lack of patriotism on my part. However, I have stopped expecting anything reasonable or fair from this forum, generally speaking of course, so it does not bother me. (I have only a few more posts to go.)

Sorry VC did not mean to question your patriotism. I think you are a true American patriot. You will remember when Gambit Juice you and I were posting and Juice said he would dies for you or Gambit??

 

[VCheng]

Sorry VC did not mean to question your patriotism. I think you are a true American patriot. You will remember when Gambit Juice you and I were posting and Juice said he would dies for you or Gambit??

Now you are trolling with personal snide remarks, but of course you have a licence to do so here, and I don't, so let's leave it at that.

I am a Pakistani-American, and I have duties to both countries.

 

[Jango]

Uh VCheng, you talking about premium membership or going to leave PDF?

Isn't premium on 8000 posts?