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Myth shatterd "india won 65 war?"

the problem is not with these people.....the problem is with their education system.....lies are taught to them in their text-book about victory....so they are believing it......
even in 1971 they were trying to do it.....paar unconditional surrunder ne inkii poll khol dii...check out these lines from wikipedia from 1971 war....
''''The Pakistani people were not mentally prepared to accept defeat, the state controlled media in West Pakistan had been projecting imaginary victories. When the surrender in East Pakistan was finally announced, people could not come terms with the magnitude of defeat, spontaneous demonstrations and mass protests erupted on the streets of major cities in West Pakistan.''''
 
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the problem is not with these people.....the problem is with their education system.....lies are taught to them in their text-book about victory....so they are believing it......
even in 1971 they were trying to do it.....paar unconditional surrunder ne inkii poll khol dii...check out these lines from wikipedia from 1971 war....
''''The Pakistani people were not mentally prepared to accept defeat, the state controlled media in West Pakistan had been projecting imaginary victories. When the surrender in East Pakistan was finally announced, people could not come terms with the magnitude of defeat, spontaneous demonstrations and mass protests erupted on the streets of major cities in West Pakistan.''''
Seems you got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning,
members of your mentality belong in the sad world of BR.
Are you blind or just plain stupid to understand the title of the thread.
Let me make it simple for you, it concerns 1965 not your idiotic tendency of 1971. you got that.
 
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Seems you got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning,
members of your mentality belong in the sad world of BR.
Are you blind or just plain stupid to understand the title of the thread.
Let me make it simple for you, it concerns 1965 not your idiotic tendency of 1971. you got that.

first thing i never slept tonight.......
soncond thing ,,check out my reply.....it say even in 1971 ...hindi/urdu main iska matlab '1971 main bhi'
i want to say then--
in 1965 your state controlled media projecting imaginary victories. they tried to repeat the same projecting imaginary victory in 1971....but unconditional surrunder ne poll khol dii
 
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:smitten:
in 1965 your state controlled media projecting imaginary victories. they tried to repeat the same projecting imaginary victory in 1971....but unconditional surrunder ne poll khol dii


I, for one, will be very happy to find out that Pakistan controlled Times of London and the US State Dept to make them tell the world that India lost the 1963 war. :smitten:
 
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first thing i never slept tonight.......
soncond thing ,,check out my reply.....it say even in 1971 ...hindi/urdu main iska matlab '1971 main bhi'
i want to say then--
in 1965 your state controlled media projecting imaginary victories. they tried to repeat the same projecting imaginary victory in 1971....but unconditional surrunder ne poll khol dii

Let me remind you that Pakistan is somewhat one fifth the size of India, hence it's not easy to hide any major incident besides we don't have your frivlious media to smoke screen all our misgivings.
Brian Cloughly, who at one time or another was a British military attache in Islamabad and New Delhi respectively wrote after the Kargil Conflict, "Indians wanted to be assured of a victory, and their media provided them this hallow win, where as in fact Pakistan never lost the battle". Waqat kabi poll aur kabi pagri khol deta hey.:cheers:
 
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Let me remind you that Pakistan is somewhat one fifth the size of India, hence it's not easy to hide any major incident besides we don't have your frivlious media to smoke screen all our misgivings.
Brian Cloughly, who at one time or another was a British military attache in Islamabad and New Delhi respectively wrote after the Kargil Conflict, "Indians wanted to be assured of a victory, and their media provided them this hallow win, where as in fact Pakistan never lost the battle". Waqat kabi poll aur kabi pagri khol deta hey.:cheers:

Let him say what he wants to say, who went running to US and why during kargil war? Who had to abandon their posts? who refused to take back the dead bodies of there regular army persons?
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As you said this thread is not about kargil so leave it for other time.
 
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Let him say what he wants to say, who went running to US and why during kargil war? Who had to abandon their posts? who refused to take back the dead bodies of there regular army persons?
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As you said this thread is not about kargil so leave it for other time.

More of the media mania and it's die hard victims.
Back to the topic indeed.
 
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Let me remind you that Pakistan is somewhat one fifth the size of India, hence it's not easy to hide any major incident besides we don't have your frivlious media to smoke screen all our misgivings.
Brian Cloughly, who at one time or another was a British military attache in Islamabad and New Delhi respectively wrote after the Kargil Conflict, "Indians wanted to be assured of a victory, and their media provided them this hallow win, where as in fact Pakistan never lost the battle". Waqat kabi poll aur kabi pagri khol deta hey.:cheers:

Thats nice you quote one guys opinion to make us believe you won kargil war..BTW which country is Kargil now?? :woot: ..what about the unwanted bodies of the soldiers?ohh right its off topic na??lets see in some other thread about it ..:wave:
 
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Thats nice you quote one guys opinion to make us believe you won kargil war..BTW which country is Kargil now?? :woot: ..what about the unwanted bodies of the soldiers?ohh right its off topic na??lets see in some other thread about it ..:wave:

Get a life as your country fellow has already pointed out your sad rants.
You are just dancing around playing arm pit music.
You people are much to do about nothing.
 
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Get a life as your country fellow has already pointed out your sad rants.
You are just dancing around playing arm pit music.
You people are much to do about nothing.

We people have nothing to do and you have the burden of whole Pakistan on your shoulders or so it seems.

Btw you seem to like the arm pit music too much. Why dont you make some of your own and listen to it everytime you are browsing this forum. It will remind you of your wonderful contribution to this forum.

AFA the sad rants go then take the media sources of most of the developed world and they will have the same opinion about 65,71 and Kargil.

I know its not going to do any good to your mind because you are more or less indoctrinated to not to listen to others. Well how can you.. for that you will first have to stop listening to arm pit music . which you never would because you're so fond of it.
 
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We people have nothing to do and you have the burden of whole Pakistan on your shoulders or so it seems.

Btw you seem to like the arm pit music too much. Why dont you make some of your own and listen to it everytime you are browsing this forum. It will remind you of your wonderful contribution to this forum.

AFA the sad rants go then take the media sources of most of the developed world and they will have the same opinion about 65,71 and Kargil.

I know its not going to do any good to your mind because you are more or less indoctrinated to not to listen to others. Well how can you.. for that you will first have to stop listening to arm pit music . which you never would because you're so fond of it.

How can country of believers loose to a country of kafir Hindus, 1971 was different as Muslim bangladesh was with Indians. :hitwall:
 
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Get a life as your country fellow has already pointed out your sad rants.
You are just dancing around playing arm pit music.
You people are much to do about nothing.

Lolz personal attack huh?post reported ..not a good way windjammer :no:
 
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From Dawn Nur Khan reminisces ’65 war -DAWN - National; September 6, 2005


Nur Khan reminisces ’65 war


By Our Special Correspondent

ISLAMABAD, Sept 5: Air Marshal (retired) Nur Khan, the man who led the airforce achieve complete superiority over the three times bigger Indian airforce on the very first day of the 1965 war, had all but resigned the post the very day that he took command of Pakistan Air Force on July 23, 1965.

“Rumours about an impending operation were rife but the army had not shared the plans with other forces,” Air Marshal Nur Khan said. Sharing his memoirs with Dawn on the 40th anniversary of 1965 war, Air Marshal Khan said that he was the most disturbed man on the day, instead of feeling proud.

Air Marshal (retired) Asghar Khan while handing over the command to Nur Khan had not briefed him about any impending war because he was not aware of it himself. So, in order to double check, Nur Khan called on the then Commander-in-Chief, General Musa Khan.

Under his searching questions Gen Musa wilted and with a sheepish smile admitted that something was afoot. Nur Khan’s immediate reaction was that this would mean war. But, Gen Musa said you need not to worry as according to him Indians would not retaliate. Then he directed a still highly skeptical Nur Khan to Lt-Gen Akhtar Hasan Malik, GOC Kashmir, the man in-charge of “Operation Gibraltar” for further details. The long and short of his discussion with Gen Malik was, “don’t worry, because the plan to send in some 800,000 infiltrators inside the occupied territory to throw out the Indian troops with the help of the local population”, was so designed that the Indians would not be able retaliate and therefore the airforce need not get into war-time mode.

A still incredulous Nur Khan was shocked when on further inquiry he found that except for a small coterie of top generals, very few in the armed forces knew about “Operation Gibraltar”. He asked himself how good, intelligent and professional people like Musa and Malik could be so naive, so irresponsible.

For the air marshal, it was unbelievable. Even the then Lahore garrison commander had not been taken into confidence. And Governor of West Pakistan, Malik Amir Mohammad Khan of Kalabagh did not know what was afoot and had gone to Murree for vacations.

It was at this point that he felt like resigning and going home. But then he thought such a rash move would further undermine the country’s interests and, therefore, kept his cool and went about counting his chickens — the entire airforce was too young and too inexperienced to be called anything else then — and gearing up his service for the D-day.

The miracle that the PAF achieved on September 6, to a large extent, is attributed to Nur Khan’s leadership. He led his force from up front and set personal example by going on some highly risky sorties himself. But then no commander, no matter how daring and how professional, can win a battle if his troops are not fully geared to face such challenges and that too within 43 days of change in command.

The full credit for turning the PAF into a highly professional and dedicated fighting machine goes to Air Marshal Asghar Khan who was given charge of the service in 1957. Thank God, unlike the other service no darbari or sifarishi was given the job. And by the time he left on July 23, 1965, Asghar Khan had turned the PAF into a well-oiled, highly professional and dedicated fighting machine and had trained them on the then best US made fighters, bombers and transport planes. Those who flew those machines and those who maintained them on ground worked like a team, and each one of the PAF member performed beyond the call of duty to make a miracle.

The PAF performance had crucially allowed the Army to operate without interference from the Indian airforce.

“The performance of the Army did not match that of the PAF mainly because the leadership was not as professional. They had planned the ‘Operation Gibraltar’ for self-glory rather than in the national interest. It was a wrong war. And they misled the nation with a big lie that India rather than Pakistan had provoked the war and that we were the victims of Indian aggression”, Air Marshal Khan said.

When on the second day of war President Gen Ayub wanted to know how we were faring, Musa informed him that the Army had run out of even ammunition. That was the extent of preparation in the Army. And the information had shocked Gen Ayub so much that it could have triggered his heart ailment, which overtook him a couple of years later.

This in short is Nur Khan’s version of 1965 war, which he calls an unnecessary war and says that President Ayub for whom he has the greatest regard should have held his senior generals accountable for the debacle and himself resigned.

This would have held the hands of the adventurers who followed Gen Ayub. Since the 1965 war was based on a big lie and was presented to the nation a great victory, the Army came to believe its own fiction and has used since, Ayub as its role model and therefore has continued to fight unwanted wars — the 1971 war and the Kargil fiasco in 1999, he said.

In each of the subsequent wars we have committed the same mistakes that we committed in 1965.


Air Marshal Khan demanded that a truth commission formed to find out why we failed in all our military adventures. It is not punishment of the failed leadership that should be the aim of the commission but sifting of facts from fiction and laying bare the follies and foibles of the irresponsible leaders in matters with grave implications for the nation. It should also point out the irregularities committed in training and promotions in the defence forces in the past so that it is not repeated in future.

Mr Khan believes that our soldiers when called upon have fought with their lives but because of bad leadership their supreme sacrifices went waste. And after every war that we began we ended up taking dictation from the enemy — at Tashkant, at Simla and lastly at Washington.

He said at present Pakistan is engaged in another war, this time in Waziristan. This war can also end up in a fiasco and politically disastrous for the federation if it is fought with the same nonchalance and unprofessionally as we did the last three wars.

He, therefore, called for an immediate change of command at the GHQ insisting that President Gen Pervez Musharraf should appoint a full-time Chief of Army Staff and restore full democracy in the country. He suggested appointment of an independent chief election commissioner in consultation with all the political parties.

“Look at India. There a religious party comes in power and nobody cries foul and it goes out of power and nobody alleges rigging. We can also do this,” he added.

And we must make unified efforts to restore the country in the vision of the Quaid-i-Azam. Turn it into a non-theocratic and truly democratic state. And all the three forces should model themselves on the lines set by Asghar Khan when he was commanding the PAF, he suggested.
 
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VIEW: Lessons of the 1965 war

Reminiscing about the 1965 war with India in which the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) emerged victorious, Pakistan’s ex-air chief, Air Marshal (Retd) Nur Khan, makes the shocking revelation that he almost resigned from the job the day he took over from Air Marshal Asghar Khan. “Rumours about an impending operation were rife but the army had not shared the plans with the other forces,” he said. Air Marshal Asghar Khan, he says, also did not brief him of what lay ahead while handing over charge.

To double-check, Nur Khan spoke to the then Commander-in-Chief, General Musa Khan, who reluctantly parted with the information that Pakistan was about to launch an operation inside Held Kashmir. Nur Khan then spoke to Lt-Gen Akhtar Malik, GOC Kashmir, and was told that Pakistan was launching “Operation Gibraltar” with 800,000 infiltrators “to throw out the Indian troops with the help of the local population”. Since the air force would not be needed, Nur Khan was told, it was not informed. Nur Khan says he went on to discover that even the Lahore garrison commander did not know; and that the powerful governor of West Pakistan, Malik Amir Mohammad Khan of Kalabagh, did not know either, having departed for Murree for vacations.

One can’t blame Nur Khan for wanting to resign. In the event, nothing went as Generals Ayub and Musa had calculated. The Indians opened up on Lahore and everybody had to scramble into action at the last moment, letting the Indians come pretty close to the city. No one will doubt that our air force bailed us out in 1965. It gave us almost complete mastery in the air over an enemy many times larger.

Within 43 days of the change in command, the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) fought like a lion under Nur Khan. He had good officers under him, none tainted by the greed of power and property as happened in later years. Isolated from the take-over blight that had befallen the army, the PAF had reared itself as a professional institution under two consecutively competent leaders. Nur Khan goes on to say, “The performance of the Army did not match that of the PAF mainly because the army leadership was not as professional. They had planned ‘Operation Gibraltar’ for self-glory rather than in the national interest. It was a wrong war. And they misled the nation with a big lie that India rather than Pakistan had provoked the war and that we were the victims of Indian aggression.”

There was lack of imagination behind the strategy that led to the 1965 war. That’s why on the second day General Musa told Ayub that his army had run out of ammunition. The war didn’t last long and Pakistan was forced to sign a ceasefire at Tashkent that finally brought General Ayub down. Nur Khan says it was an “unnecessary war” and he compares it to the equally unnecessary 1999 Kargil Operation where the Pakistan Navy was kept out of the loop and prime minister Nawaz Sharif had to run off to Washington to sue for peace because India was said to have moved its fleet and was preparing to threaten Karachi.

The first big lesson is that Pakistan as a state should not think in military terms. It should not credit the Pakistani generals’ belief that only military victories will ensure Pakistan’s future. The Argentine general who fought the Falklands war to present “the gift of the Malvinas” (Argentina’s Kashmir) to the Argentine nation was drummed out of power by the very people who had egged him on. The victory General Ayub had dreamed about did not materialise because it was based on the erroneous belief that India was too cowardly to attack. This was based on another theory — which dismembered Pakistan in 1971 — that the defence of West Pakistan contained a level of deterrence that India would not challenge. East Pakistan discovered that its defence was non-existent because it depended only on the defence of West Pakistan.

General Ayub’s 1965 war ruined the good economic indicators his era had achieved. The military leaders who followed him kept interfering in politics and feeding the nation more lies. The 1965 war was well fought because of superior US equipment which was not meant to be used against India. The war proved that Pakistan had joined the US pacts under false pretences. Later the army turned anti-American and made the textbooks say that America had let Pakistan down in 1965 and 1971. Declassified papers relating to the Nixon era inform us that Nixon had indeed prevented India from attacking West Pakistan in 1971.

The lesson from 1965 is the same as drawn by Nur Khan: that the military should stay away from political power, that Pakistan should demilitarise its mind and think of options other than war to ensure its survival, that the economy should be given the primacy it deserves; and that, last but not least, Pakistan should consolidate itself internally, re-establish the social contract with the people that it has lost because of its coercive ideology, and focus on the internal threats that confront it. *
 
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We people have nothing to do and you have the burden of whole Pakistan on your shoulders or so it seems.

Btw you seem to like the arm pit music too much. Why dont you make some of your own and listen to it everytime you are browsing this forum. It will remind you of your wonderful contribution to this forum.

AFA the sad rants go then take the media sources of most of the developed world and they will have the same opinion about 65,71 and Kargil.

I know its not going to do any good to your mind because you are more or less indoctrinated to not to listen to others. Well how can you.. for that you will first have to stop listening to arm pit music . which you never would because you're so fond of it.
Back to your sad Indian ploys i see.
All cousins jump in to salvage some pride and rub each others back.
Keep at it boys as this is the only way you can thrive, and in any case, a wise old man once said, each Pakistani is equal to five Indians, you only prove that decisively.:pakistan:
 
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