National Air Defense Command (NADCOM) - Updates & Discussions.

[The SC]

In Pakistani Version we have 8 missiles on each launcher.

Better yet!

Really massive deployment. At least with numbers. What about its range. If it's 40 and 10 for Mr and SR Sam

40 km (or 70), it is defensive with an 80% kill rate..look at the altitude too..low ad high..

In Pakistani Version we have 8 missiles on each launcher.

That makes it 1200 missiles in 15 systems, multiply it by two for the next batch and it will be 2400 missiles...

 

[Hallian_Khan]

we should thank india too for this lol you know what i mean

 

[khanasifm]

Ly80b or hq16b is just same radar system with modified missile taking missile range to 70km plus so its possible in future they can take range to 70km but may require$$$$

With thrust vectoring it's better the Russian derivatives

 

[Inception-06]

Better yet!


40 km (or 70), it is defensive with an 80% kill rate..look at the altitude too..low ad high..


That makes it 1200 missiles in 15 systems, multiply it by two for the next batch and it will be 2400 missiles...

2400 ? are you sure ?

 

[Zarvan]

FM-90 (HQ-7B) SR-SAM


Analyst Haris Khan of Pakistan Military Consortium think tank has disclosed that Pakistan has formed a new Integrated Army & Air Force Command to manage air defense operations across the country.

15 systems of LY-80 (HQ-16A) MR-SAM were ordered by the PAF in 2013. All were delivered by August 2016.
Another 15 systems might be ordered by the air force for providing air defense to all of its airfields and other sensitive installations.

PAF already operates Crotale and MBDA Spada 2000 SR-SAM's and HQ-2B MR-SAM.

Pakistan is in advanced talks with CPMIEC for purchasing several systems of the HQ-9 LR-SAM. The feasibility of integrating HQ-16 with HQ-9 SAM system has already been completed.

Pakistan has also completed the feasibility of incorporating FM-90 (HQ-7B) SR-SAM with Chinese CIWS for its Army.


HQ-16A Surface-to-air missile (SAM) system:

HQ-16 SAM

The HQ-16A is a Chinese-made surface-to-air missile defence system which was introduce in the Chinese armed forces in September 2011. This is a land based version of the HQ-16 system used in ships (and fired from VLS (Vertical Launch System) containers. The HQ-16A is based on a joint development of the Russian Buk-M1 (SA-11 'Gadfly') and Ural/Buk-2M (SA-17 'Grizzly') Surface-to-Air Missile (SAM) systems, for use from mobile ground vehicles and later from ships. The HQ-16A is able to engage aerial targets at high altitude; the mid-range HQ-16 is also able to intercept very low-flying targets at a distance of up to about 40 kilometers, filling the gap between the HQ-7 short-range SAM and the HQ-9 long-range SAM systems. The HQ-16A missile can hit targets of an altitude from 400 to 10,000 meters.

Technical Data

Design
The HQ-16A (LY-80) launcher missile system is carried by an 8x8 truck that contains a command and control station behind the cab, and behind those are six firing missile containers in two rows of three. These containers are tilted back so that the missiles can be fired straight up, just as they are from VLS (Vertical launch System) cells. In firing position, the wheels are raised off the ground and the carriage is supported at four points by hydraulic jacks, two at the rear and one on each side.

Missile
The HQ-16A (LY-80) missile can intercept an aerial flying target from an 15 m to 18 km of altitude, while its maximum interception range for combat aircraft is 40 km, and between 3.5 km and 12 km for cruise missiles flying at an altitude of 50 meters at a speed of 300 meters/second. Single-shot kill probability is a claimed figure of 85 per cent against combat aircraft, and 60 per cent against cruise missiles. The missile guidance system is of the composite type, comprising initial independent inertial guidance and intermittent illumination and semi-active homing terminal guidance.

Control and command systems
The HQ16A (LY-80) SAM components comprise a searching radar vehicle, command vehicle, radar tracking and guidance vehicle, launcher unit vehicle, and missiles canister. Technical support equipment includes missile transportation and loading vehicle, power supply vehicle, maintenance vehicle, and missile-test equipment. A single radar guidance vehicle controls two to four launcher units with six missiles ready to launch. The command vehicle is responsible to send target information and combat orders.
The searching radar vehicle is equipped with solid-state S-band 3-D passive phased-array radar mounted on the top of a mast. When the target is detected, the searching radar vehicle performs automatic IFF (Identification Friend-or-Foe), threat judgment, flight path processing and provide target engagement information for the tracking-and-guidance radar. The S-band radar has a range of 140 km and can detect targets flying at an altitude of 20 km.

IBIS150 3D Target Designation Radar

The tracking and guidance radar vehicle performs target acquisition and tracking, and identification of target types. It also controls the missile launching and illuminates the target after the missile is fired. L-band passive phased-array radar is mounted at the rear of the vehicle and has a range of 85 km. The L-band radar can detect up to six targets and track four of them, and provide fire-control/guidance for up to eight missiles.

@Horus @Windjammer @Quwa @Areesh @New Resolve @Oscar

We need to get PANTSIR S2 and also BUK M3

FD-3000 this should be considered also

 

[Gryphon]

15 systems like in the last picture means 10 launch vehicles with 6 missiles each, that makes it 60 missiles per system, multiplied by 15 makes 900 missiles..add another 15 systems and it is 1800 air-defense missiles.. something I was wishing for Pakistan; a massive integrated air-defense network, which will be completed by the HQ-9 and other systems..This forms a (air-defense) deterrent on its own

PAF has purchased 5 companies (each with 3 systems or batteries). Each system has 4 launcher vehicles. That is 4 x 6 = 24 is the number of missiles (loaded) at a time.

 

[The SC]

2400 ? are you sure ?

Look at the context of things, in my first post it was calculations based on 6 missiles per launcher, than someone said it was 8 missiles per launcher for Pakistan's version, so it is 2400 missiles in 30 systems, 15 are already there and 15 to come..

PAF has purchased 5 companies (each with 3 systems or batteries). Each system has 4 launcher vehicles. That is 4 x 6 = 24 is the number of missiles (loaded) at a time.

I calculated based on the picture of a "system" in post # 1 (last pic), I calculated based on 10 launchers to be a bit conservative , and there are 12 launchers in all.. I am sure if that is a company, a battery, a battalion or a system though..

 

[Joe Shearer]

Its cheap to have 2-3 level of Good Air Defense System with Cover from your existing Air force Fleet .. our neighbors are big , Financially strong and have big Budget so we can't always keep up with them when it comes to buying Modern Fighters .. and we have no intentions to Attack India or Israel ( JK ) .. so our main Objective is to maintain minimum deterrence , or in other words , we won't let Indians Gaining Air superiority over Pakistan's Skies ..
i really have this wish that Pakistan and Israel maintain some Back door diplomatic relationships .. so in future we can see some deals

Very well put.

It is far better, for Pakistan, to have in-depth anti-aircraft defences than to struggle to keep up with buying big, shiny toys that burn up a hundred years of maintenance for thousands of poor and starving families.

Your point about not having intentions to attack India is also very relevant, in a back-handed kind of way. If you invest in these safeguards, and not in F-16s, your defensive intentions become very clear, and there is bound to be an immediate lessening of the tension in Air Force circles in India. If the trend continues, expect to see a massive shift of resources towards the more powerful menace that India has.

I only wish the Pakistan Army would do something similar. In terms of policy and strategic interpretation of that policy, I mean.

We need bigger and better SAMs we need to buy TOT of HQ-9 and do indigenous development on Air Defence.

Don't even think about it. Save your money to develop the economy. That is a sounder defence.

I think this is a positive step and it showcases that pakistan is indeed focusing on air defence systems. Slowly the ranges will increase as well as accuracy. The fact of the matter is that our doctrine is based on defensive capabilities and a great aur defence truly boosts that capability.

I believe that this is not a fact as yet, but this and other such developments will move it gradually but irreversibly into that space. Which will be good all around.

 

[The SC]

PAF has purchased 5 companies (each with 3 systems or batteries). Each system has 4 launcher vehicles. That is 4 x 6 = 24 is the number of missiles (loaded) at a time.

There are 15 systems with 4 launchers each, and each launcher carries 6 to 8 missiles.. based on 6 missiles each that makes 360 missiles as total in the configuration you are talking about, but if a system is like the last pic in post #1, that makes a total of 900 missies for 15 systems of that kind multiplied by two, since ther are 15 systems to follow suite..Anyhow the minimum will be 720 missiles for 30 systems in your configuration..

 

[Joe Shearer]

we should thank india too for this lol you know what i mean

Well, why not?

Put it this way; if you spend your money on defence, nobody minds. It's when you start getting ballsy and buying offensive weaponry and systems that people start getting edgy.

You do understand, from your knowledge of current technology, that there are simple answers to this coverage, but that answer, to be used, would need a definite desire to cause major damage to Pakistan. A desire that does not yet exist.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Nice idea

 

[Gryphon]

There are 15 systems with 4 launchers each, and each launcher carries 6 to 8 missiles.. based on 6 missiles each that makes 360 missiles as total in the configuration you are talking about, but if a system is like the last pic in post #1, that makes a total of 900 missies for 15 systems of that kind multiplied by two, since ther are 15 systems to follow suite..Anyhow the minimum will be 720 missiles for 30 systems in your configuration..

The first batch of five companies was of the LY-80 (HQ-16A) MR-SAM.

Contract for the second batch of 5 more companies hasn't been signed yet. I don't think PAF will go for more HQ-16A's when the improved version HQ-16B has already been tested (successfully).

 

[The SC]

The first batch of five companies was of the LY-80 (HQ-16A) MR-SAM.

Contract for the second batch of 5 more companies hasn't been signed yet. I don't think PAF will go for more HQ-16A when the improved version HQ-16B is has already been tested (successfully).

Then it should be the latest version HQ-16B.. for the better..

 

[Falcon26]

This is encouraging but not the end. With 8 formidable AWACS, the modernization of the air defense systems will help push Pakistan towards a better position. But two critical elements are missing: military satellites and long range air defense missiles ideally in the 250km+ range. As long as this two elements are missing, the job is half done. Unfortunately, based on available information, Pakistan is years away from fielding either of this two crucial systems.

 

[Gryphon]

This is encouraging but not the end. With 8 formidable AWACS, the modernization of the air defense systems will help push Pakistan towards a better position. But two critical elements are missing: military satellites and long range air defense missiles ideally in the 250km+ range. As long as this two elements are missing, the job is half done. Unfortunately, based on available information, Pakistan is years away from fielding either of this two crucial systems.

HQ-9 LR-SAM is being negotiated with China. Pakistan will not get anything like Patriot or S-300/S-400.