Echo_419
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Why don't you inform authorities,since their are illegal BDs involved there might some sort if action
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UP koi toh nayi sarkar hi bachaa sakti hai
My loudspeaker versus your loudspeaker
- Thread starter Iggy
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Why don't you inform authorities,since their are illegal BDs involved there might some sort if action
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UP koi toh nayi sarkar hi bachaa sakti hai
xTra
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Atleat Behenji was better then this Mulla Mulayam Yadav.
Iggy
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Mate, I am not sure it was biased but here is an important point:
Eyewitness accounts of Muslims, corroborated by police officials, suggest that the majority among the 2,500-strong Hindu mob that gathered at the temple were outsiders. Said a Muslim man in Saharanpur who identified himself as Nazir, “We have never had such problems in the past. If it (the loudspeaker) was loud, we would request that the volume be turned down, and the pujari would oblige. But this Ramzan, it was impossible to conduct our prayers.
acid rain
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lol, congressi corporator and congressi MLA make sure they are well protected.. All kinds of illegal activities happen in this ghetto but they get away with everything in the heart of bangalore.
Iggy
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I do agree with @jbond197 here.. If these people cannot respect each other's beliefs and loud speaker become the trigger for communal clashes, then its better to ban it all together!!
@harpoon mate, I am not sure whether multinational and IT jobs increased the tolerance in us because of the terrorists and communal parties are well educated and have decent jobs. Most of the incidents and riot happening here was hushed up by police so that it would not spread like wild fire.. I know an incident happened near Cochin which went out of control but police did a remarkable job silencing the media and controlling the news.
@harpoon mate, I am not sure whether multinational and IT jobs increased the tolerance in us because of the terrorists and communal parties are well educated and have decent jobs. Most of the incidents and riot happening here was hushed up by police so that it would not spread like wild fire.. I know an incident happened near Cochin which went out of control but police did a remarkable job silencing the media and controlling the news.
nair
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Issues like this will always pop up, especially in a country like india where you have every religion lives close by..... It all depends how these issues are dealt with by locals.
I have come across several such issues related to loud speaker, Especially when i was associated with the body of local temple.... and my place is dominated by muslim population. They also use loud speaker for their baaangu.. There are 2 mosques with in 300 mts of this temple.....But normally these irritants are dealt on local level, and whenever such issues are came up, It always ended in both the parties using their respective loudspeakers, and with out disturbing each other....Over a period of time there is an understanding between both communities and both respect each other's feelings....
I have come across several such issues related to loud speaker, Especially when i was associated with the body of local temple.... and my place is dominated by muslim population. They also use loud speaker for their baaangu.. There are 2 mosques with in 300 mts of this temple.....But normally these irritants are dealt on local level, and whenever such issues are came up, It always ended in both the parties using their respective loudspeakers, and with out disturbing each other....Over a period of time there is an understanding between both communities and both respect each other's feelings....
Iggy
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Express investigation part-III: Dalit-Muslim divide deepens, goes rural..
On Monday morning, a minor argument over widening a village road resulted in a violent clash between Muslims and Dalits in Katauli Kala in the Deogaon police station area of Azamgarh district. SP (City), Vinod Kumar, said there was no history of tension between the two communities in that area.
However, according to diary entry at Rani Ki Sarai police station in Sonvar village of the same district, on July 4, an argument between a Muslim family and a Dalit family over the boundaries of their fields resulted in a communal clash in which eight people were injured.
Data from police stations across Uttar Pradesh scrutinised by The Indian Express show that out of 605 communal incidents in the state in the 10 weeks beginning with the Lok Sabha election results of May 16, 68 — or every ninth incident — involved Muslims and Dalits.
Forty-eight of these 68 incidents — over 70 per cent — took place in and around 12 assembly constituencies where byelections are due.
Part 1 of this Investigation, published on August 5, showed that about 400 of the 605 communal incidents between May 16 and July 25 occurred in or around assembly constituencies whose representatives have now become MPs, necessitating bypolls by mid-November.
Part 2, published on August 6, showed how groups and political parties have transformed loudpeakers at places of worship into powerful instruments of communal polarisation, leading to clashes between Hindus and Muslims. In as many as 120 of the 600-odd communal incidents, police records of which were analysed by The Indian Express, the trigger for violence was found to lie in a clash involving the use of loudspeakers in masjids and temples.
The clashes between Muslims and Dalits signal a fracture in the BSP’s once-potent social engineering experiment. One fallout of the weakening of the BSP’s Dalit-Muslim coalition has been that the party’s mixed leadership in these areas has found it difficult to take sides — and individual leaders have often rushed to align with their respective religious groups, alienating members of the other group.
Tensions between Dalits and Muslims began, in several cases, after a relationship between, or elopement of, couples from the two communities. In many of these cases, local BJP units and leaders emerged as the “protector” of Dalits, police records show.
According to a senior police officer who was involved in tackling the fallout of the riot, Dalit rioters were involved in around 70 per cent of cases of destruction of property. In Kalasi Lane on the outskirts of Saharanpur town, an area that is surrounded by Muslim and Dalit neighbourhoods, only three shops in a shopping complex were set on fire — all belonging to Muslim tailors. All the suspects that police have in the case are Dalits.
Of all the non-Muslims who were arrested for the violence in Saharanpur, only 2 per cent were Sikhs — most of the rest were Dalit Hindus.
The second significant — and new — aspect of the ongoing phase of communal tensions in UP is the intensity and spread of the violence in areas that are completely or predominantly rural. Rumour has played a role in polarisation, alongwith instruments of propaganda and posturing such as loudspeakers.
In several cases, communal tensions have polarised communities that have had no history of animosity, and have lived in harmony for decades.
In Muzaffarnagar’s Kheti Viran, 80-year-old Ijhar Hussain, the oldest person in the village, described how the family had decided to leave after Partition, but had been persuaded by Hindu neighbours to return from the railway station. Years later, Hussain’s uncle, Miyan Majahir Hussain, then the biggest landlord in the village, donated the piece of land on which a Ravidas mandir stands today.
Kheti Viran is run as a single administrative unit along with its twin Badarpur. Together, the two villages are home to 4,500 families, Hindu and Muslim in the ratio of 60:40. A majority of Hindus are Dalits.
On July 11, around 6.30 pm, village elders in Kheti Viran reprimanded a Muslim neighbour for tying his buffaloes next to the gate of the Ravidas mandir. Within a half hour, a 600-strong mob had gathered at the temple. Most in the crowd were Dalits from Badarpur, who had heard that Muslims had forcibly removed the temple’s loudspeaker.
“Someone had spread a rumour in Badarpur that Muslims had damaged the temple’s loudspeaker,” pradhan Jag Sooran Singh said. Local BSP leaders — facing a statewide erosion in their party’s Dalit-Muslim base — tried to get involved, as did the local BJP unit. But Kheti Viran pushed back.
Two weeks after the July 11 incident, villagers insisted there was no divide. They recounted an incident after last year’s riots in Muzaffarnagar, when a tractor was burnt not far from the village, and both communities had taken it in turns to patrol the perimeter of Kheti.
And yet, several villagers told The Indian Express that they were disturbed that the old bhaichaara had been replaced by tanaav, and that so many people had responded to the rumour about the loudspeaker. On August 6, in Part 2 of this Investigation, The Indian Express had reported how a provocative WhatsApp message, purportedly sent by a local VHP leader in Saharanpur, had triggered a near riot, with 2,500 Hindus willing to confront Muslims in the street.
A 40-minute drive from Kheti Viran, towards the east, is Kheti Sarai village. There, a few metres away from the compound in which the local Ravidas mandir and Shiv mandir stand, a new madrasa has come up. Students come from as far away as Assam.
On June 18, two days after a fullscale riot took place in Kant, Moradabad, 25-odd students of the madrasa, all in the age group of 12-18 years, allegedly forced their way into the Ravidas mandir and damaged the loudspeaker.
According to the Dalits, who make up 40 per cent of the village, the local BSP MLA, Maulana Jameel, has been visiting the madrasa frequently and patronizing the Muslims of the area. Jameel had been arrested for allegedly inciting riots in Muzaffarnagar last year.
According to Manavendra Singh, the former pradhan of Kheti Sarai who played a role in cooling tensions, the BJP’s Lok Sabha member from Bijnor, Bharatendra Singh, had wanted to visit the village to address a gathering. But Manavendra Singh had refused to cooperate.
Manavendra Singh said he was associated with the BJP himself, but “I don’t want any issue in this village. We are living in really bad days.”
He added, “A lot of people from Muzaffarnagar town wanted to visit the village to show solidarity with the Hindus. I ensured with the help of the police that nobody actually came here.”
Express investigation part-III: Dalit-Muslim divide deepens, goes rural | The Indian Express
On Monday morning, a minor argument over widening a village road resulted in a violent clash between Muslims and Dalits in Katauli Kala in the Deogaon police station area of Azamgarh district. SP (City), Vinod Kumar, said there was no history of tension between the two communities in that area.
However, according to diary entry at Rani Ki Sarai police station in Sonvar village of the same district, on July 4, an argument between a Muslim family and a Dalit family over the boundaries of their fields resulted in a communal clash in which eight people were injured.
Data from police stations across Uttar Pradesh scrutinised by The Indian Express show that out of 605 communal incidents in the state in the 10 weeks beginning with the Lok Sabha election results of May 16, 68 — or every ninth incident — involved Muslims and Dalits.
Forty-eight of these 68 incidents — over 70 per cent — took place in and around 12 assembly constituencies where byelections are due.
Part 1 of this Investigation, published on August 5, showed that about 400 of the 605 communal incidents between May 16 and July 25 occurred in or around assembly constituencies whose representatives have now become MPs, necessitating bypolls by mid-November.
Part 2, published on August 6, showed how groups and political parties have transformed loudpeakers at places of worship into powerful instruments of communal polarisation, leading to clashes between Hindus and Muslims. In as many as 120 of the 600-odd communal incidents, police records of which were analysed by The Indian Express, the trigger for violence was found to lie in a clash involving the use of loudspeakers in masjids and temples.
The clashes between Muslims and Dalits signal a fracture in the BSP’s once-potent social engineering experiment. One fallout of the weakening of the BSP’s Dalit-Muslim coalition has been that the party’s mixed leadership in these areas has found it difficult to take sides — and individual leaders have often rushed to align with their respective religious groups, alienating members of the other group.
Tensions between Dalits and Muslims began, in several cases, after a relationship between, or elopement of, couples from the two communities. In many of these cases, local BJP units and leaders emerged as the “protector” of Dalits, police records show.
- Village Gaineridan, Police Station Jahanabad, Pilibhit; May 20: A Muslim family took away by force their girl, who had married a Jatav boy. Local BJP leaders demanded security for the Hindu family and the return of the girl, leading to tensions.
- Village Lisadi, Police Station Lisadi Gate, Meerut; May 30: The local BJP leadership got involved after a Jatav girl eloped with a Muslim boy.
- Village Ashapur, Police Station Kotwali, Faizabad; June 2: A game of cricket between Muslim and Rawat boys ended in a fight, in which BJP workers got involved. A case has been registered.
- Village Neta Nagar, Police Station Karari, Kaushambi; June 6: Local BJP leaders got involved after an incident of stonethrowing between Pasi and Muslim groups. Hindus complained to police, and an FIR was registered against the Muslims.
- Village Kasba, Police Station Thana Bhavan, Shamli; July 14: BJP leaders led protests after a Khatik girl eloped with a Muslim boy.
- Mohalla Naurangabad East, Police Station Sikanderarao, Hathras; July 15: BJP leaders led a protest roadblock after a Jatav girl committed suicide, allegedly after having been raped by a Muslim man.
- Mohalla Malkand, Police Station Bilgram, Hardoi; July 17: An object that looked like a Shiv linga was found while digging near a kabaristan, following which Hindus put up a flag at the spot and began worship. Police intervened after Muslims protested; the local BJP leadership was present.
According to a senior police officer who was involved in tackling the fallout of the riot, Dalit rioters were involved in around 70 per cent of cases of destruction of property. In Kalasi Lane on the outskirts of Saharanpur town, an area that is surrounded by Muslim and Dalit neighbourhoods, only three shops in a shopping complex were set on fire — all belonging to Muslim tailors. All the suspects that police have in the case are Dalits.
Of all the non-Muslims who were arrested for the violence in Saharanpur, only 2 per cent were Sikhs — most of the rest were Dalit Hindus.
The second significant — and new — aspect of the ongoing phase of communal tensions in UP is the intensity and spread of the violence in areas that are completely or predominantly rural. Rumour has played a role in polarisation, alongwith instruments of propaganda and posturing such as loudspeakers.
In several cases, communal tensions have polarised communities that have had no history of animosity, and have lived in harmony for decades.
In Muzaffarnagar’s Kheti Viran, 80-year-old Ijhar Hussain, the oldest person in the village, described how the family had decided to leave after Partition, but had been persuaded by Hindu neighbours to return from the railway station. Years later, Hussain’s uncle, Miyan Majahir Hussain, then the biggest landlord in the village, donated the piece of land on which a Ravidas mandir stands today.
Kheti Viran is run as a single administrative unit along with its twin Badarpur. Together, the two villages are home to 4,500 families, Hindu and Muslim in the ratio of 60:40. A majority of Hindus are Dalits.
On July 11, around 6.30 pm, village elders in Kheti Viran reprimanded a Muslim neighbour for tying his buffaloes next to the gate of the Ravidas mandir. Within a half hour, a 600-strong mob had gathered at the temple. Most in the crowd were Dalits from Badarpur, who had heard that Muslims had forcibly removed the temple’s loudspeaker.
“Someone had spread a rumour in Badarpur that Muslims had damaged the temple’s loudspeaker,” pradhan Jag Sooran Singh said. Local BSP leaders — facing a statewide erosion in their party’s Dalit-Muslim base — tried to get involved, as did the local BJP unit. But Kheti Viran pushed back.
Two weeks after the July 11 incident, villagers insisted there was no divide. They recounted an incident after last year’s riots in Muzaffarnagar, when a tractor was burnt not far from the village, and both communities had taken it in turns to patrol the perimeter of Kheti.
And yet, several villagers told The Indian Express that they were disturbed that the old bhaichaara had been replaced by tanaav, and that so many people had responded to the rumour about the loudspeaker. On August 6, in Part 2 of this Investigation, The Indian Express had reported how a provocative WhatsApp message, purportedly sent by a local VHP leader in Saharanpur, had triggered a near riot, with 2,500 Hindus willing to confront Muslims in the street.
A 40-minute drive from Kheti Viran, towards the east, is Kheti Sarai village. There, a few metres away from the compound in which the local Ravidas mandir and Shiv mandir stand, a new madrasa has come up. Students come from as far away as Assam.
On June 18, two days after a fullscale riot took place in Kant, Moradabad, 25-odd students of the madrasa, all in the age group of 12-18 years, allegedly forced their way into the Ravidas mandir and damaged the loudspeaker.
According to the Dalits, who make up 40 per cent of the village, the local BSP MLA, Maulana Jameel, has been visiting the madrasa frequently and patronizing the Muslims of the area. Jameel had been arrested for allegedly inciting riots in Muzaffarnagar last year.
According to Manavendra Singh, the former pradhan of Kheti Sarai who played a role in cooling tensions, the BJP’s Lok Sabha member from Bijnor, Bharatendra Singh, had wanted to visit the village to address a gathering. But Manavendra Singh had refused to cooperate.
Manavendra Singh said he was associated with the BJP himself, but “I don’t want any issue in this village. We are living in really bad days.”
He added, “A lot of people from Muzaffarnagar town wanted to visit the village to show solidarity with the Hindus. I ensured with the help of the police that nobody actually came here.”
Express investigation part-III: Dalit-Muslim divide deepens, goes rural | The Indian Express
But that's a very important piece of information to omit from a so called investigative piece don't you think? The whole pretext of this article was that Hindus started using loudspeaker disturbing the Ramzan rituals (whatever they are). If it was
just some random month or day then I would agree that yes reciting Shiv Kathas over megaphone was wrong and was being done intentionally, but it wasn't just any random day or month, it was during Sawan( holy month for Hindus), and July 21st was a Monday( day of Shiv Ji), eventually leading to the show down on the July 23rd.
Why should Ramzan be given preference over Sawan?
. Mind you Hindus don't go and pull down loudspeakers from the Mosques when they start doing their calls for Azaans at ungoldy hours. Hindus didn't object to the Azaan blaring on the megaphone, it goes on 365 days be it any Holi, Deepawali or Dusshehra! So the question is why can't Muslims do the same?C'mon you don't really expect the eye witness accounts of the opposite party to be unbiased do you? Claiming that they were outsiders aligns well with the whole BJP is trying to vitiate the environment in UP and RSS is bringing cadres to incite religious riots. And of course the police will agree happily, cause claim of outsiders being involved would mean less work for them.
The ground situation in western UP is pretty bad, there is scare mongering yes, rumour mill is working over time yes, but there is no denying that there is genuine rift and mistrust between local Hindus and Muslim communities, the blame for which solely lies on deobandi madrassas and their "missionary activities". They are the ones who have created this situation in Western UP. That and increasing Muslim population which makes them think that only they should be allowed to practice their religion freely.
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