Myanmar General Discussion (non military)

[William Hung]

Don't really know on that one. We're quite an insular and multi-ethnic society so having affinity with other countries is not a thing. I guess it would be Thailand from our neighbours for obvious reasons, but seeing as there aren't many 'Yodaya-thamarr' in the country, it comes down to the ones we have in the country - Chinese, Hindu Indians and Muslims. It would be a tough call between Hindus and Chinese. Racially we're closer to the Chinese but culturally we're closer to the Indians. So I don't think I can give a clear answer on that one. I do know that a lot of Burmese try to travel to Gaya atleast once in their life so maybe that tips it in India's favour.

Interesting, I never knew Burmese are culturally more similar to Indian. I've only met one Burmese (uni student) in my entire life and it never occurred to me that he was culturally Indian.

don't you think we can send people and money into the country who regards Muslim as their enemy and should be butchered at en masse?

From my neutral perspective, the Rohingya situation is more of a social issue rather than a religious one. Thats just my opinion, I'm not too knowledgeable about it.

 

[TopCat]

We need safety to conduct business, ethnic and religious hatred issue is very dangerous for business people, as our population is largely Muslim, don't you think we can send people and money into the country who regards Muslim as their enemy and should be butchered at en masse?

Indonesia is doing great and will do it without Burmese. There are plenty of places to do business with. We Bangladeshi's have hardly any business with them despite being a neighbor. As far as I know some telecom operator wanted to relocate some of their employee to Burma from Bangladesh and having hard time to convince them.

 

[TopCat]

 

[TopCat]

 

[alaungphaya]

We need safety to conduct business, ethnic and religious hatred issue is very dangerous for business people, as our population is largely Muslim, don't you think we can send people and money into the country who regards Muslim as their enemy and should be butchered at en masse?

I think you've been reading too many sensationalist articles. Muslims aren't butchered anywhere, and your business class know this and again I'm quite happy with the level of cooperation with Indonesia. Maybe the average man (or woman) on the street may not be as well informed but there is absolutely no security risk. Of all those companies you listed before, I haven't heard of most of those but I can say that the cement company is opening a factory soon and the bank did not apply nor would it have got a licence so it's a moot point.

Perhaps in your country.
Your argument is valid. If Bangladesh has done a lot of jobs migrating these refugee into, then at some point BD can say the word "enough".

But then again, because you do not regard Rohingya as one of your kinds, even though they share the same language from long long time ago, then what is your point to cry when Myanmar execute them? I'm not saying what Myanmar doing is the right thing, though.

No one is being executed. Infact, it was the army stepping in that stopped a lot of the violence (as strange as it may seem). There is also the added problem with Muslims in that they always have extremist elements with them. If the Rohingya didn't have jihadist tendencies and supported jihadism, they would have less problem integrating.

 

[alaungphaya]

We have different ethnicity, race and religion in our country. We cant call any foreigner as ours and give preference to any particular ethnicity while granting refugee status. If we welcome Rohingyas in our country then the Rakhaine and Marma's who are also BD citizen will feel discriminated. Again if we let them come in on the basis of religion then our Hindus and Buddhist will feel discriminated. So our citizen comes first regardless of race and religion and that is what our constitution says.

Secondly we are the most populated country on the earth and we cant take anymore and we are poor as well. We did what we could.

Thirdly, No country should be rewarded for the atrocities against minorities. If we all start allowing Rohingyas which is what Burmese want will be a reward for them. We should including Thailand (Karen refugee) should press for repatriation of all refugee and equal rights and honor once repatriated in Burma.


Human rights is a universal thing. We will always raise our concern when people are butchered specially in the next door. Its does not mean we have to bring those in but we should always press the perpetrator and if possible send them to Hague.

Idiot Bangladeshi strikes again.

- Bangladesh is one of the most homogenous countries in the world. Those Marma are getting more and more persecuted and we have been quietly allowing them to come reside in Myanmar. You don't do the same because, like with NE India, you are trying to export your people so they can outnumber the natives. Buddhists and Hindus in your country are already discriminated.

- According to you, Bangladesh is more super duper than India and Pakistan and yet you can't allow a few hundred thousand of your own kind in? Something is wrong there.

- Karen refugees in Thailand are not only welcomed back but we are encouraging them to come back. We desperately want them back like we do all the diaspora (do you see the difference?)

Interesting, I never knew Burmese are culturally more similar to Indian. I've only met one Burmese (uni student) in my entire life and it never occurred to me that he was culturally Indian.

That's because he's not. He will be culturally Burmese. But that is closer to Indian than Chinese, which is my point.

From my neutral perspective, the Rohingya situation is more of a social issue rather than a religious one. Thats just my opinion, I'm not too knowledgeable about it.

I agree 100%. Absolutely. This is about natives and foreigners. When both societies are very poor, there will be tensions. When one of the societies is muslim, there will be an extremist element that gets added to the equation. When the foreign society has an extremely poor, land starved, illiterate country of 200 million behind it, the incumbent society will be extremely wary of cohabitation. When this happens, these two societies will fight. That is what's happening.

 

[alaungphaya]

The sort of people who listens to this guy are the Burmese equivalents of you the other BD idiots who support islamist parties and believe in delusional crap like greater Bengal. Fortunately, there are less idiots in Myanmar than in Bangladesh so the fundamentalists have less representation in society.

 

[alaungphaya]

http://online.wsj.com/articles/suu-kyi-urges-u-s-to-keep-pressing-for-change-in-myanmar-1415198039
Suu Kyi Urges U.S. to Keep Pressing for Change in Myanmar
West Should Be Ready to Stiffen Policy If Progress Halts, Opposition Leader Says

ENLARGE
Myanmar's top opposition leader, Aung San Suu Kyi, holds a new conference at her party’s headquarters, a week before world leaders gather in Myanmar for a summit. Agence France-Presse/Getty Images
By
Shibani Mahtani And
Myo Myo
Updated Nov. 5, 2014 12:14 p.m. ET
0 COMMENTS
YANGON, Myanmar—Opposition leader Aung San Suu Kyi said the U.S. has been too optimistic about the depth of Myanmar’s transition away from military rule and that it should be ready to stiffen policy if progress toward democracy halts.

Speaking Wednesday at a news conference at her ramshackle party headquarters—the first she has hosted in more than a year—Ms. Suu Kyi challenged those who have celebrated President Thein Sein ’s reform efforts to show “what significant reform steps have been taken” in recent months.

“I don’t think the reform process is going forward,” Ms. Suu Kyi said, and world leaders are “reconsidering their optimism.’’

Ms. Suu Kyi spoke a week before world leaders, including U.S. President Barack Obama , will gather in Myanmar for a summit hosted by the Association of Southeast Asian Nations. Mr. Obama called both Mr. Thein Sein and Ms. Suu Kyi last week and urged faster progress toward democracy.

Mr. Obama is under pressure from critics in Washington and human-rights groups to show in the meetings here that the U.S. retains leverage over Myanmar’s overhauls, launched in 2010 after the military that had ruled for decades began a transition to civilian rule but retained a key role in politics. Elections are due next year.

U.S. economic sanctions imposed during the military era have been steadily eased over the past two years to reward and encourage democratic progress, but key steps such as amending the constitution, which currently bars Ms. Suu Kyi from becoming president and enshrines a de facto veto by the military in the legislature, have stalled.

Meanwhile, a national cease-fire with armed rebel groups remains elusive despite a continuing peace process. Sectarian violence by majority Buddhists against minority Muslims has flared, and one minority group, the ethnic Rohingya Muslims in western Myanmar, has fled the country by the tens of thousands or they remain in camps for displaced people due to persecution.

Ms. Suu Kyi’s affirmed that her National League for Democracy party would continue to campaign for changes to the constitution and chip away at the military’s hold on power.

The news conference came days after Ms. Suu Kyi took part in a high-profile meeting of political power brokers last week that included talks with the military’s commander-in-chief, Senior Gen. Min Aung Hlaing, for the first time. The meeting also included parliament speaker Shwe Mann, who is a likely presidential contender next year.

Ms. Suu Kyi had been urging such talks for some time and acknowledged that simply holding them was important, but she described the outcome as inconsequential. Constitutional changes were discussed, but no specific clauses—including one barring her from becoming president because she has foreign sons—were mentioned, she said.

“The meeting last week should not be used as a way to avoid real negotiation,” she said.

Write to Shibani Mahtani at shibani.mahtani@wsj.com

Interesting to see her making a power play.

 

[somsak]

ike with NE India, you are trying to export your people so they can outnumber the natives.

Bro, How do you come to such a conclusion. It is a big claim. Intention is difficult to prove cause it must conclude by inference on many evidences. Can you show me why do you believe so?

 

[alaungphaya]

Bro, How do you come to such a conclusion. It is a big claim. Intention is difficult to prove cause it must conclude by inference on many evidences. Can you show me why do you believe so?

There is less English language literature wrt to Myanmar but in NE India, the demographic shift has been happening for a long time. This is why a lot of NE Indians come here to PDF to argue in the BD section. Search for 'Greater Bengal' or 'Greater Bangladesh' and there will be a lot of sources you can read or just browse the BD section.

On the Burmese side, this paper lays it out quite well (and is an academic paper):

https://www.soas.ac.uk/sbbr/editions/file64388.pdf

This is another famous academic piece written by a non-Burmese

http://www.netipr.org/policy/downloads/19720101-Muslims-Of-Burma-by-Moshe-Yegar.pdf (edited)

If you want to understand the situation fully, please read these articles in full.

 

[Ragnar]

Don't really know on that one. We're quite an insular and multi-ethnic society so having affinity with other countries is not a thing. I guess it would be Thailand from our neighbours for obvious reasons, but seeing as there aren't many 'Yodaya-thamarr' in the country, it comes down to the ones we have in the country - Chinese, Hindu Indians and Muslims. It would be a tough call between Hindus and Chinese. Racially we're closer to the Chinese but culturally we're closer to the Indians. So I don't think I can give a clear answer on that one. I do know that a lot of Burmese try to travel to Gaya atleast once in their life so maybe that tips it in India's favour.

That is very interesting information.
Please post more on the culture, tourist spots, food, infrastructure development etc. Despite being a neighbour,we know little about Myanmar. There are people here wanting to visit, but are hesitant due to information on sites like these:
Myanmar travel guide - Wikitravel
I don't know how much is actually true.

 

[alaungphaya]

That is very interesting information.
Please post more on the culture, tourist spots, food, infrastructure development etc. Despite being a neighbour,we know little about Myanmar. There are people here wanting to visit, but are hesitant due to information on sites like these:
Myanmar travel guide - Wikitravel
I don't know how much is actually true.

I would love to but I just get bogged down in arguments about politics, the economy or the Rohingya. I might open a separate thread when I have the energy. I assume that site is quite out of date.

 

[TopCat]

Idiot Bangladeshi strikes again.

- Bangladesh is one of the most homogenous countries in the world. Those Marma are getting more and more persecuted and we have been quietly allowing them to come reside in Myanmar. You don't do the same because, like with NE India, you are trying to export your people so they can outnumber the natives. Buddhists and Hindus in your country are already discriminated.

- According to you, Bangladesh is more super duper than India and Pakistan and yet you can't allow a few hundred thousand of your own kind in? Something is wrong there.

- Karen refugees in Thailand are not only welcomed back but we are encouraging them to come back. We desperately want them back like we do all the diaspora (do you see the difference?)

It was an answer to the gentleman from Thailand.

The answer to Burmese "Your morning banana is already served. Go back to your tree"

The sort of people who listens to this guy are the Burmese equivalents of you the other BD idiots who support islamist parties and believe in delusional crap like greater Bengal. Fortunately, there are less idiots in Myanmar than in Bangladesh so the fundamentalists have less representation in society.

If you are the mirror of the Burmese society then we already know what it is. LOL

Bro, How do you come to such a conclusion. It is a big claim. Intention is difficult to prove cause it must conclude by inference on many evidences. Can you show me why do you believe so?

He thinks people are dying to go to his hell hole country when millions are languishing in refugee camp outside. LOL

 

[TopCat]

There is less English language literature wrt to Myanmar but in NE India, the demographic shift has been happening for a long time. This is why a lot of NE Indians come here to PDF to argue in the BD section. Search for 'Greater Bengal' or 'Greater Bangladesh' and there will be a lot of sources you can read or just browse the BD section.

On the Burmese side, this paper lays it out quite well (and is an academic paper):

https://www.soas.ac.uk/sbbr/editions/file64388.pdf

This is another famous academic piece written by a non-Burmese

http://www.netipr.org/policy/downloads/19720101-Muslims-Of-Burma-by-Moshe-Yegar.pdf (edited)

If you want to understand the situation fully, please read these articles in full.

These report only cement the truth that Rohingyas were of similar number of Arakanese by 1921 which came down to almost 20% of the total population of Arakan after so much of persecution. Time to say enough and divide Arakan between Muslim and Others.

 

[TopCat]

http://online.wsj.com/articles/suu-kyi-urges-u-s-to-keep-pressing-for-change-in-myanmar-1415198039
Suu Kyi Urges U.S. to Keep Pressing for Change in Myanmar
West Should Be Ready to Stiffen Policy If Progress Halts, Opposition Leader Says
View attachment 146348 ENLARGE
Myanmar's top opposition leader, Aung San Suu Kyi, holds a new conference at her party’s headquarters, a week before world leaders gather in Myanmar for a summit. Agence France-Presse/Getty Images
By
Shibani Mahtani And
Myo Myo
Updated Nov. 5, 2014 12:14 p.m. ET
0 COMMENTS
YANGON, Myanmar—Opposition leader Aung San Suu Kyi said the U.S. has been too optimistic about the depth of Myanmar’s transition away from military rule and that it should be ready to stiffen policy if progress toward democracy halts.

Speaking Wednesday at a news conference at her ramshackle party headquarters—the first she has hosted in more than a year—Ms. Suu Kyi challenged those who have celebrated President Thein Sein ’s reform efforts to show “what significant reform steps have been taken” in recent months.

“I don’t think the reform process is going forward,” Ms. Suu Kyi said, and world leaders are “reconsidering their optimism.’’

Ms. Suu Kyi spoke a week before world leaders, including U.S. President Barack Obama , will gather in Myanmar for a summit hosted by the Association of Southeast Asian Nations. Mr. Obama called both Mr. Thein Sein and Ms. Suu Kyi last week and urged faster progress toward democracy.

Mr. Obama is under pressure from critics in Washington and human-rights groups to show in the meetings here that the U.S. retains leverage over Myanmar’s overhauls, launched in 2010 after the military that had ruled for decades began a transition to civilian rule but retained a key role in politics. Elections are due next year.

U.S. economic sanctions imposed during the military era have been steadily eased over the past two years to reward and encourage democratic progress, but key steps such as amending the constitution, which currently bars Ms. Suu Kyi from becoming president and enshrines a de facto veto by the military in the legislature, have stalled.

Meanwhile, a national cease-fire with armed rebel groups remains elusive despite a continuing peace process. Sectarian violence by majority Buddhists against minority Muslims has flared, and one minority group, the ethnic Rohingya Muslims in western Myanmar, has fled the country by the tens of thousands or they remain in camps for displaced people due to persecution.

Ms. Suu Kyi’s affirmed that her National League for Democracy party would continue to campaign for changes to the constitution and chip away at the military’s hold on power.

The news conference came days after Ms. Suu Kyi took part in a high-profile meeting of political power brokers last week that included talks with the military’s commander-in-chief, Senior Gen. Min Aung Hlaing, for the first time. The meeting also included parliament speaker Shwe Mann, who is a likely presidential contender next year.

Ms. Suu Kyi had been urging such talks for some time and acknowledged that simply holding them was important, but she described the outcome as inconsequential. Constitutional changes were discussed, but no specific clauses—including one barring her from becoming president because she has foreign sons—were mentioned, she said.

“The meeting last week should not be used as a way to avoid real negotiation,” she said.

Write to Shibani Mahtani at shibani.mahtani@wsj.com

Interesting to see her making a power play.

Queen bee fell for the tricks .. She is burmese by herself and should had known. LOL