Naswar Corner

[Raja.Pakistani]

Anyway, let's hope we can all unite under this.

under this

or under Islam

this is the point of debate here

 

[Armstrong]

You have good point there but if Islam should be the basis of unity then all Muslims should be one irrespective of their countries/nationalities/ethnicities then attachment with one specific land don't make sense as per Islamic concept of brotherhood which don't see Muslim as black, white, arab, non Arab, Pakistani, Indian. Unity of Islam is based on Aqeedah not land then there will be no difference between Indian Muslim and Pakistani Muslim or between Pakistani Muslim or Afghani Muslim because they have same religion

Eventually of course ! These borders will blur & we'd be one big country again just as it was in the beginning but it ain't gonna happen in the foreseeable future for we haven't evolved to such a level of political, societal, academic or even religious maturity ! We've done it here in Pakistan, inshallah its increasing by the year as we speak as more & more ethnicities move into each other's ancestral lands & that very words is embed away to the point it will be made redundant. I firmly believe that when such a maturity sets in & it will for 'our evolution' cannot be stopped only delayed, we'd see it happening all over the world first as a more European like cohesion, a transition stage & then finally when these borders will be rendered irrelevant.

However because we're in the here & the now...we must heed expedience & know that we mustn't choke on this idealism ! Lets make Pakistan a shinning example of it for its already half way there & then the rest will follow.

 

[Redbull]

You have good points there but if Islam should be the basis of unity then all Muslims should be one irrespective of their countries/nationalities/ethnicities then attachment with one specific land don't make sense as per Islamic concept of brotherhood which don't see Muslim as black, white, arab, non Arab, Pakistani, Indian. Unity of Islam is based on Aqeedah not land then there will be no difference between Indian Muslim and Pakistani Muslim or between Pakistani Muslim or Afghani/Irani Muslim because they have same religion

Ok m bored.

Professor Hoodhboy made a very profound point: "You can have people of all different backgrounds and beliefs coming to the same conclusion in science, you can never have two religous people agreeing". Religion is the worst paradigm to unite any people; the scope of interpretation is so vast that two persons will comprehend two condracting viewpoints from the same verses.

 

[Armstrong]

i saw you guys were talking about ethnicities and I knew where this was going...That's why I've been avoiding discussion recently

Anyway, let's hope we can all unite under this.

Yes thats the first step ! Lets have that & show to the world what a humanistic polity did the Constitution of Medina held for us. I look forward to the day when we've transcended these differences & have also truly embraced the Non-Muslim Pakistanis in our midst as our own.

under this

or under Islam

this is the point of debate here

This is Islam !

 

[Armstrong]

Ok m bored.

Professor Hoodhboy made a very profound point: "You can have people of all different backgrounds and beliefs coming to the same conclusion in science, you can never have two religous people agreeing". Religion is the worst paradigm to unite any people; the scope of interpretation is so vast that two persons will comprehend two condracting viewpoints from the same verses.

And he is absolutely right because Science deals in facts (or as near to them as we can be) whereas Belief deals in abstracts ! But that is not to say that one cannot produce one's narrative before the people & ask them to decide. One would also do well do agree upon a reasonable limit as to where one draws the line.

As I've understood Professor Hoodhboy believes that because of our continued failures it is in fact our inherent inability to 'agree' or more so 'to agree to disagree' that we keep ricocheting between one failure & another. I believe it is the failure of our governance & the political immaturity of the masses that has propelled us from each failure to the other.

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

Right...I do take my apologies back ! Please continue.

Good, remove your thanks from my posts as well.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

This is Islam !

waiting for saudia arabian guys

or Afghani with having same claim

I badly wish Pakistan was islam but i dont see Islam in governance. I dont see islam in lives of people.

Protection of life, wealth, honour and providing justice is basic thing which islam/muslim state should provide to its people which is not there in Pakistan unfortunately

 

[Armstrong]

Good, remove your thanks from my posts as well.

I'm too lazy...why don't you try deleting your posts instead !

 

[Redbull]

And he is absolutely right because Science deals in facts (or as near to them as we can be) whereas Belief deals in abstracts ! But that is not to say that one cannot produce one's narrative before the people & ask them to decide. One would also do well do agree upon a reasonable limit as to where one draws the line.

As I've understood Professor Hoodhboy believes that because of our continued failures it is in fact our inherent inability to 'agree' or more so 'to agree to disagree' that we keep ricocheting between one failure & another. I believe it is the failure of our governance & the political immaturity of the masses that has propelled us from each failure to the other.

I'm confused, I thought the medina state and secularism were one and the same. Didn't everyone get treated equally despite their religion.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Ok m bored.

Professor Hoodhboy made a very profound point: "You can have people of all different backgrounds and beliefs coming to the same conclusion in science, you can never have two religous people agreeing". Religion is the worst paradigm to unite any people; the scope of interpretation is so vast that two persons will comprehend two condracting viewpoints from the same verses.

Its not just about religion. Differences are there in almost everything even in atheism

 

[Armstrong]

I'm confused, I thought the medina state and secularism were one and the same. Didn't everyone get treated equally despite their religion.

Thats religious pluralism for you !

Secularism implies for there to be a complete separation of religion & state which may & often does lead to religious pluralism of a kind because the State no longer cares but to think that a State where laws derived from the Koran & the decisions of the Prophet (PBUH) are enshrined is 'Secular' is warping the very meaning of that term in the most fundamental ways possible.

 

[p(-)0ENiX]

I'm too lazy...why don't you try deleting your posts instead !

I am not a senior member yet, I don't have the ability to do that.

 

[Redbull]

Its not just about religion. Differences are there in almost everything even in atheism

You mean secular, but the laws in those countries are based on testible evidence. For example, to stop someone from stealing, you send them to jail, crime decreases.

The problem religion has is:

-Do we follow what the text says or not? should we take it as an allegory or literal?-- at the end of the day, one can make out 3-4 meainings but the point is you are still restricted to possible variants one can deduce from the text.

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

And he is absolutely right because Science deals in facts (or as near to them as we can be) whereas Belief deals in abstracts ! But that is not to say that one cannot produce one's narrative before the people & ask them to decide. One would also do well do agree upon a reasonable limit as to where one draws the line.

I guess scientist has to believe in his senses that whatever he is feeling/perceiving/observing with his senses is true which can prove false by anyone else

 

[Armstrong]

I am not a senior member yet, I don't have the ability to do that.

Listen man, do go ahead & report my posts & I'd even be your alibi of sorts, just to get this melodrama over with !

You're offended ? I apologized...you're still offended ? Bite me !