Myanmar aircraft cross Bangladesh border, fire shells

[Sayfullah]

Myanmar envoy summoned, says border incident was unintentional: Momen

Bangladesh on Sunday reiterated deep concerns over falling mortar shells inside its territory, indiscriminate aerial firing from Myanmar in the bordering areas, and air space violations from Myanmar. According to the latest report, on Saturday two mortar shells fell inside Bangladesh between BP 40

thefinancialexpress.com.bd

Yes, people like you are forcing Pakistan to eat grass to buy military weapons. Pakistan should re-set its priorities.

Priority number 1 is ensuring we survive. Unlike Bangladesh, we have enemies surrounding us. To the East we have 8x bigger india which claims all of Jammu and Kashmir and our river Sir Creek including parts of our EEZ. To the West we have Afghanistan which is hub of anti Pakistan terrorists and Afghanistan don’t recognize Durand line and claim more then half of Pakistan. Also to our West we have Iran which has harboured anti pak terrorists and is close ally of India allowing Indian raw agents like khulbushan to enter Pakistan via Iran. Inside Pakistan we have many anti state elements fighting the state.
We are in a constant state of war that is IMPOSED ON US. We cannot opt out of it unless we accept giving up majority of our country. Bangladesh has peace since it’s existence while Pakistan has been at war since 71. How is economic development possible when your sovereignty is challenged and you cannot counter it? Economic development for a country like Pakistan is only possible once all threats are countered or can be countered.

Pakistan has its priorities right that’s why on 26 February 2019 when india dared to drop its payload in Pakistani territory the next day in broad daylight on 27 February 2019 we bombed 6 of their targets inside their territory and we shot down 2 of their fighter jets. We countered an enemy 8x bigger and put it in its place. Bangladesh cannot even counter smaller size Myanmar.
Pakistan’s ability thanks to its priorities is far beyond this region as well. We’ve ensured our survival. Can the same be said about Bangladesh? Can Bangladesh confidently say it’s safe and secure against it neighbours? What guarantee is there even that Bangladesh won’t be invaded in the next year? At least for Pakistan it has nuclear deterrent to even prevent super power usa from invading it. Usa wanted to invade Pakistani tribal areas in 2008-2009 time but thanks to our nuclear deterrence we built up we successfully deterred even usa from invading us. We even made super power America pay with interest in Afghanistan. Does Bangladesh even have the ability to do 1% of this? Had Pakistan been faced with a situation similar to Bangladesh’s them rohingyas would already be free.

You guys need to get your priorities right because without ensuring your sovereignty, economic development is meaningless.

Even in the Quran it tells us to always be prepared for war:
“Prepare against them what you ˹believers˺ can of ˹military˺ power and cavalry to deter Allah’s enemies and your enemies as well as other enemies unknown to you but known to Allah. Whatever you spend in the cause of Allah will be paid to you in full and you will not be wronged.”
- Surah Al-Anfal - Verse 60

 

[Bengal71]

Very long post with some parts I can agree with but this part is simply not correct.

I have already replied that TRG-300s are "shoot and scoot" systems and BA is already placing them in large dense forests. Even the USAF would have problems taking these systems out very quickly. Forget IAF and even more so MAF.

The systems are very good, no doubt. But no system in isolation is a game changer, they should all be part of a greater strategy, they should complement other systems and should be complemented by other systems. There is no AF to speak of, heck there is not even an Airbase. There is no navy to speak of, the army is somewhat ok but has outdated equipment. Also BD buys these systems with very limited number of ammo, it's almost as though they are just collecting small samples of exotic weapon systems just to play with among themselves, the procurement strategy does not take into consideration any war like scenario. In summary, the BD military is pathetic. It is not fit for purpose. There is no point talking about some individual weapon systems.

Every previous government from 1990s is responsible for this situation, specially BAL as they are now ruling for 14 years. If the military was not neglected, BD should have had a military at least half the size of Pakistan which would be quite capable. 32 years of neglect has now piled up. The AF and Navy needs to be upgraded but there is the burden of 32 years of non-procurement which now needs to be procured. Developing/poor countries like ours don't have the money to buy 100/200 jets in one go, they do regular procurement in small and manageable numbers and at any given time they have a respectable force. For example, the hundreds of jets PAF has were procured over the last 40 years, they still operate Mirage and F-16s that were procured nearly 40 years ago. If the BAL government took defense seriously over the last 14 years, the burden of 32 years of non-procurement would have been reduced significantly by now. If there is a new government that really wants to upgrade the military, they have a mammoth task at hand and this is the folly of BAL. I don't see much of a future for BD military unless we have a good leader who understands the need for credible defence.

 

[Bengal71]

Priority number 1 is ensuring we survive. Unlike Bangladesh, we have enemies surrounding us. To the East we have 8x bigger india which claims all of Jammu and Kashmir and our river Sir Creek including parts of our EEZ. To the West we have Afghanistan which is hub of anti Pakistan terrorists and Afghanistan don’t recognize Durand line and claim more then half of Pakistan. Also to our West we have Iran which has harboured anti pak terrorists and is close ally of India allowing Indian raw agents like khulbushan to enter Pakistan via Iran. Inside Pakistan we have many anti state elements fighting the state.
We are in a constant state of war that is IMPOSED ON US. We cannot opt out of it unless we accept giving up majority of our country. Bangladesh has peace since it’s existence while Pakistan has been at war since 71. How is economic development possible when your sovereignty is challenged and you cannot counter it? Economic development for a country like Pakistan is only possible once all threats are countered or can be countered.

Pakistan has its priorities right that’s why on 26 February 2019 when india dared to drop its payload in Pakistani territory the next day in broad daylight on 27 February 2019 we bombed 6 of their targets inside their territory and we shot down 2 of their fighter jets. We countered an enemy 8x bigger and put it in its place. Bangladesh cannot even counter smaller size Myanmar.
Pakistan’s ability thanks to its priorities is far beyond this region as well. We’ve ensured our survival. Can the same be said about Bangladesh? Can Bangladesh confidently say it’s safe and secure against it neighbours? What guarantee is there even that Bangladesh won’t be invaded in the next year? At least for Pakistan it has nuclear deterrent to even prevent super power usa from invading it. Usa wanted to invade Pakistani tribal areas in 2008-2009 time but thanks to our nuclear deterrence we built up we successfully deterred even usa from invading us. We even made super power America pay with interest in Afghanistan. Does Bangladesh even have the ability to do 1% of this? Had Pakistan been faced with a situation similar to Bangladesh’s them rohingyas would already be free.

You guys need to get your priorities right because without ensuring your sovereignty, economic development is meaningless.

Even in the Quran it tells us to always be prepared for war:
“Prepare against them what you ˹believers˺ can of ˹military˺ power and cavalry to deter Allah’s enemies and your enemies as well as other enemies unknown to you but known to Allah. Whatever you spend in the cause of Allah will be paid to you in full and you will not be wronged.”
- Surah Al-Anfal - Verse 60

While I agree that Pakistan needs the military it has and there is even room for growth, Pakistan doesn't have it's priorities right.

I don't believe Pakistan's large defence budget has anything to do with it's economic woes. Pakistan's issue is it's military officials' uncontrolled grip over the affairs of Pakistan as well as severe economic mismanagement.

 

[nahtanbob]

Every previous government from 1990s is responsible for this situation, specially BAL as they are now ruling for 14 years. If the military was not neglected, BD should have had a military at least half the size of Pakistan which would be quite capable. 32 years of neglect has now piled up. The AF and Navy needs to be upgraded but there is the burden of 32 years of non-procurement which now needs to be procured. Developing/poor countries like ours don't have the money to buy 100/200 jets in one go, they do regular procurement in small and manageable numbers and at any given time they have a respectable force. For example, the hundreds of jets PAF has were procured over the last 40 years, they still operate Mirage and F-16s that were procured nearly 40 years ago. If the BAL government took defense seriously over the last 14 years, the burden of 32 years of non-procurement would have been reduced significantly by now. If there is a new government that really wants to upgrade the military, they have a mammoth task at hand and this is the folly of BAL. I don't see much of a future for BD military unless we have a good leader who understands the need for credible defence.

The PAF budget runs on subsidies courtesy of USA and China. PAF acquired their F-16s at $30-40 million compared to $80-100 million others shell out

 

[Bengal71]

The PAF budget runs on subsidies courtesy of USA and China. PAF acquired their F-16s at $30-40 million compared to $80-100 million others shell out

Alright if that's correct. But if we are to maintain a military half the size of Pk, it suits our needs and don't need subsidy. If we procure with a plan and regularly, we can procure with our own money and perhaps with loans for big ticket items.

 

[nahtanbob]

Alright if that's correct. But if we are to maintain a military half the size of Pk, it suits our needs and don't need subsidy. If we procure with a plan and regularly, we can procure with our own money and perhaps with loans for big ticket items.

that would mean a $2 billion air force budget

 

[BananaRepublicUK]

Alright if that's correct. But if we are to maintain a military half the size of Pk, it suits our needs and don't need subsidy. If we procure with a plan and regularly, we can procure with our own money and perhaps with loans for big ticket items.

Neither Burma nor India will invade us.

But they will frequently humiliate us at the border.

We will just have to suck it up until we are a middle income country.

I don’t want a military with shiny weapons. Because they then get ideas above their station and start meddling in politics. Which then harms the economy.

Military rule of Zia and Ershad held us back.

Country has only prospered because the military has been finally tamed.

Waiting is also good because I want us to buy Turkish systems. Which won’t be competitive until later this decade.

Which is perfect because we will be middle income by then.

 

[Bengal71]

Neither Burma nor India will invade us.

But they will frequently humiliate us at the border.

We will just have to suck it up until we are a middle income country.

I don’t want a military with shiny weapons. Because they then get ideas above their station and start meddling in politics. Which then harms the economy.

Military rule of Zia and Ershad held us back.

Country has only prospered because the military has been finally tamed.

Waiting is also good because I want us to buy Turkish systems. Which won’t be competitive until later this decade.

Which is perfect because we will be middle income by then.

Hey man, you are continuously confusing things.

Highly capable military with advanced weapons has nothing to do with military coups. For military coups they don't need fighter jets, submarine or SAMs, they do it with regular infantry, some trucks and tanks at best.

Upgrading the military will not increase the risk of coup, these are totally different things.

that would mean a $2 billion air force budget

Procurement is not included in the budget.

A total budget of 8 billion for all the military is very doable for BD. It's even doable for Pakistan which has a smaller GDP than ours. The problem is not there, the problem is the government's lack of policy or vision.

 

[mb444]

Neither Burma nor India will invade us.

But they will frequently humiliate us at the border.

We will just have to suck it up until we are a middle income country.

I don’t want a military with shiny weapons. Because they then get ideas above their station and start meddling in politics. Which then harms the economy.

Military rule of Zia and Ershad held us back.

Country has only prospered because the military has been finally tamed.

Waiting is also good because I want us to buy Turkish systems. Which won’t be competitive until later this decade.

Which is perfect because we will be middle income by then.

Military should be externally focused. It has only meddled in politics when politicians decisively failed.

Zia and Ershad laid the foundation for what we have today economically, do not belive the BAL propaganda.

What you are saying makes no sense. It has and will always take a single division of soldiers from dhaka cantonment to unseat the politicians.

They wont need EFTs or SAMs for that.... infact they won't really even need guns or need to fire a single bullet.

BAL has betrayed the country by degrading our military capabilities for their own political survival. That is the definition of treachery.

BA should clean house and wipe out BAL.

 

[Bengal71]

BAL has betrayed the country by degrading our military capabilities for their own political survival. That is the definition of treachery.

It's not BAL alone. It has been a feature of BD government since 1990's Khaleda government. Since 1990 no government was serious about defence, none of them procured anything that was required. BAL shares majority of the blame I must admit as they have been in power for 14 years.

BA should clean house and wipe out BAL.

BA itself is hand in glove with the BAL. If they were not, they had enough capacity to warn the government to allocate budget for procurement, or else. They did not do that because they are a beneficiary of the current system. They are involved in making money by going to UN peace keeping missions, many of their procurement are for equipment that are required for those missions, you will notice most of their procurement are MRAPs, BMPs, transport helicopters, transport planes, small arms, body armour and things of that nature. They are basically using state resources to buy equipment that can be used externally to earn money for themselves, became a mercenary army. They are engaged in various business endeavors, garments, property development etc and other things. When rot happens it happens everywhere. If the rest of the country is fine, BAL alone has no ability to be corrupt.

 

[UKBengali]

There is a third choice.

Political stability and economic growth, at the same time investing in defence. Developing countries must not care about defence at all to save money for development is not the right argument. You have to have at least minimum deterrence. They have been ruling for 14 years, yeat there is no significant procurement for the AF and Navy, it's just pathetic.

There should have been this 3rd choice but the two I mentioned are the only ones being offered to the people of BD.

You would seriously think that after the bitch slapping in 2017 that BD would not have 1-2 squadrons of Western 4+ gen fighters and at least a fully networked countrywide MRSAM system protecting all critical military and economic targets by now.

The fact of the matter is that Hasina and AL lack the basic dignity to invest in defence as they somehow how gotten themselves convinced that BD will not be attacked by either India and Myanmar in any serious way. They are probably right in this as they will act meekly to any provocation like what Myanmar has done this week. Even if they wanted to they cannot respond appropriately as the BD military lacks the capability.

When Myanmar last invaded Thai airspace many years ago they were "responded" with Thai Air Force F-16s shooting their plane down and the incident was never repeated till this year. This seems to have been accidental and the Barmans issued a full apology to the Thais. No such apology will be given to BD as that is not required for such a pathetic government as BD has now.

I have no idea why BAL has turned pussy as regards defence but they are the only game in town for BD. We can wish for them to take defence and national pride seriously but they are not inclined for one reason or another.

It's not BAL alone. It has been a feature of BD government since 1990's Khaleda government. Since 1990 no government was serious about defence, none of them procured anything that was required. BAL shares majority of the blame I must admit as they have been in power for 14 years.

Good post but not all correct.

BAL during 1996-2001 was serious about defence as they brought both the Bangabandhu frigate from Korea and ordered 16 Mig-29s with the option for 16 more.

 

[Bengal71]

There should have been this 3rd choice but the two I mentioned are the only ones being offered to the people of BD.

You would seriously think that after the bitch slapping in 2017 that BD would not have 1-2 squadrons of Western 4+ gen fighters and at least a fully networked countrywide MRSAM system protecting all critical military and economic targets by now.

The fact of the matter is that Hasina and AL lack the basic dignity to invest in defence as they somehow how gotten themselves convinced that BD will not be attacked by either India and Myanmar in any serious way. They are probably right in this as they will act meekly to any provocation like what Myanmar has done this week. Even if they wanted to they cannot respond appropriately as the BD military lacks the capability.

When Myanmar last invaded Thai airspace many years ago they were "responded" with Thai Air Forcce F-16s shooting their plane down and the incident was never repeated till this year. This seems to have been accidental and the Barmans issued a full apology to the Thais. No such apology will be given to BD as that is not required for such a pathetic government as BD has now.

I have no idea why BAL has turned pussy as regards defence but they are the only game in town for BD. We can wish for them to take defence and national pride seriously but they are not inclined for one reason or another.

I have previously in another post speculated why BAL or any other government doesn't have a credible defence policy. It's a combination of not understanding the importance of defence, the type of politics they are used to, corruption and female leadership. It could be external influence too but I am not sure about that.

In any case, BAL has the full responsibility for the current pathetic state. They have been ruling for 14 years now. 14 years is enough to acquire 10 squadrons of jets, AEW&C, 8 frigates, several modern subs, SAM systems and other relevant equipment. They did nothing.

There should have been this 3rd choice but the two I mentioned are the only ones being offered to the people of BD.

You would seriously think that after the bitch slapping in 2017 that BD would not have 1-2 squadrons of Western 4+ gen fighters and at least a fully networked countrywide MRSAM system protecting all critical military and economic targets by now.

The fact of the matter is that Hasina and AL lack the basic dignity to invest in defence as they somehow how gotten themselves convinced that BD will not be attacked by either India and Myanmar in any serious way. They are probably right in this as they will act meekly to any provocation like what Myanmar has done this week. Even if they wanted to they cannot respond appropriately as the BD military lacks the capability.

When Myanmar last invaded Thai airspace many years ago they were "responded" with Thai Air Force F-16s shooting their plane down and the incident was never repeated till this year. This seems to have been accidental and the Barmans issued a full apology to the Thais. No such apology will be given to BD as that is not required for such a pathetic government as BD has now.

I have no idea why BAL has turned pussy as regards defence but they are the only game in town for BD. We can wish for them to take defence and national pride seriously but they are not inclined for one reason or another.




Good post but not all correct.

BAL during 1996-2001 was serious about defence as they brought both the Bangabandhu frigate from Korea and ordered 16 Mig-29s with the option for 16 more.

Yes I know about the migs and frigate but it was an isolated example. Going by their general attitude towards defence, that one anomaly needs to be examined and questioned as to why it was so. If I follow my guts, it was probably to make some corruption money.

 

[REhorror]

I hope both sides remain calm and don't engage in dickwaving.
SEA cannot afford a war right now.

 

[MH.Yang]

Alright if that's correct. But if we are to maintain a military half the size of Pk, it suits our needs and don't need subsidy. If we procure with a plan and regularly, we can procure with our own money and perhaps with loans for big ticket items.

Bangladesh has no real enemies, and there is no need to invest too much money in national defense. This money can be used to build more infrastructure.

 

[Bengal71]

Bangladesh has no real enemies, and there is no need to invest too much money in national defense. This money can be used to build more infrastructure.

I agree but there is hybrid warfare nowadays. A credible defence ensures the hybrid wars can't be waged. Besides, it's not a good idea to totally neglect defence.

A wise king never seeks out war, but must always be ready for it​