Muslim reformists

[blain2]

My point is...Muslims in the Middle East aren't even trying. If anything....they've gotten worse in recent years.

Well good and your rants are not helping either...so let the poor Muslims be...they are not looking for your approval or your advice. There is absolutely no need for a "Islamic reformation". This idea is alien to Islam and Muslims and it will remain so. So if you were expecting otherwise, sorry!

 

[blain2]

Hey you cant change the words of god. ...lol

That is right! There is nothing ambigious about it at least in my mind.

 

[blain2]

Islam cannot be reformed. Its as reformed as it comes. Ask the many thousands of people in the west who are embracing it every day after living vast majority of their lives in "reformed" religion/s.

Islam attracts people (not that I expect the detractors of it to understand that point) because of the fact that it does not compromise on its tenets and rulings. There is flexibility in these rulings and that is enough. Muslims will not go through an exercise of relegating their religion to the background just because others have gone through the same exercise.

 

[blain2]

Nobody is rejecting the unknown force, just that we dont agree your fundo story is true or some others. God is a between a person and the unkown. Its quite personal. That he doesnt write and give it in a book

The "book" is a judeo-christian-Muslim thing...you wont get it

 

[Marathaman]

Islam cannot be reformed. Its as reformed as it comes. Ask the many thousands of people in the west who are embracing it every day after living vast majority of their lives in "reformed" religion/s.

Islam attracts people (not that I expect the detractors of it to understand that point) because of the fact that it does not compromise on its tenets and rulings. There is flexibility in these rulings and that is enough. Muslims will not go through an exercise of relegating their religion to the background just because others have gone through the same exercise.

Exactly my point. Islam cannot be reformed, because it is perfect by nature.

Oh I completely understand why people are attracted to Islam. It cannot be changed therfore its the true word of god. Very nice

As for westerners embracing Islam, they are free people. It would be stupid to think that some of them won't embrace islam !!

 

[Marathaman]

Lol he was referring a war and not lesser a topic or cause. Moreover you must remember his background as a Neocon with Evangelist faith.

Yeah...Bush is an idiot. We know that. But he isn't fighting a christian holy war. Don't be silly.

Christianity lost the its middle east followers to the Islamic faith from
Morocco to Turkey and Lebenon to Yemen and Somalia to Ethopia and throughout the world.
You can't blame the under development of present day muslims to Islam. When muslims followed the Quran and Sunnah they were the rulers of world. They provided the base of present day Science for which west is indebted for them. If there had been a Noble Prize between the period of 700 AD to 1400 AD most would have gone to the muslim scientist and researchers.

Exactly. If there was a nobel prize in the middle ages, a muslim would have won it.
The world has moved on buddy. You can't win a nobel prize today with the ideology of 700 AD.

First solve the menace of caste system in your own country and give excess to lower caste Hindus to Upper caste Hindu temples, hotels and houses in rural ares throughout the country incl your own state Maharashtra. Try to be human while behaving with the Dalits etc.

What do you think we're doing?

Muslims questioning their religion!!!!!!!!!
Then there must be a large desertion from Islam. Where is it happening. Yes its happening but in West and US where Islam is the fastest growing religion despite all the maligning propaganda.

Exactly. The biggest problem with Islam. Infallibility.
Either you believe the whole thing, or don't believe it at all.
Sad.

As far as fastest growing religion goes....that can be easily disproven.(And it has been)

Don't forget Islam made you and your culture civilised, muslims united India in its present form. Muslim kings were the first to bring the lower caste up, incl. the Tughlaq dynasty.

Civilized? I don't think so.
United India in its present form? Don't dream.
Lower caste up? Don't make Tughlaq a saint. We all know how what a cruel and ruthless ruler he was. Not to mention stupid.

 

[Samudra]

Don't forget Islam made you and your culture civilised, muslims united India in its present form.

How much you dislike your old culture and civilization to support your newly adopted foreign religion! Have a little respect for your Hindu/Buddhist ancestors.

Isn't Pakistan proud of its heritage, the Harappa and Mohenjadaro stuff ?? Why have it on your currency notes then eh ??

 

[Chrome9]

If it ain't broke then theres no need to fix it! that's my only comment on this topic

 

[Adux]

If it ain't broke then theres no need to fix it! that's my only comment on this topic

I dont know about Islam, and have great respect for the religion of all ways and I do have differences with some aspects of all the religions that i know off in some details. So cant say wether Islam is broke or not.

But Muslims of today are more than just broken, finding the middle ground between people of other faith and culture is not an option for them, Its just their way of the highway. Its a very sad and depressing trend.

 

[Chrome9]

But Muslims of today are more than just broken,

Mate can't argue with that! muslims are indeed broken but I can't for the life of me attribute this to Islam.

 

[Marathaman]

Mate can't argue with that! muslims are indeed broken but I can't for the life of me attribute this to Islam.

So what is it then, that is responsible for the current state of muslims.

 

[Wounded Healer]

So what is it then, that is responsible for the current state of muslims.

2 things:
Lack of understanding of our own religion,
Lack of education.

 

[Marathaman]

2 things:
Lack of understanding of our own religion,
Lack of education.

My argument against that, is that the mullahs(who are supposed to be the experts) themselves are teaching this radical brand of Islam.
Maybe it should be misunderstanding of Islam, or perhaps a misinterpretation of the quran?

Lack of education....definitely. (If by education you mean your normal secular school education).

 

[Samudra]

There was a thread I opened. It argued that atleast some of the problems Muslims face today have their roots in theology. Ofcourse, no Muslim will ever acknowledge something like that.

The fault lines are visible only from the outside. From the inside everything was inspired by the divine and therefore everything has a justification. There is no fault, we'll continue to live like this and get even deeper into troubles of our own making!

The challenge right now is to get some Muslims to think from 'outside' whilst remaining 'inside'. In my opinion, when he made laws the prophet took all these factors into account and tried his best to keep his doctrine, religion intact.

From outside we only hope these measures of Mohammed fail in due course of time. If they do not, then in my opinion the world is in for more trouble and it is the Muslims who'll have the hardest time.

When I mention 'outside' I just mean being beyond blind faith, being able and willing to question the ever prevalent belief and see through the tricks played on us by those who made religion. (I've only mentioned 'religion' here instead of 'Islam' because all religions are just tricks played on men, in my opinion)

In my observation here people inside are unable to comprehend and come to terms with the thoughts of those outside. Faith first. Once a mind goes 'inside' it never truly leaves. It can never be made to see what those outside are seeing.

I don't know if these statements can't be taken as against Islam or some sentiments of Muslims. I've tried to sugarcoat words as much as one could.

Tanveer Ahmed is a good example of guy who got outside. An exception!

 

[Cheetah786]

The fact that he converted to Buddhism is completely irrelevant. Reformers are supposed to oppose their religion as a rule. He very well could have turned atheist and still reformed Hinduism.

You haven't managed to dig up dirt on any other reform movements i've mentioned apart from these 2.

Of course reform has a long way to go. Hell...even Christian fundamentalism was alive and well till the 20 century.

Hinduism has a history of reform which continues today.

My point is...Muslims in the Middle East aren't even trying. If anything....they've gotten worse in recent years.

Am i to believe you are not familiar with bush administration(christen fundos beyond any imagination).if u wanna see Christian fundo visit all of American southern states.
try Philippines.just because Jewish Media doesn't report it.doesn't mean they are not there.

Muslims in middle east are being controlled by CIA puppets need i say more.Islam is a complete religion to practice from birth to death.
But some twisted individuals have changed the meanings to suit there needs and Muslims have been warned about that in quran.just like CIA created ''NATION OF ISLAM''


iam not going to sit here and teach you about Islam.my point is simple if you can change your holy book or religion as the times changes.that no longer becomes a religion thats called Fashion (whats in and whats out).you can find a lot of that on Paris run ways.

if Hinduism is going through reforms .so you are basically admitting it was wrong from day one(no and i mean absolutely no disrespect intended here).


And about your comment here about the some one converting to different religion basically is confirming that he or she no longer believe in there birth religion and now that are older and understand things have chosen a different path.that person can no longer be called a reformer.you cannot reform some thing you no longer believe your self.

its like in the west myth is been created That Jews are the chosen one.And christens must do all they can to protect them.i simply ask the person who told me that if u believe they are why are you still christen he couldn't answer that.That reform was put in bible