Muslim immigrants: A cold shoulder for a bad reputation

[T-Faz]

What worries me is the increase of migration in near future. I mean hopefully its only 26,000 migrants and thats all. Hopefully the figures won't be kept on increasing forever and this batch of 26,000 does not rise up in numbers in the near future!

That is the real question, we all know that the situation is slowly going to get worse and the influx of immigrants from the effected countries is only going to increase. With the economic recession and rising resentment of migrants, the situation can become worse. Especially when anti immigration/Islam parties use this to stir up public sentiment.

Either the Muslims countries improve their situation drastically or we will see large amounts of people trying to escape, lets see what happens but it sure does not look good.

 

[silko]

very good article

I guess Italy must consult with Scandinavian countries for help. They have extremely low unemployment rate and abundance of money to spend on its people. Ask help from Norway, Sweden and Finland and who knows if they would be willing to absorb couple of thousands of people. They can, they have low population but vast land and resources to accommodate these immigrants. Can't say the same about Denmark since the situation in Denmark is not same as other Scandinavian countries.

Any European country is not in position to take more illegal immigrants, they are simply effed up after the recession but the situation in Scandinavia is better than its neighbors

i don't think you know how we that is from two countries is getting treated in scandinavia, especially in norway.

i struggle with finding job and earn some money, how is 5000 people supposed to find it. there is a lot you need to know about norway before saying they will allow 5000 immigrants suddenly in to the country, trust me i know.

 

[Hyde]

i don't think you know how we that is from two countries is getting treated in scandinavia, especially in norway.

i struggle with finding job and earn some money, how is 5000 people supposed to find it. there is a lot you need to know about norway before saying they will allow 5000 immigrants suddenly in to the country, trust me i know.

I lived in Norway for almost an year. Got a job in the first week of my stay and left the job after planning to return back to my home country (UK)

There was no hustle and bustle involved in my stay and everything seemed pretty nice. Yes it could also be due to the reason I had some friends in Norway who assisted me in each and every step and were always there to support me.

Secondly when you are supported at government level, the scenario is different. When you are finding a job individually... you ave to follow the procedure

 

[DelhiDareDevil]

Muslims are to high in numbers in most country to be bullied over.

 

[A1Kaid]

Why is it the duty of Europe to "accommodate" these peasants? I personally believe in selective immigration. Applicants should prove they are educated and have a good record in their home country. I think Europe should deport the immigrants perpetrating crimes back to their country of origin.

 

[Kambojaric]

very good article

I guess Italy must consult with Scandinavian countries for help. They have extremely low unemployment rate and abundance of money to spend on its people. Ask help from Norway, Sweden and Finland and who knows if they would be willing to absorb couple of thousands of people. They can, they have low population but vast land and resources to accommodate these immigrants. Can't say the same about Denmark since the situation in Denmark is not same as other Scandinavian countries.

Any European country is not in position to take more illegal immigrants, they are simply effed up after the recession but the situation in Scandinavia is better than its neighbors

I can give you the general perception of swedes to more immigrants. NO. This can be shown by the swift rise of Sverigedemokraterna, a party full of Neo Nazis which will soon become the third largest party in the country. Denmark is doing its utmost to prevent/kick out immigrants. Not too sure how things are in Norway and Finland but i assume they are pretty similar

 

[Cloakedvessel]

Why is it the duty of Europe to "accommodate" these peasants? I personally believe in selective immigration. Applicants should prove they are educated and have a good record in their home country. I think Europe should deport the immigrants perpetrating crimes back to their country of origin.

The problem with most illegals is that they burn their pasport and keep their mouth closed about where they're from, so the state has no clue where to send them back. They have to let them go, so they wander the streets and are involved in criminal activities.
Just last week in Holland an illegal beat a woman to death, killed a cop and and injured two more people:

Paperboy part of gunman’s battle
To round up the week, yet another gunman drama is rocking the Netherlands and claiming front page coverage and screaming headlines in the Dutch papers.

Wednesday’s shooting incident in which a 29-year-old woman and a 48-year-old police officer were killed, took place in the northern village of Baflo. The 25-year old perpetrator is an asylum-seeker whose application for residency was rejected in 2010. He had a relationship with the woman who was shot.

Both de Volkskrant and De Telegraaf tell the tale through the eyes of two key witnesses, one of whom is a local paperboy. De Telegraaf describes how the murderer tried to kidnap the 15-year-old teenager, “who stood face to face with gunman”, after the police officer had been killed with his own weapon.

“He grabbed me by the shoulder just as I came around the corner… He pointed his gun at me and told me to come with him. But I managed to break free.” Quite an experience for a boy who had taken over the paper rounds from his brother that evening, writes de Volkskrant.

English | Radio Netherlands Worldwide

 

[Cloakedvessel]

I can give you the general perception of swedes to more immigrants. NO. This can be shown by the swift rise of Sverigedemokraterna, a party full of Neo Nazis which will soon become the third largest party in the country. Denmark is doing its utmost to prevent/kick out immigrants. Not too sure how things are in Norway and Finland but i assume they are pretty similar

Pretty much the same sentiments here in Holland. Politician say: they just liberated their country, we don't want economic refugees.

Immigration and Asylum Minister Gerd Leers has instructed the police to look out for illegal immigrants from Tunisia. If necessary, the cost of their repatriation will be borne by Dutch authorities themselves, a spokesperson for the minister said.

The minister has been angered by a decision by Italy to grant 20,000 people who recently fled Tunisia’s civil war temporary visas that give them access to the European Union’s Schengen area. Most of them, the minister claims, are economic migrants who are likely to stay in Europe as illegal aliens. They should, Mr Leers insists, be sent back to Italy and from there be expelled to Tunisia.

Police have been told to check whether Tunisians comply with the three requirements necessary to remain in the Schengen zone. Legal immigrants need to have the required documents, have sufficient means of existence and should pose no threat to public order.

However, as there are no border controls between Schengen countries and travel between them is unrestricted, police are only allowed to check migrants in a limited number of circumstances, such as labour inspections and crimes.

Minister Leers has also proposed measures to reinstate border checks. The checks were suspended after the Council of State, the country’s highest legal body, had disputed whether border police had the legal authority to arrest illegal immigrants.

In addition, Mr Leers has asked The European Commission to instruct Italy to keep the fingerprints of all Tunisians migrants for an indefinite period. Normally personal details stored in the European central database Eurodac are deleted after a certain period.

(cl)

© Radio Netherlands Worldwide

 

[Thorough Pro]

Why not Arab countries shelter them? They have money and sparsely populated as well.

why should Arab countries bear this burden, this mess was started by Us, France, and other european countries, they should take the responsibility.

 

[Developereo]

There are a number of factors at play here and the fault lies with the immigrants as well as their hosts. A number of Muslims have failed to utilize all the resources available to them in these countries, be it education, career related or of interpersonal kind. Take for example the north Africans in France, they cause a lot of problems for the country and they themselves give others reasons to despise them.

The situation of Africans in France is quite complicated. Western research studies in Britain and France have shown that identical resumes with Muslim v/s non-Muslim names get vastly different response from employers. There is massive societal discrimination in some countries and, if your chances of getting a job are not much better whether you go to school or not, it is not surprising that many African/Muslim migrants skip school and end up in a life of crime.

Having said that, it is also true that much of the blame lies with immigrant communities themselves. They tend to be utterly useless in terms of social and community support. Their leaders are typically bearded anachronisms from the old country who are woefully unqualified to give any advice relevant to the country where they live. Other than issuing pointless fatwas about the length of the beard and the length of a woman's sleeve, they are worthless to provide any guidance. One would hope that the Islamic communities in the West would have the common sense to appoint leaders and counselors who are locally educated, if not born, and who can help immigrants find a balance between Islam and local culture. Since most Muslim communities have failed to act proactively in this, it is encouraging that Western governments may start mandating these requirements for community leaders.

 

[Gold1010]

The situation of Africans in France is quite complicated. Western research studies in Britain and France have shown that identical resumes with Muslim v/s non-Muslim names get vastly different response from employers. There is massive societal discrimination in some countries and, if your chances of getting a job are not much better whether you go to school or not, it is not surprising that many African/Muslim migrants skip school and end up in a life of crime.

Having said that, it is also true that much of the blame lies with immigrant communities themselves. They tend to be utterly useless in terms of social and community support. Their leaders are typically bearded anachronisms from the old country who are woefully unqualified to give any advice relevant to the country where they live. Other than issuing pointless fatwas about the length of the beard and the length of a woman's sleeve, they are worthless to provide any guidance. One would hope that the Islamic communities in the West would have the common sense to appoint leaders and counselors who are locally educated, if not born, and who can help immigrants find a balance between Islam and local culture. Since most Muslim communities have failed to act proactively in this, it is encouraging that Western governments may start mandating these requirements for community leaders.

Although i agree with your 2nd half of your post , like you said it is quite complicated muslims have a very different culture/beliefs to western countrys which causes problems in the country and then to top it off there is the radical side of islam(which seems to be more prevalent then other religions in the modern world possibly because the muslim world is still developing) which poses a threat to the country and people in the country.

You have to try and put yourself in western shoes would pakistan prefer a influx of muslims or indian hindus?

Discrimination probably but you have to draw a line and alot of muslims have put themselves on that line.

The funny thing is that when people of different cultures meet/become freinds we get along.

 

[jayron]

why should Arab countries bear this burden, this mess was started by Us, France, and other european countries, they should take the responsibility.

What did US do in Tunisia? Even before this crisis, Europe has given more asylum to North African muslims.

 

[Developereo]

Although i agree with your 2nd half of your post , like you said it is quite complicated muslims have a very different culture/beliefs to western countrys which causes problems in the country and then to top it off there is the radical side of islam(which seems to be more prevalent then other religions in the modern world possibly because the muslim world is still developing) which poses a threat to the country and people in the country.

The issue of integration is a tricky one. When I spoke of 'integration', I wasn't talking about silly things like dress codes. It was more about gender equality, individual freedoms and respect for local traditions. I mention dress only because it is invariably brought up by those who complain about this issue.

This obsession with dress is just a canard by xenophobes to score cheap points. Look at how Amish Christians and Hassidic Jews live and dress. Nobody raises any issues about them, so why Muslims? As I explained in the burqa thread, the French ban is completely indefensible. It is not about secularism or security. It is just a tantrum because the French don't like the look of the burqa, yet they don't mind when Europeans wear the surgical face mask.

As for extremism, that is a separate discussion. Briefly, the chief cause of Muslim extremism is pent up rage at the impotence of Muslim governments and communities in the face of persecution of Muslims. When two Jewish guys were beaten in Paris, the President of France personally apologized on national TV. When Indian students were beaten in Melbourne, the Australian Prime Minister personally went to India to apologize. Yet when Muslims are killed, there is no apology, no regret, no nothing. Worse still, they are dismissed as probable criminals or terrorists.

You have to try and put yourself in western shoes would pakistan prefer a influx of muslims or indian hindus?

When I last lived in Pakistan we had street processions with floats during Hindu festivals, and Christmas mass on national TV.

 

[T-Faz]

The situation of Africans in France is quite complicated. Western research studies in Britain and France have shown that identical resumes with Muslim v/s non-Muslim names get vastly different response from employers. There is massive societal discrimination in some countries and, if your chances of getting a job are not much better whether you go to school or not, it is not surprising that many African/Muslim migrants skip school and end up in a life of crime.

There is discrimination, no doubt about that but its often exaggerated a lot in order to cover the failures of some migrant communities. Employers cannot overlook a highly qualified and intelligent applicant, even with existing biases, an employed would stick with someone who can achieve the best results for their company.

What the western countries offer is free quality education and later government supported higher education. A number of Muslims do not subscribe to the mentality that a quality education can be helpful for their future and instead they get involved in harmful activities. Societal discrimination has been built up by the actions of migrant communities who have failed to utilize all that was available to them and they continue to hold on to inane traditions, look at the Mirpuri's in UK as an example.

Having said that, it is also true that much of the blame lies with immigrant communities themselves. They tend to be utterly useless in terms of social and community support. Their leaders are typically bearded anachronisms from the old country who are woefully unqualified to give any advice relevant to the country where they live. Other than issuing pointless fatwas about the length of the beard and the length of a woman's sleeve, they are worthless to provide any guidance. One would hope that the Islamic communities in the West would have the common sense to appoint leaders and counselors who are locally educated, if not born, and who can help immigrants find a balance between Islam and local culture. Since most Muslim communities have failed to act proactively in this, it is encouraging that Western governments may start mandating these requirements for community leaders.

There is a serious need for Muslim communities to sit down and reconfigure their working in foreign countries. As you are aware, hostilities towards them are increasing and the Muslim communities continue to grow in number. The host government also needs to integrate these people and provide them the opportunity that allows them a chance to play a constructive part of the society. But its up to the Muslim communities themselves to better their situation and contribute more positively their host countries, when a number of them have already been successful then the others who are lagging should not have any problems achieving the same level of success and finally acceptance.

 

[Developereo]

There is discrimination, no doubt about that but its often exaggerated a lot in order to cover the failures of some migrant communities. Employers cannot overlook a highly qualified and intelligent applicant, even with existing biases, an employed would stick with someone who can achieve the best results for their company.

Sorry, that's simply not true. We are not talking about superstars but normal people. For the vast majority of jobs, the applicants are mostly similar and it's a matter of picking one out of them.

It's even more generic when it comes to entry level jobs for fresh graduates. When Muslim kids get filtered out at this level, it discourages them from even trying. Again, this discrimination has been documented by Western studies.

There is a serious need for Muslim communities to sit down and reconfigure their working in foreign countries. As you are aware, hostilities towards them are increasing and the Muslim communities continue to grow in number. The host government also needs to integrate these people and provide them the opportunity that allows them a chance to play a constructive part of the society. But its up to the Muslim communities themselves to better their situation and contribute more positively their host countries, when a number of them have already been successful then the others who are lagging should not have any problems achieving the same level of success and finally acceptance.

The rise of Islamophobia has less to do with the actions of Western Muslims themselves than with the Western media's agenda. As you noted, there are Muslim migrants who are fully integrated, successful and contributing members of society, but they rarely get showcased by the media.

The media is constantly on the lookout for negative stories involving Muslims and the coverage is disproportionately tilted towards the negative. Witness the stories in this thread, as if native Europeans never commit crimes, and criminal behavior is the norm amongst Muslim immigrants.

Certainly the authorities and the community have their work cut out for them, but the unrelenting media makes things worse by stoking unjustified hysteria. For example, the Australian media talks about Middle Eastern criminals, even though the two highest per-capita jail populations and Vietnamese and Pacific Islanders. But if they dare talk about those groups, the media will be accused of anti-Asian racism and, given the importance of Japan and China, Australia is terrified of being perceived as anti-Asian. However, nobody cares if they are openly bigoted against Arabs and Muslims, because Arab and Muslim countries are pathetically impotent.