National Aerospace Science and Technology Park Launched

[Sinnerman108]

Anything else?

You could maybe tell us where the Sukhois are ?

that will be a tough question ... but here is a easy one.

Name a single project that has yielded results as per design ?

In every civilized society, one has to list the benefits and quantify results before even requesting public money;
do you see that here ?
So will it be, that even a mule cart they make is a success ?

 

[TheSolution]

Kamra NASTP building under construction??
One of my friends applied for NASTP Rwp, they were totally ignoring NTS criteria (that they set) and the candidates were more or less already decided. That's what he said.

Yes this building here

(Also I'm hoping what you said isn't true but I wouldn't be surprised, it's Pakistan unfortunately where nepotism thrives and meritocracy is dead (explains our situation tbh))

 

[Ghessan]

Kamra NASTP building under construction??
One of my friends applied for NASTP Rwp, they were totally ignoring NTS criteria (that they set) and the candidates were more or less already decided. That's what he said.

you should have add last sentence being: "that is why we do not see any achievement at their hands, except making buildings, people sitting at their desks, salaries transferring to their accounts every month."

 

[Zarvan]

You could maybe tell us where the Sukhois are ?

that will be a tough question ... but here is a easy one.

Name a single project that has yielded results as per design ?

In every civilized society, one has to list the benefits and quantify results before even requesting public money;
do you see that here ?
So will it be, that even a mule cart they make is a success ?

JF 17, RAAD, Taimoor Missiles, many other weapons which are local integrated with JF 17. J-10 C also came. SD 10 now being produced in Pakistan also your own FAAZ missiles. SHAHPAR series of drones. Barq missile

 

[S A L M A N.]

Let's see how this collection of impressive buildings ends up. True to our traditions, can't expect much of any substance to be done here.

So far it seems that a bunch of graphics/logo designers and model makers have had a field day. They're probably burning through cash in creating these photogenic buildings and exhibits and in hiring engineers only for them to sit idle.

I'd be interested in hearing what @JamD and @Bilal Khan (Quwa) have to say.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Let's see how this collection of impressive buildings ends up. True to our traditions, can't expect much of any substance to be done here.

So far it seems that a bunch of graphics/logo designers and model makers have had a field day. They're probably burning through cash in creating these photogenic buildings and exhibits and in hiring engineers only for them to sit idle.

I'd be interested in hearing what @JamD and @Bilal Khan (Quwa) have to say.

tbh, our real hope lies in our private sector's ability to forge meaningful partnerships with TAI, Baykar and others. I do think they'll make some decent progress, but Pakistan's structural problems will limit things for everyone involved, be it private sector or state-owned. We don't invest in education, bottom-up R&D, accessible R&D facilities (for students, academics, etc to use without going through red-tape), and so on. Even the best-run private sector company in Pakistan can only work with what's available in Pakistan.

We do everything in reverse. The fancy buildings should come at the end of the process -- i.e., after we build a deep talent roster consisting of many veteran researchers to armies of junior engineers; after we build a vast network of connected R&D facilities, like labs, wind-tunnels, instrumentation ranges, etc; after we secure and implement big contracts for engineering and production services, etc.

@JamD

 

[TheSolution]

Someone on Twitter was mentioning Pakistan has a hypersonic wind tunnel under construction too, is this true?

 

[messiach]

Pakistan has officially launched National Aerospace and Technology Park. It would help Pakistan build technologies for fighter jets, drones, space and cyber. As I am writing this its launching ceremony is taking place in Rawalpindi. Baykar CEO is also among those who are attending this event.

I am in sargodha but i was in RWP last week. NASTP is a military bureaucracy echo system. Its created to assure post retirement jobs for ex army and airforce officers. It will end up on lines of suparco.

 

[messiach]

NASTP can surely do better. We hope so.

 

[Iron Shrappenel]

Yes this building here
View attachment 944419
View attachment 944420View attachment 944421

(Also I'm hoping what you said isn't true but I wouldn't be surprised, it's Pakistan unfortunately where nepotism thrives and meritocracy is dead (explains our situation tbh))

Ok nice, it's popular among the locals as a building for the SPD. My friend is a graduate from GIKI he applied for it but Allah knows if the person who took his place is more capable than him or not.
Almost all larger companies in Pakistan such as Habib Rafique Pvt Ltd and most of it's subsidiaries work on reference based system. Faujeets are preferred because of their contacts more than their capability.

 

[TheSolution]

Ok nice, it's popular among the locals as a building for the SPD. My friend is a graduate from GIKI he applied for it but Allah knows if the person who took his place is more capable than him or not.
Almost all larger companies in Pakistan such as Habib Rafique Pvt Ltd and most of it's subsidiaries work on reference based system. Faujeets are preferred because of their contacts more than their capability.

So the construction for the Kamra complex has been completed already? Google Earth dates those satellite images to May

And yes, Pakistan's industry will never be at the level of Turkey's or capable of real innovative R&D if they don't let go of their nepotism and toxic environment. Meritocracy is a must to be successful at something of this scale and complexity. This doesn't only take a lot of time and money, but you need the best talent available.

 

[JamD]

Let's see how this collection of impressive buildings ends up. True to our traditions, can't expect much of any substance to be done here.

So far it seems that a bunch of graphics/logo designers and model makers have had a field day. They're probably burning through cash in creating these photogenic buildings and exhibits and in hiring engineers only for them to sit idle.

I'd be interested in hearing what @JamD and @Bilal Khan (Quwa) have to say.

Long time no see.

My thoughts on the topic are spread out on various threads - I am too lazy to rehash them here. But to put it concisely, the best case its the usual incompetence of putting the cart before the horse; the worst case is that this is a huge scam to employ exPAF guys and waste everyone's money in the name of game changers.

 

[S A L M A N.]

Long time no see.

My thoughts on the topic are spread out on various threads - I am too lazy to rehash them here. But to put it concisely, the best case its the usual incompetence of putting the cart before the horse; the worst case is that this is a huge scam to employ exPAF guys and waste everyone's money in the name of game changers.

Grad school happened. Is happening, in fact.

But yes. This is very depressing to say the least. The lack of accountability is appalling.

Plunder is the name of the game, both at the institutional and individual level. From the way things are going, I would say that the worst case you described is the most probable. The PAF might have come up with a high-tech spinoff of the DHAs - grab prime real estate, get the taxpayer to foot the bill for constructing fancy buildings and use it all for sustaining a large bunch of retired guys.

In the Western world, such a huge program would be presented before Parliament, the detailed deliverables and the plans for achieving them would have been examined and even 4-star generals would have received a dressing down if they had been unable to provide correct answers.

Here, the deliverables and projects will never be made public in the name of national security and we will just get occasional glimpses of these fancy models, graphics and logos with no idea of the level of success (import substitution, KHTT, HR skill development, design & manufacturing capability development, industrial offsets) that they were able to accomplish.

Alas, the ills that result in the absence of civilian supremacy.

 

[Iron Shrappenel]

So the construction for the Kamra complex has been completed already? Google Earth dates those satellite images to May

And yes, Pakistan's industry will never be at the level of Turkey's or capable of real innovative R&D if they don't let go of their nepotism and toxic environment. Meritocracy is a must to be successful at something of this scale and complexity. This doesn't only take a lot of time and money, but you need the best talent available.

I haven't been there in a while now, maybe it's operational. Not sure.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Grad school happened. Is happening, in fact.

But yes. This is very depressing to say the least. The lack of accountability is appalling.

Plunder is the name of the game, both at the institutional and individual level. From the way things are going, I would say that the worst case you described is the most probable. The PAF might have come up with a high-tech spinoff of the DHAs - grab prime real estate, get the taxpayer to foot the bill for constructing fancy buildings and use it all for sustaining a large bunch of retired guys.

In the Western world, such a huge program would be presented before Parliament, the detailed deliverables and the plans for achieving them would have been examined and even 4-star generals would have received a dressing down if they had been unable to provide correct answers.

Here, the deliverables and projects will never be made public in the name of national security and we will just get occasional glimpses of these fancy models, graphics and logos with no idea of the level of success (import substitution, KHTT, HR skill development, design & manufacturing capability development, industrial offsets) that they were able to accomplish.

Alas, the ills that result in the absence of civilian supremacy.

The worst part is that this is low-tier plunder, not even effective plunder.

IMO, "effective plunder" is when you look at other countries and aim to take their resources. How? You set up super-competitive enterprises at home and, with some foreign policy muscle (via loans, investment, military intervention, etc), enter other markets. You'd mine their minerals and import them into Pakistan for a low cost, and then re-export manufactured goods for a higher price.

It's within that chunky profit margin that your elites 'plunder' and become billionaires.

But in Pakistan, we have the laziest and most incompetent version of plunder. These guys can't even become that rich with whatever they're doing; it's literally a waste of everyone's time, including the guy who's benefitting (relatively little) from it.