What's new

Mystery of CPEC Payments

What was the question Indians asked of its government? How to remain in sub Saharan level of poverty.

Well congratulations, they answered it. Feel superior now? Or would you like to ask a few more.

Well...You do pose a philosophical question there. Is it better to have the illusory right to question and squander it, or is it better to have no such right and believe in the illusion that one is better off for it?

What are your views?

First a few things, generating power, having this road, and etc are all realities. You know what isn't a reality? A good plan.

You talk of Sri Lanka and what not, guess what without our money they have no port. No it may not have been as successful as one would hope, but it's there.

You living in Germany, you may not appreciate this, Germany can afford to wait, if nothing gets done, nothing bad happens to the Germans.

If countries like India and Pakistan wait, then you will remain in poverty one more day.

You want lengthy discussions? That would be good, except neither India nor Pakistan gave itself room to breath, hence there is no time.

Yes, during China's rush to build many things went wrong, but you know what we have now, world's second largest freeway system, largest bullet train system, and complete electricity and running water coverage. No it's not done to perfection, but talking about it more, means these people will once again be left without water and electricity, once more they need to sit in a train for 3 days to visit their family.

To Germany, not having trains means flying, not having an airport you can drive. To Chinese, Indian and Pakistani, not having something means you are stuck in the stone age.

On the surface your argument does make sense. But you miss out one major factor here. In all three countries, if there is no accountability, then it is very likely to turn out that any and every project was just an exercise in corruption and swindling the public.

And further, there is something called allocative efficiency in economics. What if the real requirement is for a mixture of education, healthcare and infrastructure, rather than just the last one? If we spend all money on it and have nothing left for the others, then who will pay for it?

These are just examples by the way. It does not mean that you are completely wrong. I am just showing you the other side. CPEC may yet turn into a great success story. But if you think that it would be so because of lack of oversight, I think you are mistaken. The only way of keeping decision-makers earnest is to make it known that they are constantly being watched and their actions evaluated.
 
.
Why are you so paranoid, really? If CPEC is such a good thing then what could possibly go wrong with a few articles and some people merely discussing it?

Better to keep the enemy guessing! I guess you are too naive to understand that.

Ever played poker? I guess not! You'll see the cards in due course, have patience and don't moan if a player isn't willing to show.
 
.
Well...You do pose a philosophical question there. Is it better to have the illusory right to question and squander it, or is it better to have no such right and believe in the illusion that one is better off for it?

What are your views?

China's lack of democracy actually made everyday a campaign for people's vote. That's one of those ironies. Democracies campaign once every four years, China campaigns everyday.

There is no right answer here, because I seriously think congress had all the tools to have made India at least a great power by 1970s, they had so much power, even with a election, yet here we are.

On the surface your argument does make sense. But you miss out one major factor here. In all three countries, if there is no accountability, then it is very likely to turn out that any and every project was just an exercise in corruption and swindling the public.

And further, there is something called allocative efficiency in economics. What if the real requirement is for a mixture of education, healthcare and infrastructure, rather than just the last one? If we spend all money on it and have nothing left for the others, then who will pay for it?

These are just examples by the way. It does not mean that you are completely wrong. I am just showing you the other side. CPEC may yet turn into a great success story. But if you think that it would be so because of lack of oversight, I think you are mistaken. The only way of keeping decision-makers earnest is to make it known that they are constantly being watched and their actions evaluated.

This is all fine in theory. Believe me, ideally, that is what should happen. But life must go on, and 1% better now is better than 50% someday, because usually in these countries, someday means never.

Yea, Chinese projects had tons of corruption, the quality could be better, people could have been better compensated and a million other things, but to Chinese a bullet train to your hometown means more time for your family when you had preciously little already. A real project means real paychecks, no matter how underpaid you are relative to the officials.

See these are real life problems that needs to be solved. My point wasn't China India needs no oversight, it's that oversight usually means nothing get done, or delays at the least and in terms of a developed nation as Germany, they can wait until the sun turns purple, but China and India need this infrastructure now.

Nothing's like fresh tap water than fresh tap water. The promise of a problem free project just doesn't fill that thirst.
 
.
China's lack of democracy actually made everyday a campaign for people's vote. That's one of those ironies. Democracies campaign once every four years, China campaigns everyday.

There is no right answer here, because I seriously think congress had all the tools to have made India at least a great power by 1970s, they had so much power, even with a election, yet here we are.



This is all fine in theory. Believe me, ideally, that is what should happen. But life must go on, and 1% better now is better than 50% someday, because usually in these countries, someday means never.

Yea, Chinese projects had tons of corruption, the quality could be better, people could have been better compensated and a million other things, but to Chinese a bullet train to your hometown means more time for your family when you had preciously little already. A real project means real paychecks, no matter how underpaid you are relative to the officials.

See these are real life problems that needs to be solved. My point wasn't China India needs no oversight, it's that oversight usually means nothing get done, or delays at the least and in terms of a developed nation as Germany, they can wait until the sun turns purple, but China and India need this infrastructure now.

Nothing's like fresh tap water than fresh tap water. The promise of a problem free project just doesn't fill that thirst.

So if I can understand you correctly, your position is system-neutral. I can live with that. Just two minor points:

Up until the mid-90s, the same system of not discussing and questioning had fetched China exactly the same result as India's democracy had as far as economic performance is concerned. In fact, it was only after integration into the global economic order, more specifically after induction into WTO, that China became an economic power. So it had very little to do with political systems and everything to do with economic reforms.

As of now, South Asia is not a textbook case for studying the efficacy of democracy or lack thereof. China has done a good job of lifting masses out of poverty, but in the global system is an exception. You might have noticed that all other wealthy and countries in the world, with the exception of the GCC are open democracies. And the GCC are not economically vibrant, they are a one-trick pony and once the oil runs out no one can say what happens.

And even in China's case, it is a project that is half done. Until the early 90s, Japan's economic model was hailed as a model - a private sector operating in close cooperation with the government and corporate debt without oversight. Today, 3 decades of bad performance later - we only see problems with this model. Maybe, all this we hear about the China model is only one such episode away? If growth slows down to under 4% and China gets caught in the middle income trap, it will stop being the exception and will become the same as all other authoritarian countries, right?

Better to keep the enemy guessing! I guess you are too naive to understand that.

Ever played poker? I guess not! You'll see the cards in due course, have patience and don't moan if a player isn't willing to show.

Wow... What an analogy you draw. Poker, really? You have no belief in accountability, do you? According to you people are cattle - decisions to be taken on their behalf by the high and mighty and they just follow without question. Quite dangerous.

As if those who wish to do espionage will be deterred by the fact that information is not available on a website! Since all intelligence agencies just rely on Google and press releases, right? Grow up!
 
.
Its not so much about keeping it a secret as much as it is the lack of transparency. You probably understand how the Chinese work, most of the details are on a need-to-know basis, its similar in Pakistan except there isnt even really the infrastructure for sharing details of administration outside of basic facts such as the national budget, or national statistics.

That being said, this culture might change as the largest opposition party is campaigning on a platform of anti-corruption and transparency. Maybe next year if they win the elections we could get more details, or maybe when the current projects in their own province (Khyber Pakhtunkhwa) are finished we could get some more details from the provincial government.

The reason why this is important is because of the risk of corruption. AFAIK, Punjab especially has a recent history of infrastructure projects that are primarily kickback schemes for the government. Don't put it beyond these people to look at CPEC as just an exercise to steal money. These are politicians after all. It would be the same in India.

I hope your faith in Imran are proven correct.

My understanding is that the projects in Africa are large state-owned enterprises doing one-off investments in various areas without taking into account various factors like the environment, the local economy, the population, etc. so they arent really the same thing,

Largely correct.

with CPEC they have a vested national interest to see it succeed as it directly impacts their own country.

I have myself thought of the exact same point. And also because of all the projects they have done abroad, this one is the most high profile, and they know the world is watching.

One thing is for sure, the Chinese are obviously too eager to complete the construction phase. What escapes notice is that the Chinese literally have nothing to do with all the stuff they are sending to Pakistan for the project, so for them it is a gain in any case. Even if they can make foreign countries pay part of the value of these things, that is still better than them rotting in China without any use.

so I would hold off judgement untill everything is in place and is under operation.

Fair enough.

key role in linking the two of Chinas largest projects, the One Belt, One Road, and the Maritime Silk Road; Furthermore it plays a key role in linking connectivity with Xinjiang and Central Asia with a route to the sea which is part of their plan to overhaul and bring prosperity to that region.

Yes, the need for connectivity to Western China will still be there, notwithstanding anything else. That gives Gwadar good prospects.

Sri Lanka but is that really a good comparison? that is just a single port that was poorly administrated, and left without much support which meant it was doomed to fail; CPEC as a whole is far wider in scope in that it encompasses Pakistan, Central Asia, and Chinese provinces, as well as the fact that it utilities projects in every single sector from agriculture to tourism.

Actually, the Sri Lankan project is indicative of a larger phenomenon with Chinese projects. Debt servicing rates are too high. The reason for that is partly the terms on offer, but also because the Chinese have a tendency to overbuild. Infrastructure projects are usually completed in phases where one builds only as much as one can monetize or use for the near future. One can make a provision for expansion, but if you think "build and they will come", then what is going to happen is that the bill will be due much before you have found a use for the project. What is the source from which you then repay?

The main route itself unlike the other projects in Africa and ASEAN makes use of Pakistan's largest cities, Karachi, Hyderabad, Multan, Lahore, Islamabad, Peshawar, each utilising different projects with different capacities. With the massive amount of interaction going into the projects it is almost certain that it will boost economic growth to offset the costs of the loans.

CPEC and Gwadar unlike the Sri Lankan Port, has also attracted a lot of interest and many major companies and nations have expressed their intention to invest a lot of many into various projects. Most recently Germany announced yesterday that they plan to put in €109 million for various projects, this among the interest shown from all over the world essentially means the overall project is 'too big to fail'. Businesses all over have already committed, and many are testing the waters to put in further investment. With further reductions in terrorism and an increase in electrical supply, its almost certain that we will see even more future investment.

True that CPEC is more comprehensive. Pakistan does need the energy supply surely. Security is the key to future investment.

I also want to point out that this is a joint initiative by both the governments of Pakistan and China. As I stated before the Chinese are training thousands of Pakistani technicians to oversee the projects and have employed workers across the country, at the moment I believe that theres around 18,000 employed in several projects, and according to Pakistani job sites there will be 300,000 vacancies over the next 12 years. Government estimates have also stated that the total number of employment will range from 700,000 up the 2.3 million.

The main rationale for undertaking such a debt burden is what is known as the multiplier effect. And in order to gain that, skilled manpower is a must. Right now Pakistani companies are excluded from most of the construction work due to lack of expertise. If skilled manpower is available locally, only then can the industries that will supposedly take advantage of CPEC develop.

My comment was just in general and from the mostly negative reactions of Indians to CPEC as opposed to the mostly positive reaction from people of other nationalities.

Obviously many Indians are interested in CPEC. In geo-politics, people mostly understand zero sum games. In that sense, many Indians would believe that CPEC is to India's detriment. And you would agree that the standard Pakistani mindset has also been zero sum against India. Even China, only recently now that it is invested in the region, would like some degree of cooperation and mutual growth as it currently suits their interest.

Many Indian members here do believe that CPEC is for the good and hope that with economic growth and stability in Pakistan, things will be better for India as well. While I personally do not believe that geo-politics is all about zero sum games, I do believe that it is too early to decide whether CPEC is any good for India. It is, after all, an economic project. If peace and growth in Pakistan results in a change in focus (let's face it, Pakistan has had little focus apart from Kashmir and assymetric warfare since independence), then of course it is welcome. But there is no guarantee of that. In fact it could just turn out that once the Pakistani state finds some economic breathing space, it will look to force issues that are best laid to rest.

So for India, a wait and watch approach may be best.
 
.
Here's how China does it-They open escrow account in Hong Kong,Chinese firms send men and equipment to Pakistan,money is wired directly to Chinese firms without reaching Pakistani banking system
 
. .
You have no belief in accountability, do you? According to you people are cattle - decisions to be taken on their behalf by the high and mighty and they just follow without question. Quite dangerous.

Calm down!! It's not your tax money so none of your business. Stop getting your knickers in a twist just because the information is not available to you, you are not part of this 'public' you talk of.

And stop your obsession of 'teaching the Pakistani people of their rights'.

Btw, the nuclear programme was kept secret from the public, even on your side too!. Not every single thing the state does at a strategic level should be open to public scrutiny - is India open about everything to her public!??. Elected cabinet ministers and provincial ministers are in the information loop and that's enough for now. More information will come out in due course.
 
.
Three alarm bells
l_197495_122052_print.jpg


Capital suggestion

Trade deficit: For the first time ever in Pakistan’s history, our imports are projected to hit $50 billion. For the first time ever in Pakistan’s history, our trade deficit is projected to hit a colossal $30 billion. (Trade deficit is the “amount by which the cost of a country’s imports exceeds the value of its exports”).

The export sector has crashed, foreign exchange remittances are trending downwards and there is no meaningful foreign direct investment. For the record, Pakistan’s current account deficit has widened by an alarming 121 percent during the first eight months of the ongoing fiscal year compared to the same period last year. (Current account deficit is the “measurement of a country’s trade where the value of the goods and services it imports exceeds the value of the goods and services it exports”).

How will we finance a current account deficit that is projected to hit a colossal $8 billion? How will we finance a current account deficit that is projected to hit a shocking four percent of our annual GDP? What will happen to our current account deficit if the oil prices keep on going up?

To be certain, the $30 billion trade deficit is not sustainable and there are three logical consequences: additional debt, devaluation of the rupee and a higher rate of inflation. Unfortunately, our future will have all three: additional debt, devaluation of the rupee and a higher rate of inflation.

Energy sector: The real elephant in this sector is the circular debt. To be sure, loadshedding is a symptom, the real disease is the circular debt. On March 7, 2013, the PML-N came out with a 104-page election manifesto. The manifesto specifically made 42 power-sector related promises. In July 2013, the PML-N government paid off a mammoth Rs480 billion outstanding circular debt promising that the party will not ‘tolerate’ the accumulation of circular debt ever again.

By March 2017, we discovered that circular debt had once again reached Rs414 billion. Pakistan continues to lose $50 billion a year every year because of loadshedding and loadshedding is all because of circular debt. Yes, line losses are marginally down. Yes, recovery is marginally up. Yes, the PML-N government has inaugurated a dozen power plants. But there haven’t been any fundamental power sector reforms at all. We are essentially where we were in 2013.

Budget deficit: The FBR now admits to a revenue collection shortfall of Rs100 billion. But there are two issues: first, the FBR has been holding back refunds to the tune of Rs200 billion and second, there are off-budget deficits that amount to over Rs400 billion. The real budget deficit is projected to hit six percent of the GDP as opposed to the budgeted fiscal deficit limit of 3.8 percent of the GDP.

The budgetary deficit at this level is not sustainable and there are five logical consequences: additional debt, higher taxes, higher debt payments, higher rates of interest and higher rates of inflation. Unfortunately, our future will have all five: additional debt, higher taxes, higher debt payments, higher rates of interest and higher rates of inflation.

The writer is a columnist based in Islamabad.

https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/197495-Three-alarm-bells
 
.
The latest quarterly report by the State Bank of Pakistan points out an intriguing development regarding the payments connected with CPEC projects. This year, the gap between import recorded by the Pakistan Bureau of Statistics (PBS) and the State Bank has widened to a historic high. The report says that over a 10-year period, this gap has been an average of $1.6 billion, but this year it climbed to $3bn.

There are good reasons why there should be a gap between the figures reported by the PBS and those reported by the State Bank. The PBS uses customs data, where goods landing at the port are valued by the customs authorities before being assessed for duty, while the State Bank uses banking data, where banks report how much they have paid for imports through letters of credit.

Often goods that land at the port have been paid through means other than a banking channel, or in some cases they are paid under a deferred payment plan, so the goods arrive and their value is registered as an import by customs, but the payment is sent much later through banks.

But there are no good reasons as to why this discrepancy should be so large, and why this massive gap should materialise so suddenly in the first half of the current fiscal year. A closer look shows some interesting developments. Here is what the report says: “a large share of this discrepancy can be explained by the surge in import of power generation machinery, which is being recorded by customs but is not fully visible in import financing data available with SBP. The gap in import data for power generation equipment also widened dramatically to US$ 1.1bn in H1-FY17, from the previous 10-year’s average of just US$ 193 million. Since most power sector activity in the country is taking place under the CPEC umbrella, it is highly probable that the widening gap between the two import datasets is linked with the CPEC”.

It appears that power-generation machinery is landing at the port but the outgoing payments cannot be seen.
So it appears that power-generation machinery is landing at the port but the corresponding outgoing payments for this machinery cannot be seen. Either the payments will be due much later, or the companies responsible for the projects are simply making the payments directly in China, after taking a loan from a Chinese bank. This is how the report puts it: “Typically, banks report import financing data to SBP after importers make payments against L/Cs. However, that appears not to be the case with imports of power generation machinery over the past two and a half years: there has been a relatively minor increase in these imports based on L/C-level data provided by commercial banks to SBP. Hence, it appears that the bulk of these machinery imports are being financed from outside the Pakistani banking channel.”

Translation: we’re not sure what’s going on. How are we seeing large-scale imports landing at the port, but not seeing any payment going out for them? If the settlement is being made “outside the Pakistani banking channel”, what does that imply for the “investments” we were supposed to see from China? Surely the outflows on debt servicing will go from the Pakistani channel, but the inflows are not being routed through it.

“This difference indicates that capital equipment imports into the country, FDI and loans from China are not being fully captured in BoP data,” says the report. So our balance-of

payments accounts is now way off, and we have an ever-diminishing idea of how much is coming and going. But what happens once these projects begin commercial operations and their debts and repatriation of dividends gets going? Will that bill arrive with a bang?

Connected to this is another intriguing development: the level of Chinese foreign direct investment coming into the country appears to have fallen, even as the project’s implementation is gathering pace and large-scale machinery imports are getting going. Inflows from China as direct investment actually dropped this year by 54 per cent compared to last year, with the bulk of this decline in the power sector.

So how come the power sector is seeing massive amounts of Chinese activity, with projects gathering speed and momentum and large amounts of machinery landing at the port, while imports and investment from China are either stagnant or declining sharply? Connected with this is the fact that loans from China are rising, particularly for balance-of-payments support. In the first half of the fiscal year, the government has received $848m in loans from a Chinese bank, presumably as balance-of-payments support to help pay for whatever Chinese imports are coming, for which payments are being sent through the Pakistani banking system.

Given the massive scale of the funds involved, the State Bank is right to feel a little puzzled as to why the banking system has not felt the stress from these payments. For now, we can rejoice that material is landing in the country seemingly for free, but project documents make clear that these are commercial projects, so it should be equally clear that soon outflows will begin to pay their cost. So if the stress hasn’t manifested itself yet, that could mean it will arrive later, in magnified form, because we will have to pay not only for the equipment, but interest on top.

This is further evidence that we do not fully know how CPEC is really going to work once it gets going. If the government knew that this is how the procurement would work, it would have been a good idea to inform the State Bank in advance so they would not be taken by surprise in December of this year and have to launch a rather large reconciliation exercise. And if they didn’t know that this is how things were going to work, then one can only wonder what else they don’t know about these deals.

The writer is a member of staff.

khurram.husain@gmail.com

Twitter: @khurramhusain

Published in Dawn, April 6th, 2017

https://www.dawn.com/news/1325124/mystery-of-cpec-payments
Some people say that Chinese has already brought $50 billion in Pakistan since the CPEC begun...
 
.
Here's how China does it-They open escrow account in Hong Kong,Chinese firms send men and equipment to Pakistan,money is wired directly to Chinese firms without reaching Pakistani banking system

And how is that bad for Pakistan!? Nothing wrong with this process. Out of $52b, around $10b or so is loan.

Even if the loan is delivered in the form of a completed project, nothing wrong with that! Such practice is common in business.

Plus Pakistan and China have an agreement in place that Pakistan can pay PKR instead of USD for settlement. So we are in good shape.

Chinese delivering the completed projects is far better than payments routed through the hands of corrupt politicians who always want a slice in everything they can get their hands on, this delaying the delivery. This is called risk mitigation, if anyone has any idea of project management.

Pakistan continues to lose $50 billion a year every year because of loadshedding and loadshedding is all because of circular debt

There goes the credibility of this article and writer!
 
. .
Calm down!! It's not your tax money so none of your business. Stop getting your knickers in a twist just because the information is not available to you, you are not part of this 'public' you talk of.

And stop your obsession of 'teaching the Pakistani people of their rights'.

Btw, the nuclear programme was kept secret from the public, even on your side too!. Not every single thing the state does at a strategic level should be open to public scrutiny - is India open about everything to her public!??. Elected cabinet ministers and provincial ministers are in the information loop and that's enough for now. More information will come out in due course.

Now I have heard everything. Apparently an infrastructure and revitalization project is the same as a strategic nuclear program. So the need for utmost secrecy.

Nations that think like this become Zimbabwe and North Korea. Hope Pakistan has very few like you. We are done on this thread at least. Good bye.
 
.
Now I have heard everything. Apparently an infrastructure and revitalization project is the same as a strategic nuclear program. So the need for utmost secrecy.

Nations that think like this become Zimbabwe and North Korea. Hope Pakistan has very few like you. We are done on this thread at least. Good bye.

You would obviously leave the thread now that your propaganda attempt has been nullified.

CPEC is a strategic project. It will have a global impact on trade. Secrecy is fine and need of the hour.
 
.
Now I have heard everything. Apparently an infrastructure and revitalization project is the same as a strategic nuclear program. So the need for utmost secrecy.

Nations that think like this become Zimbabwe and North Korea. Hope Pakistan has very few like you. We are done on this thread at least. Good bye.
And how is that bad for Pakistan!? Nothing wrong with this process. Out of $52b, around $10b or so is loan.

Even if the loan is delivered in the form of a completed project, nothing wrong with that! Such practice is common in business.

Plus Pakistan and China have an agreement in place that Pakistan can pay PKR instead of USD for settlement. So we are in good shape.

Chinese delivering the completed projects is far better than payments routed through the hands of corrupt politicians who always want a slice in everything they can get their hands on, this delaying the delivery. This is called risk mitigation, if anyone has any idea of project management.



There goes the credibility of this article and writer!
not 10 billion dollar but 2 billion soft loan Govt to Govt. Don't worry about imports and it is for machinery imports and good for economy and its mean in two year to three year time Pakistan progress will be very high. Pakistan have same issue on Musharraf time and later Pakistan come very good. Watch complete video to understand CPEC and don't fall in Indian propaganda on CPEC or Pakistani economy. Soon Pakistan economy wheel will run like anything
 
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom