Mystery of the Downed Mystère of IAF No 1 Squadron

[Windjammer]

Mig 21 was virtually out of the conflict or seen some minor actions...due the low numbers and lack of training to fly mig 21....IAF made daring raids .....despite being inferior qualitatively for they lacked AA missiles.

Fact is before our Economic boom you were the first in getting top notch military hardware be it..

Maritime reconnaissance aircraft

you had an aircraft carrier even in 1965 war and does TU-142 ring any bells. And what's a daring raid...just compare how many Indian aircraft PAF destroyed on the ground and what did IAF hit....in these strikes, the AAM was of no value.

Air superiority/Multi Role.... F16

Albeit India always had the numerical superiority but after PAF acquired mere 40 F-16s, India went on a spree with Mirage-2000, MiG-29 and later SU-30.

Submarines

Pattons

But unfortunately....this never helped you ... and now we live in India of.....SU 30 mkis...Mig 29ks... etc

Keeping an enemy four times it's own size at bay and maintaining air superiority, i would say PAF held more than it's own, You may be living under SU-30s and others, however we will talk when one of these aircraft has a kill under it's belt.

 

[Bornubus]

@Windjammer

1. IN TU142s were inducted in 1988....pak had Maritime reconnaissance aircraft and Helis in 1970s....+ PN inducted First submarine in Subcontinent.....IN aircraft carrier was of little use in 1965.

2.AAM had no value....?

like seriously...

Its like asking North Korea to bomb ground targets in Okinawa...with MIG 17 and face F16 blk60 arm with "no value" AAM

3.Again ....India's 1st Air superiority fighter initially MIG 29.. inducted much later in late 80s and SU 30s in 2002....so basically it was F16 vs MIG 21.....Before the induction of
Mig 29.

4.pak always had qualitative edge Before 90s ...

 

[Windjammer]

@Windjammer

1. IN TU142s were inducted in 1988....pak had Maritime reconnaissance aircraft and Helis in 1970s....+ PN inducted First submarine in Subcontinent.....IN aircraft carrier was of little use in 1965.

2.AAM had no value....?

like seriously...

Its like asking North Korea to bomb ground targets in Okinawa...with MIG 17 and face F16 blk60 arm with "no value" AAM

3.Again ....India's 1st Air superiority fighter initially MIG 29.. inducted much later in late 80s and SU 30s in 2002....so basically it was F16 vs MIG 21.....Before the induction of
Mig 29.

4.pak always had qualitative edge Before 90s ...

Pakistan didn't have any maritime recce capability in the 70s, it acquired Dassault Atlantique after the 1971 war and only SAR helicopters.
As i said only about two dozen PAF fighters were fitted with first generation AAMs which were virtually useless a fact proven that most of the IAF victims were through gun kills.
And what's this F-16 VS MiG-21, it's not as if they went to war against each other besides you also had MiG-23s.
BTW, while Pakistan was under sanctions, India had all at it's disposal during the 2002 stand off but those SU-30s and MiG-29s would come flying towards the border but turn back 10 km short. as if they were spooked.

 

[Bornubus]

Pakistan didn't have any maritime recce capability in the 70s, it acquired Dassault

Pakistan didn't have any maritime recce capability in the 70s, it acquired Dassault

Are you sure


Breguet Atlantic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Westland Sea King - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Windjammer]

Are you sure


Breguet Atlantic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Westland Sea King - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You want to do some home work to find out as when were these inducted.......much after the 1971 war.

 

[Bornubus]

You want to do some home work to find out as when were these inducted.......much after the 1971 war.

you yourself said that Pak had no Maritime reconnaissance in 70s....but these Aircrafts/Helis were inducted in 70s

 

[dray]

An amazing tale of bravehearts!

So IAF pilots were on suicide missions....when they ventured deep behind enemy lines ....we didn't even had MIG 21 ...in good numbers

MiG 21got the FOC in 1966 only.

 

[Windjammer]

An amazing tale of bravehearts!



MiG 21got the FOC in 1966 only.

Here's the Indian version although other sources disagree with the figure of only two MiG-21s destroyed claiming as up to five or even seven, in any case it debunks your claim of MiGs not being operational.

THAT IS WHEN THE PAF STRUCK!!

When I went to the Station Commander around 4 PM, he floored me with a different plan. At this time the first MiG-21 squadron was just becoming operational, and two of their aircraft, with their Commanding Officer, Wing Commander MSD "Mally" Wollen, and his flight commander "Laddu" Sen had been allocated to Pathankot for operational duties. The plan was that they would get airborne around 6 PM, climb to 40,000 feet altitude and do supersonic runs in the vicinity. Obviously these tracks would be picked up by Pakistani radar. This was expected to put the fear of God into the Pak commanders, who would then not attack our airfield.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There was pandemonium. Bullets were flying all around. We all rushed to the nearest trench and dived in, not sitting and crouching as we should have been but piling ourselves flat on top of each other!! We could hear and see the Pakistani Sabres going round and round, as though in range practice, and picking off all the possible aircraft, including the two MiG-21s, in spite of the anti-aircraft guns blazing away. The rest is history. We were told that four Sabres had attacked, but since they were going round and round we couldn't count them accurately whenever we put our head up in the trench.

MEMOIRS

The Day The PAF Got Away

Air Marshal S Raghavendran

 

[xyxmt]

lolzz are u serous ....how ?

you took 15 minute from your life to reply to his post

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

THe F104 was no match for a Mystere in a close combat at Low Altitude. F104 was a high altitude interceptor with hit and run capabilities.

It was never designed for close combat---this thing could stall at speeds below 300-350 knots. Same thing with the Sabre F86----high altitude fighter interceptor.

F104 had pretty much only one shot at a slower moving fighter aircraft----that is the blind intercept---after that it lost its position of strength.

 

[SQ8]

4.pak always had qualitative edge Before 90s ...

Can you prove it?

With EXACT.. and I mean EXACT manufacturing dates, technical capabilities of ALL IAF and PAF aircraft to date?

 

[Bornubus]

Can you prove it?

With EXACT.. and I mean EXACT manufacturing dates, technical capabilities of ALL IAF and PAF aircraft to date?

IAF had MIG 21,23 ....before the induction of MIG 29 in 1987.....PAF had F16s....





by Meinhaj Hussain

"Pakistan and India. Two regional powers frequently at war, armed to the teeth, possessing nuclear weapons and with no end in sight to their mutual animosity. War in the Subcontinent today has very high stakes. But none higher than in their respective air arms. Given the importance of air combat to modern warfare, a crucial factor to analyze the outcome of any conflict between them becomes analyzing the viability of each air force. For wars today always begin in air combat, and the successor there often has Fate decide in its favor.

The Pakistan Air Force has traditionally been known as one of the most professional air forces in the world. But the 1990s was a tough decade for the PAF and much of their prestige was lost. Pakistan chose to invest in nuclear weapons and diverted resources there. Damaging sanctions against Pakistan also hurt the PAF more than any other armed service. Thus, a decade was lost and PAF was left behind.

The Indian Air Force meanwhile, found the 1990s most fruitful. They progressed in leaps and bounds as the Indian economy expanded, military equipment from the West and Russia opened up and the IAF started learning and incorporating Western standards of air combat. Yet there were times when India's political environment forced itself upon the IAF. Forced to wait for a local replacement for its MiG-21s that has been in development for over 20 years, and forced to abandon purchases because of political interference from within India, the IAF, on the turn of the century, found itself restrained"

 

[SQ8]

IAF had MIG 21,23 ....before the induction of MIG 29 in 1987.....PAF had F16s....





by Meinhaj Hussain

"Pakistan and India. Two regional powers frequently at war, armed to the teeth, possessing nuclear weapons and with no end in sight to their mutual animosity. War in the Subcontinent today has very high stakes. But none higher than in their respective air arms. Given the importance of air combat to modern warfare, a crucial factor to analyze the outcome of any conflict between them becomes analyzing the viability of each air force. For wars today always begin in air combat, and the successor there often has Fate decide in its favor.

The Pakistan Air Force has traditionally been known as one of the most professional air forces in the world. But the 1990s was a tough decade for the PAF and much of their prestige was lost. Pakistan chose to invest in nuclear weapons and diverted resources there. Damaging sanctions against Pakistan also hurt the PAF more than any other armed service. Thus, a decade was lost and PAF was left behind.

The Indian Air Force meanwhile, found the 1990s most fruitful. They progressed in leaps and bounds as the Indian economy expanded, military equipment from the West and Russia opened up and the IAF started learning and incorporating Western standards of air combat. Yet there were times when India's political environment forced itself upon the IAF. Forced to wait for a local replacement for its MiG-21s that has been in development for over 20 years, and forced to abandon purchases because of political interference from within India, the IAF, on the turn of the century, found itself restrained"

Sorry , copy paste attempts with amateur articles aren't going to cut it.
Unless you are capable of giving a YEAR by YEAR breakdown of equipment in service of both airforces, your claims are hollow and ignorable.

 

[krash]

An amazing tale of bravehearts!



MiG 21got the FOC in 1966 only.

Here's the Indian version although other sources disagree with the figure of only two MiG-21s destroyed claiming as up to five or even seven, in any case it debunks your claim of MiGs not being operational.


MEMOIRS

The Day The PAF Got Away

Air Marshal S Raghavendran

I also remember reading in "Fiza'ya" (written by Pushpindar Singh, Ravi Rikhye and Peter Steinemann) that the Mig-21s stationed at Pathan Kot were continuously flying supersonic sorties over the base in attempts to scare off any incoming attack by the PAF with their sonic booms. 10 min (if I remember correctly) before they were supposed take off for their next sortie the PAF struck and put the Mig-21s out of the war while still on the ground.

This same book also mentioned the incident between Amjad's F-104 and Devayya's Mystere. Although it gave credence to Amjad's story of flying through the Mystere's debris and rejected the Indian claim of Devayya downing the F-104 while himself on his way down after being struck by Amjad.

*Interestingly these two Indian authors are well-known for their anti-PAF & Pakistan rhetoric.

I was saying most of IAF sorties behind enemy lines and not just sqn ldr Devayya...IAF did not had AA missiles at that time...

Not really. The AAM of that time seldom worked as intended. As is shown by the fact that only a very few kills achieved by the PAF in that war were through AAM kills while an overwhelming majority were by cannon fire.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

"Sometimes its better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt".

it is even better to ignore the troll
the way he baited everyone with his post should have been enough sign that he wants to fck this good thread. a story of sacrifice and commitment of two air warriors belonging to opposing air forces.

but sadly you and others chose to quote him and although his message is deleted but it lives on in all the reply posts as a quote there.. which is an on going tragedy with such cases. his purpose served

if you an others can still edit your posts then remove his quoted nonsense. otherwise ask the mods to do it for you

An amazing tale of bravehearts!



MiG 21got the FOC in 1966 only.

legacy is carried from teacher to pupil.....

these are the comments, although one liners but true representation of reaction to anyone who reads them without any malice or nationalistic jingoism. truly it is a very raw and real story of sacrifice and dedication and I wish that the grave of the fallen Indian pilot is marked and given full respect and if the IAF wishes, the body remains be repatriated with full military honours.