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Myanmar-Bangladesh relations

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Nor should you tolerate bigotry. I have said many times over that I lament a lot of Burmese and their attitudes in this whole affair and a lot of people haven't painted themselves in a positive light.

However, I do think BD accepting Rohingya is the unfortunate but equitable thing to do. Atleast give them the choice of settling in BD or Myanmar. I think Thailand made a similar offer to Karens in their camps a few years ago.

It can be done.

But then, do not blame us if the Rohingyas want justice against the Burmese leaders and people who instigated decades of violence and persecution against them. We will support them all the way.

The Pakistanis did something similar to us once. Even with a more powerful military and Western support, it didn't end well for them.

DASSK and the people of Myanmar will change their mind when faced with a full blown Rohingya insurgency and international condemnation. Rohingya is a well documented international persecution case which some are claiming to be crimes against humanity. So when sh!t hits the fan, DASSK and your people will not know which way to turn but to change their mind.

This geopolitical game is not one that is hard to solve in my opinion, all the elements and pieces are there, all we need to do is make sure that the right moves are made on time.

And about Islamophobia, please do not forget Indonesia and Malaysia, our Muslim brothers in ASEAN.

For ASEAN+ (ASEAN-10+Japan+Korea+future states), please leave Taiwan out of it. Both China and USA need to give their blessings for ASEAN+ idea, even though the blessings will be forced out of them. So Taiwan is an absolute no-no.

If they are so, so Islamophobic, then why did they even join ASEAN in the first place? I don't get it. Something is not adding up here.


To Bangladeshi posters, please comment on the insurgency ideas:

Considering this material and history, there is a strong case of supporting Rohingya insurgency. I will make the following initial recommendation:

- the insurgency should be less religiously oriented and more defensive and human-rights oriented. So "Arakan Mujahid" name should change to "Arakan Self Defense Forces"

And who's going to pay for them? Funding insurgencies cost money. War is expensive.

- insurgency support should be covert, Bangladesh govt. will officially deny any support or involvement, as always, but Bangladesh Armed forces as well as DGFI should be intimately involved

Somebody, someday will notice it. It'll lead to a whole new level of paranoia over there. Maybe worst. As it is said, better to live than die needlessly. They have suffered for generations. Why force them to more violence?

- we need to activate the Rohingya diaspora community to get involved

We'll need their support. I for one will strongly support a trail of the Burmese generals and community leaders responsible for the crimes against Rohingyas. Every Muslim with a sense of honor should support this endeavor.

- the goal would not be to liberate Arakan or part of Arakan, but rather negotiate rights of citizenship in Myanmar constitution, reparation for past atrocities and return to stolen land to land owners, but if they fail to budge, the last resort is for them to carve out a de facto enclave this side of Arakan Yoma mountain range

Not sure if they'd do that. They are pretty poor people too after all.

- sanctuary has to be provided for insurgents in Bangladesh land, so they can escape when needed and sneak back in at more convenient times

As I explained...why put them into more hardship?

- Bangladesh as a country also should gear up for war against Myanmar, just in case if they decide to attack us, as they may think that they are stronger than Bangladesh, while they could do nothing against China or Thailand, as both are much stronger than Myanmar, while we are just marginally stronger

We still need better gear to match up against them. But then, that's the last thing we'd want to see.
 
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Hey disguised indian, why dont india accept all indians in Malaysia, Fiji and other places in Africa. We can send even Rakhine in Bangladesh to Myanmar. But we are not indian BIGOT like yourself who are out to commit genocide against religious minority population.

idune Bhai, regardless of whether this is a false flag Indian or not, please look at the posts I made about the situation in Myanmar. There are 101 insurgencies among all kinds of ethnic groups, Karen, Chin and some of them are Christians. The Myanmar Burman dominated govt. is giving them rights only after prolonged fighting and then after getting into cease-fire with them. I think Rohingya insurgency option may work to eventually get this Rohingya problem into some kind of resolution.

If we don't do anything now, and if they kick all Rohingya's out, we will loose a significant geopolitical leverage in Rakhine state and Myanmar in general and we should also not forget India is investing in Sittwe to connect to Indian NE states by seas, going over this Muslim populated land in Rakhine and Chin.

May be we should thank RAW and its alleged staging of this incident to open a can of worms.
 
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Why the RAW and India obsession? I mean anything that you don't like you start blaming on India. Heck a poster you don't like, and a poster who is only representing his country's viewpoint, (not defending other country all the time like gutterdung) is also Indian.

You guys are in deep denial, and kallus really stupid pretending to be ''scholarly'' is the biggest joke as what he ends up saying is really juvenile. Poor chap. He lost in his war in 1971, although managed to kill lots of Hindus, but there are hardly any Hindus in Myanmar...
 
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Hey disguised indian, why dont india accept all indians in Malaysia, Fiji and other places in Africa. We can send even Rakhine in Bangladesh to Myanmar. But we are not indian BIGOT like yourself who are out to commit genocide against religious minority population.

Hey, stupid Bengali boy. I AM NOT INDIAN. I'm not even Indian Burmese.

It can be done.

But then, do not blame us if the Rohingyas want justice against the Burmese leaders and people who instigated decades of violence and persecution against them. We will support them all the way.

The Pakistanis did something similar to us once. Even with a more powerful military and Western support, it didn't end well for them.



If they are so, so Islamophobic, then why did they even join ASEAN in the first place? I don't get it. Something is not adding up here.




And who's going to pay for them? Funding insurgencies cost money. War is expensive.



Somebody, someday will notice it. It'll lead to a whole new level of paranoia over there. Maybe worst. As it is said, better to live than die needlessly. They have suffered for generations. Why force them to more violence?



We'll need their support. I for one will strongly support a trail of the Burmese generals and community leaders responsible for the crimes against Rohingyas. Every Muslim with a sense of honor should support this endeavor.



Not sure if they'd do that. They are pretty poor people too after all.



As I explained...why put them into more hardship?



We still need better gear to match up against them. But then, that's the last thing we'd want to see.

ASEAN was a Thai-Malay-Singapore brainchild. Ofcourse they are members. They are SOUTH EAST ASIANS. But don't forget that Malays and Indos have in the past allowed Rohingyas to die on the seas rather than give them sanctuary. So don't count on them too much.

As far as I remember, we never supported Rohingya insurgency wholeheartedly, it was always a confusing halfhearted effort. If Bangladesh decides to "unofficially" support Rohingya's to defend themselves against ethnic cleansing, they will go back in droves to fight for their land and existence. This is the dream come true for them and Myanmar's worst nightmare in their little racist minds. So I think your/Myanmar luck will quickly run out, the moment Bangladesh sincerely take up the Rohingya issue.

You want to cosy up to ASEAN but dream of funding an islamic insurgency in your only ASEAN neighbour. That's a contrary view.

DASSK and the people of Myanmar will change their mind when faced with a full blown Rohingya insurgency and international condemnation. Rohingya is a well documented international persecution case which some are claiming to be crimes against humanity. So when sh!t hits the fan, DASSK and your people will not know which way to turn but to change their mind.

Like you said before, Myanmar is a country of endless insurgencies. The Rohingya are too weak to mount any meaningful one. Remember that we have survived Chinese backed insurgencies in the past. I think arming up against the Burmese will be a policy of suicide for the Rohingya.
 
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Compared to the burmese guy with a coherent argument all others posts look like stupid, even Zabanya's.
And he talked exactly what I was talking about, ganging up (only in a better language than me).

I understand (and even he acknowledged) that burmese dont like muslims much, probably because of lack of multiculture there.
Only way forward will be neogiated settlement, both countries are not in a position to fight war (although a war will suit burmese generals a bit)
 
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I have to disagree with the multi-culturalism. We are very multi-cultural. There are many Muslims of Indian heritage in Yangon along with every other race and creed. But there are numerous perceived historical reasons for islamophobia which are too long for me to go into here.
 
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I have to disagree with the multi-culturalism. We are very multi-cultural. There are many Muslims of Indian heritage in Yangon along with every other race and creed. But there are numerous perceived historical reasons for islamophobia which are too long for me to go into here.
What will be percentage breakdown of minorities in burma. Also are they scattered around the country rather than concentrated in big city?
Also, can you elaborate the historical reason for islamophobia (if you have time and energy).

There are not many burmese on this forum, why not invite a few fellow burmese so that we will have a wider range of views. (if you can)
 
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The Burmese proper (like me :azn:) constitute 65% of the population. Muslims make up about 5% (I'm not sure if this includes Rohingya as they might not be counted). There are Christians in the northern Kachin and Shan states and in the western Kayin (Karen) state. Muslims on the other hand are quite concentrated in Yangon or in Yakhine (Arakan) state. There are some panthay (Muslims of Chinese heritage) in other northern places but they are not too common. Hindus are concentrated mainly in Yangon. There is also a small, Sephidic Jewish community in Yangon. Anyway, we will be doing our first census in 30 years in 2014 so maybe I can give you a better answer then. :)
 
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A good article addressing a lot of the points we've been discussing: Why sectarian conflict in Burma is bad for democracy | Transitions

Sectarian violence in the western region of Burma that shares a long border with Bangladesh has now claimed at least 25 lives since Friday. President Thein Sein has declared an emergency in Arakan State, where a feud between ethnic Arakan Buddhists against stateless Rohingya Muslims has spiraled into full-blown communal violence. The looting, arson, and mob clashes are spreading fast.

Although a predominantly Buddhist state, Arakan is home to a large number of Muslims, including the estimated 800,000 Rohingya, who are regarded by the Burmese government as stateless illegal aliens. The United Nations has described them as one of the world's most persecuted minorities. However, many Burmese call them "Bengalis," or even use a racial slur, kalar, a derogatory term for foreigners, especially those of Indian appearance.

Given the present situation, it's worth recalling J.S. Furnivall, the scholar who introduced the idea of the "plural society" to early 20th-century scholarship. Furnivall, a top Civil Service officer serving in colonial Burma, came up with his theory after studying Burma under British colonial rule. In his view, the myriad ethnic groups in Burma led to a disintegration of common social will.

"In Burma, as in Java, probably the first thing that strikes the visitor is the medley of peoples -- European, Chinese, Indian, and native," he writes. "It is in the strictest sense a medley, for they mix but do not combine. Each group holds by its own religion, its own culture and language, its own ideas and ways."

Furnivall blamed the atomization of society on the laissez-faire economic forces introduced by British colonial rule in Burma. The medley of peoples was held together solely by an economic nexus and had no social or cultural ties. What an insight!

For Burmese nationalists, Furnivall reasons, the objective is not to reform and humanize plural society, but to resist and reject it. Furnivall, who wrote as early as in 1931 that "[N]ationalism in Burma is morally right," felt that ethnic Burman nationalism was an apt solution to a divisive plural society.

Unfortunately, Burmese history has produced ample evidence that Furnivall's optimism was unfounded. Burman-Buddhist nationalism, which historically lacks inclusiveness, has deepened ethnic divisions, triggered intractable civil war, and prompted coercive assimilation in minority regions. This is a failed model for an otherwise promising multi-ethnic and multi-religious society.

President Thein Sein was right when he warned in his televised speech this weekend that "if we put racial and religious issues at the forefront ... if we continue to retaliate and terrorize and kill each other ... the country's stability and peace, democratization process, and development ... could be severely affected and much would be lost."

There are other people among the ruling elite, however, who, though not responsible for causing the outbreak of violence, have effectively exploited it for their own agendas. The reports in both state and private media treated last month's rape and murder of a local woman that led to the outbreak of violence not as a criminal case, but as a racial crime. The reports highlighted the identity of the victim as an Arakan Buddhist girl and of the alleged perpetrators as Muslims. On June 3, 10 Muslims were killed in the same region in apparent retaliation for the murder of the Buddhist girl. The state media even used the racial epithet kalar when referring to the Muslims, but then issued a correction (not an apology) the following day. A senior official in the Presidential Office has used his personal Facebook page to inflame matters by framing the issue as a matter of national security, and urging the people to rally behind the armed forces. Racially charged comments from proud-to-be-Burman racists are proliferating across social media. There are several violent racist blogs and groups, such as the "Kalar Beheading Gang," on Facebook.

Since politics is all about "who gets what, when, and how," it would be naive not to think in terms of winners and losers. Both sides in this conflict are underdogs: the Arakan people, who are repressed and exploited by the Burman-dominated military regime, and the Rohingyas, who reside at the bottom of Burma's discriminatory landscape. By killing each other, they themselves become the ultimate losers. It is the military that ends up as the clear winner. The government's initial passivity in enforcing law and order in Arakan state has led the public to demand decisive military intervention. The longer the conflict goes on, the more likely it is that the army will emerge as the indispensible defender and savior of "national security."

The timing of the conflict clearly benefits the rulers. The sequence of events could cost Aung San Suu Kyi dearly. Suu Kyi, who begins her first European trip in 24 years on Wednesday, humiliated Burma's nominally civilian government when she visited Thailand last month to an enthusiastic public reception. But the ongoing communal clashes will likely overshadow her trip and undercut the domestic coverage of her actions abroad. The government's proxies will say that she's promoting herself and her personal popularity while her people suffer back at home.

She is already being pressured by the local media and some public figures to take a clear stand on the Rohingya issue. In Europe, where a network of Rohingya exiles is well-established, she will be asked by the media about her position on Rohingya rights. I'll bet that the Burmese military will be very happy to see her tackle such questions, since her answer could either cost her a large number of domestic supporters who are hostile to the Muslim minority, or contradict her moral stand of prizing equal rights for minorities.

Meanwhile, the international community has called for a halt to the violence and a transparent investigation. The communal violence, however, continues to rage in Arakan state, and local residents say that the authorities are still failing to restore stability and enforce the rule of law.
 
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I have over the years come across a few burmese who have without fail displayed racist attitude towards others. I think it is part of their genetic makeup compounded by low IQ. I work for a German Technology Consultancy and sometimes these chaps are sent over by one of our chinese client to familiarise themselves to the technology. They seem to have beef with everyone including themselves. You may not believe me once one of these guys refuse to sit next to a Ghanian dude cause he was black. The one time one burmese women turned up with bizarre stuff on her face. Looked like a bangkok ladyboy. In a professional environment as you can imagine these Neanderthals have no place.

The rohinga issue needs to be highlighted to the world. This is not Bangladeshs problem, it is burmese problem and it is for them to solve. I agree with the BAL Government of not letting the rohingya in as that will prompt further ethnic cleansing. Also we should not get into any discussion with the burmese. Simply beef up the border areas so they do not presume any misadventure. As they are trying to enter the realms of civilisation let their own action damn them.

Bangladesh has a route to the world via the sea, connection to china over land would be good but not that critical. Whilst the rohinga issue should not be considered above our national interest, against the unsophisticated burmese we must remain absolutely resolute and firm. Deal with them only if it serves our interest. It is about time a nation of 170m shows the disdain and contempt that these racist uncivilised uncultured nation deserve.
 
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Hey, stupid Bengali boy. I AM NOT INDIAN. I'm not even Indian Burmese.


Talking like an indian, acting like an indian and smelling like an indian claim as Burmese...what a BIGOTTED stink.
 
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alaungphaya - Ignore these bangladeshi posters who are calling you Indian.. even in their dreams they are haunted by Indians :devil:.. they are too much India obsessed and will not be able to debate with a logical reasoning... so try to ignore some of these folks..

Talking like an indian, acting like an indian and smelling like an indian claim as Burmese...what a BIGOTTED stink.
 
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^ See, now that's proper racism. :rofl:


No its called opinion formed of real life albeit limited observation of a few people from a particular country. I deal with an international clientele daily and after some time you pick up on particular national traits.

What your country is doing to the rohingas is racism (on the assumption you are not a false flagger).

your silly garbage about your military and sui chi is irrelevant to Bangladesh Burma relations as is the Rohinga issue. This is your problem sort it out. Dont come up with excuses whilst people are dying, but then again you do not think them as your people do you? You do not even consider them people just Kalar.... its hilarious i have not seen the said burmese to be fairer than your average bengali or indian? Where are these fair burmese? What are these people talking about?
 
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Hey, stupid Bengali boy. I AM NOT INDIAN. I'm not even Indian Burmese.

ASEAN was a Thai-Malay-Singapore brainchild. Ofcourse they are members. They are SOUTH EAST ASIANS. But don't forget that Malays and Indos have in the past allowed Rohingyas to die on the seas rather than give them sanctuary. So don't count on them too much.

You want to cosy up to ASEAN but dream of funding an islamic insurgency in your only ASEAN neighbour. That's a contrary view.

Like you said before, Myanmar is a country of endless insurgencies. The Rohingya are too weak to mount any meaningful one. Remember that we have survived Chinese backed insurgencies in the past. I think arming up against the Burmese will be a policy of suicide for the Rohingya.

Association of Southeast Asian Nations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
ASEAN was preceded by an organisation called the Association of Southeast Asia, commonly called ASA, an alliance consisting of the Philippines, Malaysia and Thailand that was formed in 1961. The bloc itself, however, was established on 8 August 1967, when foreign ministers of five countries – Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines, Singapore, and Thailand – met at the Thai Department of Foreign Affairs building in Bangkok and signed the ASEAN Declaration, more commonly known as the Bangkok Declaration. The five foreign ministers – Adam Malik of Indonesia, Narciso Ramos of the Philippines, Abdul Razak of Malaysia, S. Rajaratnam of Singapore, and Thanat Khoman of Thailand – are considered the organisation's Founding Fathers.[12]

Our govt. are now doing the same, pushing Rohingya's back to sea, against public opinion which you can see in this forum, so Malaysia and Indonesia govt. doing the same can be understood, as there is already too many of them there like there is in Bangladesh.

ASEAN may be South East Asians, but 40-50% of current 600 million ASEAN population is Muslim, so I do not see how well Myanmar Islamophobia will fly there.

Proposed ASEAN expansion includes PNG and East Timor which are not considered South East Asians. Japan and South Korea are also not South East Asians.

Sometimes we have to do the right thing regardless of consequence, even sacrificing our own interest. Saving the existence of Rohingya community in Arakan can be one of those cases for Bangladesh. If we lose hope for ASEAN membership, so be it then.

But before we move towards supporting insurgency, we have to exhaust all other means of persuasion, via UN and via ASEAN. I do not believe any ASEAN state should be allowed to get away with such gross human rights violations. If we can get a resolution from ASEAN of this Rohingya issue then we do not have to go for the last resort.

There are 730,000 Rohingya's in Rakhine state and more than a million refugee's scattered in many different countries including Bangladesh. So I do not see how you underestimate their ability, if they get our full support.
 
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