Mythological Weapons

[Capt.Popeye]

adding to the list..

LCA Tejas!!!

Wow, the fruit of diligent research is this; Mr. Researcher!
Whatta flop.

 

[Alternative]

I liked your comments about the Sikh use of the Quoit and the Dandastram, although the wisecrack about 'history' not being our strength came too close to the bone for comfort!

What did you mean, btw, by your remarks above? I am not sure and would like you to clarify before I comment. Are you saying that around 100 BC to 100 AD, nobody knew how to forge steel? to gauge temperature? to carbonise steel? Even taking the other end of the time envelope into account, is it your case that this was - these were - unknown around 1000 BC?

It's been dull on the forum; I look forward to your response with anticipation and hope.

If you like any thing, click the thanks button. Comment on 'History' was bit dramatized to get attention of the readers. but it is true to the bone.
My comments regarding steel were in response to the original post titled Asi by thread starter 'Divya' in which myth regarding creation of Asi(sword) was told.
My comment is my interpretation of that myth. Hoping to clear my point.
My question regarding Sudarshana Chakra remain unanswered till now.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Many weapons mentioned were actual weapons used in ancient times, later given mythological status. for example, Sudarshana Chakra........ can any one of you tell me the technique to throw this chakra?????



Just remember there is another form of chakra still practised by Sikhs of Punjab.

No, I must humbly confess that none of us know how to use the Sudarshan Chakra, nor do any of us, Sikhs included, know how the chakram was used. You seem to have the upper hand over the whole pack of us on this one.

But you will find as you go along that this will sadly be the case in the majority. Most of us have nothing to do but put together a lot of fine words in impressive sentences; the amount of knowledge we have is quite dismal. Brace yourself for a long and harrowing spell of being the only person to know about things.

Pair of war quoits - Throwing Blades and Sticks - Object 1906.64.1 Pitt Rivers Museum

If 2000 or 3000 years ago, any body to writ down about how to forge steel blade? how to gauge temperature? how to carbonize steel? then above description will hold true.
Color of heated metal or alloys were observed to estimate temperature........ hot blade dipped in blood(fluid having high carbon content??) to give extra strength to steel.

Regarding your questions about steel, it might help the rest of us to read a little. In college, 40 years ago, I read about Wootz Steel, and that led to further grubbing around, especially as my first job happened to be with a subsidiary of Tata Iron and Steel, way back in 74. But again, instead of weaving together fancy stuff, let us make things easier.

Ancient steel

Steel was known in antiquity, and may have been produced by managing bloomeries, iron-smelting facilities, where the bloom contained carbon.[17]

The earliest known production of steel is a piece of ironware excavated from an archaeological site in Anatolia (Kaman-Kalehoyuk) and is about 4,000 years old.[18] Other ancient steel comes from East Africa, dating back to 1400 BC.[19] In the 4th century BC steel weapons like the Falcata were produced in the Iberian Peninsula, while Noric steel was used by the Roman military.[20] The Chinese of the Warring States (403–221 BC) had quench-hardened steel,[21] while Chinese of the Han Dynasty (202 BC – 220 AD) created steel by melting together wrought iron with cast iron, gaining an ultimate product of a carbon-intermediate steel by the 1st century AD.[22][23] The Haya people of East Africa discovered a type of high-heat blast furnace which allowed them to forge carbon steel at 1,802 °C (3,276 °F) nearly 2,000 years ago.[24] This ability was not duplicated until centuries later in Europe during the Industrial Revolution.

Wootz steel and Damascus steel

Evidence of the earliest production of high carbon steel in the Indian Subcontinent was found in Samanalawewa area in Sri Lanka.[25] Wootz steel was produced in India by about 300 BC.[26] Along with their original methods of forging steel, the Chinese had also adopted the production methods of creating Wootz steel, an idea imported into China from India by the 5th century AD.[27] In Sri Lanka, this early steel-making method employed the unique use of a wind furnace, blown by the monsoon winds, that was capable of producing high-carbon steel.[28]

Also known as Damascus steel, wootz is famous for its durability and ability to hold an edge. It was originally created from a number of different materials including various trace elements. It was essentially a complicated alloy with iron as its main component. Recent studies have suggested that carbon nanotubes were included in its structure, which might explain some of its legendary qualities, though given the technology available at that time, they were produced by chance rather than by design.[29]

Natural wind was used where the soil containing iron was heated up with the use of wood. The ancient Sinhalese managed to extract a ton of steel for every 2 tons of soil[citation needed], a remarkable feat at the time. One such furnace was found in Samanalawewa and archaeologists were able to produce steel as the ancients did long ago.[28][30]

Crucible steel, formed by slowly heating and cooling pure iron and carbon (typically in the form of charcoal) in a crucible, was produced in Merv by the 9th to 10th century AD.[26] In the 11th century, there is evidence of the production of steel in Song China using two techniques: a "berganesque" method that produced inferior, inhomogeneous steel and a precursor to the modern Bessemer process that utilized partial decarbonization via repeated forging under a cold blast.[31]

Then why are you running around in an enemy's forum, defending your country, your honor? or what?
You translate?....... More that 90% of your(?) scriptures was translated by non-hindus?
Can you please answer my post dated 20-01-2011 regarding Sudarshana Chakra?
Do you really have knowledge and understand all what is written?

You believe what ever you want to and we believe what eve we want to.

True, very true.

Are you are looking for economies of scale? You know, mass graves and things.

If so, and always bearing in mind your words from the following passage, regarding "History", might I hazard the opinion that while it is difficult dating myths and multi-authored epics like the Ramayana, it was probably 'composed' over a longer period of time than the Mahabharata, probably starting with a root-story of characters from the 8th or 7th century BC, and finally reaching its definitive form around four hundred years later, sometime during 500 BC and 400 BC? I am saying this for several reasons:

1. The main verses dealing with the youth of Rama and his growing up show that the 'composer(s)' were familiar with Aryavarta as it developed in the first millennium BC, transitioning from the Heroic Age of the tribes that we see in the Mahabharata to the age of the Mahajanapadas, to the growing power and influence of the eastern stretches of the Gangetic Plain, and kingdoms such as Mithila and Ayodhya.
   [*]Later chapters and verses are abruptly different, and are quite unconnected to Indian geography (leave alone the retrospective identification of places in the epic with some geographical feature today. In fact, I would personally argue, given that the mission is to make a complete fool of myself, for a provenance that is truly ancient, even older than the very firmly founded Mahabharata, and reflects a story that the Indo-Aryans brought to India with them in some prototypical form.
   [*]This is due to the epic's use of the words Vanara and Asura. While Asura is known to us linguistically, having featured in the cleavage between Indo-Aryan trekking east into Balkh, Afghanistan and the Pamirs, and then the Hindu Kush, and Iranians following the Avesta, trekking west in the wake of the east Iranian speaking Medes and Persians, into the Iranian Plateau, the word Vanara is pure magic. The Rg Veda already calls monkeys 'kapi'; it is tempting to see in the word Vanara a throwback to the Proto-Indo-European Vanir, the Vanir who, with the Aesir, vied with Odin and his warband for mastery of the world.
2. Much becomes clear if we think of the Vanara as primaeval Titanic figures, much like the Titans themselves, not the monkeys of the ancient south Asian jungle but a mythical set of beings, demi-gods, descended with equal mystery as the gods themselves, and dominated by the gods through accident of circumstance. The Asura we already think of in similar terms, and with little or no discredit: in real life, I bear an Asura name from this epic, and it causes no surprise or difficulty in daily life.

Not only good at mathematics and astronomy but in metallurgy, medicine, arts and crafts, sexology, linguistics, literature, jurisprudence, Philosophy, etc. etc. etc.................................... Except...........
HISTORY

Very true; oh, very, very true.

...'tis not so deep as a well, nor so wide as a church-door; but 'tis enough, 'twill serve.

If you like any thing, click the thanks button.

Ah, so!

I knew that dratted thing stood for something important.

Thanks for the tip. It makes things so clear now.

Comment on 'History' was bit dramatized to get attention of the readers. but it is true to the bone.
My comments regarding steel were in response to the original post titled Asi by thread starter 'Divya' in which myth regarding creation of Asi(sword) was told.
My comment is my interpretation of that myth. Hoping to clear my point.
My question regarding Sudarshana Chakra remain unanswered till now.

We shall keep to your words, and hew to the bone.

However, I was not curious merely about why you wrote about steel, but also about what you wrote about it; this may not have come through in my tangled way of writing, and you may not have understood that I was asking you that question. Just a quick foretaste of the kinds of trials you will undergo.

Your interpretation of the myth is marvellous; I am left speechless.

Finally, I am hopeful that we will find an answer to your question about the Sudarshan Chakra by working unitedly together, at least as long as from Treta to Dwapar.

 

[Awesome]

Bhramadanda The Deadliest of all weapons ​

Bhramadanda which shares its name with the stick used by the sages was the stick used by bhrama. As a defensive weapon it had the power to stop all other weapons but when used on offensive purpose it would destroy the entire universe. There are no evidences of its usage in any of the scriptures though Drona in Mahabharata had knowledge to use it but he never used it.

The most powerful stick type weapon in Abrahamic texts is the staff of Moses.

Amongst various miracles, he split the red sea. There's an alternate belief that as prince of Egypt, Moses had access to special mythical weapons in the Egyptian armory.

The Pharoah initially allowed the 12 tribes to leave, but then suddenly decided to chase after them with his army. It is believed at this time, the Pharoah learned that the Prophet had left with some super powerful weapon mounted to his staff.

Anyway, its myth and neo-myth now, with it being created by imagination of mankind. Although I personally feel that you can perhaps get 1% of reality from the mythical stories as most of them were probably depicted magical as the people of the times didn't understand technology that may be relatively very advance.

Pretty sure there would be a holy grail like myth in Hinduism too.

 

[divya]

The most powerful stick type weapon in Abrahamic texts is the staff of Moses.

Amongst various miracles, he split the red sea. There's an alternate belief that as prince of Egypt, Moses had access to special mythical weapons in the Egyptian armory.

The Pharoah initially allowed the 12 tribes to leave, but then suddenly decided to chase after them with his army. It is believed at this time, the Pharoah learned that the Prophet had left with some super powerful weapon mounted to his staff.

Anyway, its myth and neo-myth now, with it being created by imagination of mankind. Although I personally feel that you can perhaps get 1% of reality from the mythical stories as most of them were probably depicted magical as the people of the times didn't understand technology that may be relatively very advance.

Pretty sure there would be a holy grail like myth in Hinduism too.

there is a myth that there was a secreat society which was formed by asoka to preseve the knowledge which could be dangerous to men in coming times. it is said that the group still remains hidden preserving this knowledge

 

[KS]

there is a myth that there was a secreat society which was formed by asoka to preseve the knowledge which could be dangerous to men in coming times. it is said that the group still remains hidden preserving this knowledge

And the myth goes on like the texts with those knowledge were preserved at the ancient university at Nalanda and it was secretly carted away to monastries in Tibet when Baktiyar Khilji ravaged it.

It is thought that those texts are preserved till now there.

 

[Alternative]

there is a myth that there was a secreat society which was formed by asoka to preseve the knowledge which could be dangerous to men in coming times. it is said that the group still remains hidden preserving this knowledge

Answering myth with a "myth".
--Bishma whlie lying on bed of arrows asks for water and refuse to drink by ordinary means so "Arjuna mounts his chariot and after some driving" shoot an arrow in the ground, a fountain erupts and thirst of Bishma is quenched. Bishma then advices the Kuru King, Durjodana, to make peace with Pandavas as no one alive could do that---
As all died by the end of Mahabarata, and no disciple of Arjuna mentioned, so no one left with knowledge.
Furthermore, I dont remember reading about any "text of warfare" in Mahabharata. Everyone wanted celestial weapons and nowhere is mentioned Manual.

 

[Alternative]

And the myth goes on like the texts with those knowledge were preserved at the ancient university at Nalanda and it was secretly carted away to monastries in Tibet when Baktiyar Khilji ravaged it.

It is thought that those texts are preserved till now there.

Dear sir, You must understand what you are talking. A man with the weapons and skill of Bishma would be unstoppable. if you consult Mahabharata, half of Pandava army was annihilated by Bishma alone in 10 days(may be, as I don't remember clearly but I do remember all was over in 18 days) and Arjuna had to resolve to UNFAIR means.
Such Knowledge(IF) extant(IF) carted away on donkeys for what purpose. If safe keeping? then burn it to ashes, it will be safe for posterity.

 

[KS]

Dear sir, You must understand what you are talking. A man with the weapons and skill of Bishma would be unstoppable. if you consult Mahabharata, half of Pandava army was annihilated by Bishma alone in 10 days(may be, as I don't remember clearly but I do remember all was over in 18 days) and Arjuna had to resolve to UNFAIR means.

Yes Bhishma was unstoppable but only if he had the will to fight.

Bhisma, the wise man he was, knew who was right and who was wrong and fought for the Kouravas only for the sake of loyalty and it is implied that he did not give his full especially in his battle with Arjuna and the Pandavas.

Such Knowledge(IF) extant(IF) carted away on donkeys for what purpose. If safe keeping? then burn it to ashes, it will be safe for posterity.

No, the knowledge included much much more than that - it is said to include the knowledge about alchemy,anti-gravity, the science of making vimanas, the knowledge of nuclear science and many scientific secrets which in the wrong hands could have wreaked havoc on the world. But in the correct hands would have been a boon to mankind - the reason they were not burnt exactly, but taken by the buddhist monks to Tibet.

 

[divya]

Answering myth with a "myth".
--Bishma whlie lying on bed of arrows asks for water and refuse to drink by ordinary means so "Arjuna mounts his chariot and after some driving" shoot an arrow in the ground, a fountain erupts and thirst of Bishma is quenched. Bishma then advices the Kuru King, Durjodana, to make peace with Pandavas as no one alive could do that---
As all died by the end of Mahabarata, and no disciple of Arjuna mentioned, so no one left with knowledge.
Furthermore, I dont remember reading about any "text of warfare" in Mahabharata. Everyone wanted celestial weapons and nowhere is mentioned Manual.

not everyone died in mahabharta including kauravas. at the end there were 3 kauravas left along with the clan of arjun by parikshit. parikshit was the one who almost killed the kali yuga personified before allowing him in gold. it is said that it was kali yuga because of which this knowledge was to destroyed because people will stop being pious and will start questioning god for his existence. evil will be at its best. there wont be any yajnas, whole world will get confused about god and towards the end there will be only oe relation left of man and woman....

 

[Alternative]

Wow, So long a post, my patience duly rewarded.
I will try one thing at a time.

No, I must humbly confess that none of us know how to use the Sudarshan Chakra, nor do any of us, Sikhs included, know how the chakram was used. You seem to have the upper hand over the whole pack of us on this one.

Sikhs know how to use Chakram, War Quoits (Not to be confused with Sudarshana Chakra or Quoit of Zena). I remember seeing a video on youtube in which a young Akali warrior shows some sword forms and then threw some chakram, first small about 4 inches diameter, by whirling very quickly chakram around index finger, hand at the level little above head, and with a snap hurl it towards target.
A correct technique indeed.
He, Akali, then threw larger chakram (about the size shown in your posted link) like a Frisbee, hand wrapped around outer edge, pulled back under other armpit, released imparting a spin with the power of arm.
A Wrong technique, i am afraid.

 

[divya]

Wow, So long a post, my patience duly rewarded.
I will try one thing at a time.

Sikhs know how to use Chakram, War Quoits (Not to be confused with Sudarshana Chakra or Quoit of Zena). I remember seeing a video on youtube in which a young Akali warrior shows some sword forms and then threw some chakram, first small about 4 inches diameter, by whirling very quickly chakram around index finger, hand at the level little above head, and with a snap hurl it towards target.
A correct technique indeed.
He, Akali, then threw larger chakram (about the size shown in your posted link) like a Frisbee, hand wrapped around outer edge, pulled back under other armpit, released imparting a spin with the power of arm.
A Wrong technique, i am afraid.

actually what u r talking about is chakra. though in sanskrit it is called chakram. sudarshan chakra was different in terms as it was formed from the sun dust along with pushpak vimana and shivas trident. it has 2 spikes rotating in opposite direction. and i guess it had some 10 million spikes if i remember correctly.

 

[Alternative]

not everyone died in mahabharta including kauravas. at the end there were 3 kauravas left along with the clan of arjun by parikshit. parikshit was the one who almost killed the kali yuga personified before allowing him in gold. it is said that it was kali yuga because of which this knowledge was to destroyed because people will stop being pious and will start questioning god for his existence. evil will be at its best. there wont be any yajnas, whole world will get confused about god and towards the end there will be only oe relation left of man and woman....

Sorry I could not elaborate my point earlier. As I recall from memory if it serves well,.... Bishma while lying on bed or arrows tell Durjodana that Arjuna only left with knowledge, ......

 

[illuminatidinesh]

Sorry I could not elaborate my point earlier. As I recall from memory if it serves well,.... Bishma while lying on bed or arrows tell Durjodana that Arjuna only left with knowledge, .....

That was made as a last resort to end the war, though he himself knew it wouldn work with Duryodana....

 

[divya]

Sorry I could not elaborate my point earlier. As I recall from memory if it serves well,.... Bishma while lying on bed or arrows tell Durjodana that Arjuna only left with knowledge, ......

not really ashwathama also had knowledge of bhramastra who is another immortals of hinudism who was cursed to live till eternity in pain by krishna.

thouugh ashwathma could invoke brahmastra only once but he had knowledge to invoke it.

there is a temple of shiva i forgot the placename where evry morning there is a flower at the shiva idol and is said that ashwathama does that and had been going on since ages. no one actually ever found out where that flower comes there everyday.