NAL bailed out BrahMos ALCM when Russians asked for the Moon

[AMCA]

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YES ALL modern missiles/bombs dropped from an aircraft undergone drop tests simulation in a wind tunnel to simulate it's qerodynamics. Unless India is living in the 50s where they just assume everything works, and later found out the the missile/bomb had a different aerodynamic properties and fail to function as per design, then it's India's choice.

Genius, India did not have an Air launched cruise missile of this stature and now that India has one, we are doing a simulation at NAL in house, unless you have an inside information that India had a super secret ALCM prior to Brahmos that was taken to an overseas facility for testing, your statement remains void. I know its hard for you to accept that you have made a foolish statement of " All missiles undergo drop test" and its quite evident that now you are running for cover

'I am asking you the question and you are asking me back in return?. I asked you what is the criteria for doing a drop test simulation? What size and weight? Which Indian missile had been tested overseas? If this was the first to be simulated indigenously, does it mean all previous missiles/LGBs were not tested? Or maybe There is no other 'indigenous' aircraft missiles other than Brahmos?

Your question makes no sense at all without you answering me back on my question of what missile are you talking about? Which previous missile has India tested? Educate us all please

'

'I am telling you it does not depend on weight and size, it is done by people to know the aerodynamic properties of something dropped from an aircraft, regardless of size or weight, I told you, you are not dropping a 2 tonnes missile in a wind tunnel genius. Get it?

Your Modi fans here are saying it is, GET IT?

We never talked about weight and size genius, oh wait, so you are bringing in some interesting equations of some other member to bring your theory of Drop testing all missiles is it?

'I did not said LGB is a missile, I said LGB/missile/objects dropped from an aircraft that needs it aerodynamics verified or simulated undergo simulation in a windtunnel drop test. DO you get it genius? It could be a bomb, a missile or even a X-51 drop test. So are you saying before this India had never done a windtunnel drop test before?

Well one must agree that you have been trying your best to erase linking LGB's with missiles after your genius remarks of all missiles undergo drop tests. Well suppose I agree that you have not considered bombs as missiles, the characteristics of testing a missile is much different than that of a bomb. The Drop test facility at NAL was established in the year 2008, and pretty much all our Air to ground bombs or Air to Air missiles have been tested there. ALCM is different than that of the tests conducted on LGB's or ASTRA, in the article it very well states that the testing is new even for the Russians since India was the first country to integrate a supersonic cruise missile on to fighter jet, what do you have to say to that genius?

'That's wht I AM ASKING YOU! Why are you asking me in return? Which missile dropped from an Indian aircraft had or had not undergone a drop test inside a wind tunnel? If you had, it meant you sent it overseas, if you haven't it, meant you were doing guesstimate engineering. Get it bhai?

We are talking about Brahmos, never has any country integrated a supersonic cruise missile onto an aircraft before, therefore the complexity of the testing parameters had to be derived and that is quite an accomplishment for India as not even the Russians had a clue. Now wake me up when you answer what other missiles of this class had India done a testing on a foreign soil?

 

[malikahmed91279]

BANGALORE: India rightly celebrated ‘BrahMostav’ of a different kind when the frontline striker Sukhoi Su-30MKI fired a modified BrahMos supersonic cruise missile for the first time recently.

The feat of a Su-30 MKI, piloted by Wg Cdr Prashant Nair taking off from Kalaikunda Air Force Station on November 22, 2017, carrying the 2.5-tonne Brahmos missile and returning to the base after piercing the target in less than an hour, has already found a place in the history books.

But there’s a missing link to this piece of inspiring military history.

One name that missed out the pressers and headlines prominently was National Aerospace Laboratories (NAL), a leading laboratory under Council of Scientific & Industrial Research (CSIR), based out of Bangalore.

It was NAL who bailed out the BrahMos Aerospace during 2013-14 period, when the greedy Russians were asking for the moon to conduct a series of wind-tunnel tests ahead of the actual integration of the BrahMos Air Launch Cruise Missile (ALCM) on to Su-30MKI.

Military sources now confirm to Mathrubhumi that the Russians demanded ‘exorbitant charges’ to carry out these tests, a first-time experience even for them, since India was the first country to integrate a supersonic cruise missile on to fighter jet.

The Russians are said to have quoted over Rs 1300 crore with no commitment on transfer of technology. The Indian team, consisting of members from BrahMos, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited and the Indian Air Force (IAF), then turned to NAL for help.

NAL, with their extensive knowledge of carrying out wind-tunnel experiments for various national military and space missions, accepted the challenge and delivered the test results at 120th the cost of what the Russians had sought for.

For NAL, it was a first-time-experience to undertake drop test of stores from a Su-30MKI aircraft model. At their 1.5m low-speed wind tunnel, using Froude Scaling principles, the scientists carried out tests at low speeds of (M<0.3).

A Su-30 MKI model, the largest aircraft model, was designed, fabricated and commissioned at a record time at NAL’s National Trisonic Aerodynamic Facilities (NTAF). [A trisonic wind tunnel is capable of testing flight vehicles at subsonic, transonic and supersonic speed ranges].

The study provided the ideal conditions for the stores release at actual flight Mach numbers including the deflection setting angles for the fore and aft fins.

The software developed allowed tracking of the time-resolved displacement, velocity, acceleration and Euler angles. The composite image of the missile was recorded at four different instances along the trajectory.

NAL used appropriately scaled models of Su-30MKI and BrahMos missile for testing in low speed and high speed wind tunnels. Aerodynamic loads on the isolated missile loads were measured in the 2-ft wind tunnel and the same model was attached to the aircraft model.
Later, the aerodynamic loads on the complete configuration was determined in the 4-ft wind tunnel simulating flight Mach number range of 0.55 to 1.2 conditions at various angles of attack and sideslip to ascertain installation effects, store load in carriage position and in aircraft interference flow-field.

Those associated with the ALCM mission from the early days say that the store separation of the weapon is the critical milestone for any airborne weapon program.

Highly specialized and complex tests such as ‘Dynamically Similar Tests’ or ‘Drop tests’ were conducted for the first time in India at the Experimental Aerodynamics Division of NAL.

Store Separation Critical For Airborne Missions

In ‘Drop tests’ the missile model is dropped in the wind tunnel simulating aircraft speed, altitude and other parameters and separation trajectories are analysed. These tests were crucial for getting clearance for the BrahMos separation trials.

The wind tunnel tests were conducted in phases in 4-ft and 2 ft trisonic wind tunnels of NTAF. For the store separation tests, grid studies were carried out in 4-ft trisonic wind tunnel in NTAF to see the effect of BrahMos on the Su-30MKI aircraft model in carriage position.

The team also undertook air-intake studies to study whether the presence of the missile affects the performance of the air-intakes of the Su-30MKI. NAL was also involved in the crucial task of envelope expansion of the aircraft with the launcher, developed by BrahMos Aerospace Thiruvananthapuram Ltd.

When cross-checked, the complete test results even surprised the Russians who acknowledged that NAL findings were better and more accurate than what they had derived at.

NAL’s wind tunnel results matched very well with the results of the actual flight data. The capabilities developed are now being applied to other airborne weapon integration programmes.

The path-breaking tests fetched NAL the Best Laboratory Award in 2014 from BrahMos, presented by former President Dr A P J Abdul Kalam. Interestingly, India has named the hypersonic version of BrahMos after Dr Kalam.

http://english.mathrubhumi.com/news...cm-when-russians-asked-for-the-moon-1.2487959

Wtf, Russia didn't transfer the technology,
Then why India call it as homemade missile, I guess India role in this project same thing like Pak-FA, they are paying money, and getting stuff in the name of homemade indigenous missile

 

[AMCA]

Wtf, Russia didn't transfer the technology,
Then why India call it as homemade missile, I guess India role in this project same thing like Pak-FA, they are paying money, and getting stuff in the name of homemade indigenous missile

It was developed in India therefore did not require a TOT firstly and next, India never has tested an ALCM before in its laboratories and therefore it was wise enough to look towards the Russians whom we thought could could get some assistance, but it turned out that even the Russians have not conducted such a test before(also because of the price factor) India had to do it all alone. Fair enough?

 

[Han Patriot]

Genius, India did not have an Air launched cruise missile of this stature and now that India has one, we are doing a simulation at NAL in house, unless you have an inside information that India had a super secret ALCM prior to Brahmos that was taken to an overseas facility for testing, your statement remains void. I know its hard for you to accept that you have made a foolish statement of " All missiles undergo drop test" and its quite evident that now you are running for cover

Doesn't matter what stature, you seem to forget the arsenal which China has. Again I repeat my question, prior to this what missile/bomb/object was drop tested in a wind tunnel? A. You can answer none or yes. If none, it's either you have no indingeous armanent worthy of testing or you didn't test it at all. B. You sent it overseas to test. Simple as that. I know it's hard to admit you are depended on so many countries for so many things, not just hardware but even developmental help. Again I reiterate my stand ALL MODERN MISSILES/BOMBS/GLIDERS/EXPERIMENTAL OBJECT that is dropped from an aircraft require drop test simulation in a wind tunnel. Please prove me wrong otherwise? You are still not answering me which criteria is used to determine what i worthy of it until now?

Your question makes no sense at all without you answering me back on my question of what missile are you talking about? Which previous missile has India tested? Educate us all please

I am asking you this question and you are asking me back again. Damn it, typical Indian snake fork tongue. .
I am asking you which missile did India drop tested in wind tunnels, if there isn't why there isn't one, and if there is, where was it done. Simple as that.

'

We never talked about weight and size genius, oh wait, so you are bringing in some interesting equations of some other member to bring your theory of Drop testing all missiles is it?

Yah right, read the post by your RSS comrades. Yes, all 'MODERN' missiles launched from an aircraft are drop tested in a wind tunnel and then in real life, unless India is living in the 50s until recently?

Well one must agree that you have been trying your best to erase linking LGB's with missiles after your genius remarks of all missiles undergo drop tests. Well suppose I agree that you have not considered bombs as missiles, the characteristics of testing a missile is much different than that of a bomb. The Drop test facility at NAL was established in the year 2008, and pretty much all our Air to ground bombs or Air to Air missiles have been tested there. ALCM is different than that of the tests conducted on LGB's or ASTRA, in the article it very well states that the testing is new even for the Russians since India was the first country to integrate a supersonic cruise missile on to fighter jet, what do you have to say to that genius?

Explain to me with evidence how different it is to test a bomb, ALCM and a missile in a drop test? With supporting reference please?
You think the ALCM is going supersonic in the windtunnel, how many times do I have to repeat this, it is to determine the aerodynamic properties, not speed, size nor weight. The model is scaled for testing genius. The only difference is the simulated wind speed, mach xx ... Understand genius?

We are talking about Brahmos, never has any country integrated a supersonic cruise missile onto an aircraft before, therefore the complexity of the testing parameters had to be derived and that is quite an accomplishment for India as not even the Russians had a clue. Now wake me up when you answer what other missiles of this class had India done a testing on a foreign soil?

So what is so special about Brahmos, you seriously think it's bestest missile on earth? Not even the Russians want this overpriced Indian painted Russian missile. Educate yourself on the missiles of the Chinese and the Russians first OK?.

Yah the Russian developed the missiles and the Indian had the clue about it. You guys are seriously delusional, self praising and boastful geniuses.

If your article says it's the first time they test drop test in a wind tunnel indigenously, then explain to me where you did the previous drop tests?

 

[KapitaanAli]

Missiles and bombs regularly undergo wind tunnel tests in NAL, India. It's not for nothing that they keep half a dozen wind tunnels. As shown in this example for Astra:

This is from the study done on Astra A2A missile in NAL in 2010.
Note that there's no need of aircraft model. But the wing maybe needed.

Article: UNSTEADY PRESSURE MEASUREMENTS ON A 1:2.848 SCALE ASTRA MISSILE CONFIGURATION
Kurade RajanN Srinivasan

Abstract: Wind tunnel tests were carried out on 1:2.848 scale model of ASTRA missile configuration to measure unsteady pressures in the complex flow field in the wing region in the 1.2m tunnel at NAL in the Mach number range of 0.8 to 3. The angle of incidence was varied from 0° to 20°in the step mode in steps of 5°. The unsteady surface pressure fluctuations were measured at eight locations on the model using 1/16 inch dia., ±10psid range, cylindrical type Kulite pressure transducers. An accelerometer was mounted inside the model cavity to capture or identify the structural frequency (aerodynamically induced) of the model, if any. The transducers located ahead of the wing indicate relatively clean flow, do not pick up any significant levels of fluctuation, irrespective of angle of incidence, Mach number and configuration tested. The transducers located in the wing region show a distinct and dominant peak around frequency of 700 Hz. Amplitude of the dominant peak increases with increase in angle of incidence. This peak is also reflected in outputs from the transducers which are located downstream of the wing, at higher angle of incidences. Accelerometer output also confirms this dominant peak around frequency of 700 Hz. Spectra are generally broadband, with a dominant peak occurring around 700Hz. Parametric studies show that no dominant peak is observed for the configuration without the wings for the Mach number and angle of incidence tested. Hence it is strongly felt that the dominant frequency of 700 Hz was induced because of the wing flow. This document gives a brief description of the experiments and the instrumentation used to obtain unsteady pressure data. Typical results on unsteady pressure distribution are briefly discussed. Show less
Article · Jan 2010

What regularly doesn't happen is doing it on an aircraft model. That happens either when designing an aircraft (as done for LCA), or when the missile interrupts airflow significantly or when aircraft modifications are needed (both true in the case for Su30-BrahMos).
It was the first time that NAL used a Su30 model.