Muslim Brainwashing...Radicalisation of Muslims in germany.

[Black Widow]

How is this not true? Are you seriously saying Indians are not the same everywhere? I'm not hating, I respect that people keep their cultures, but it is the truth. Same goes with Muslims, you can't expect people to throw away thousands of years of culture and tradition and immediately accept a new one just because you move to a new country. That just doesn't happen.

No one is asking that.. They just asking for acceptance of local culture as well.. Let me give some example, how Hindus adapted to American culture.

1. American hindus don't blow crackers on deepawali coz its banned there.
2. American Hindus don't lit lamp of Ghee and Vegitable oil in USA coz its not allowed there.
3. They don't celebrate ramnavami like they celebrate in India..

Like wise many things are there where they have compromised. When one is living in other country he/she must respect there local culture. You can't live in their land and challenge them to follow your culture....

 

[Major Ram]

How is this not true? Are you seriously saying Indians are not the same everywhere? I'm not hating, I respect that people keep their cultures, but it is the truth. Same goes with Muslims, you can't expect people to throw away thousands of years of culture and tradition and immediately accept a new one just because you move to a new country. That just doesn't happen.

That's what the point is. Indians carry their tradition with them but they do not impose those in other countries. They do not say that everyone should follow the rules and teachings of Geeta. Hence there is no word called IndianPhobia. I agree that you can't leave the century old traditions when you go in a different country, its just that you should not impose them on others. Learn to exist with others.

 

[Urbanized Greyhound]

No one is asking that.. They just asking for acceptance of local culture as well.. Let me give some example, how Hindus adapted to American culture.

1. American hindus don't blow crackers on deepawali coz its banned there.
2. American Hindus don't lit lamp of Ghee and Vegitable oil in USA coz its not allowed there.
3. They don't celebrate ramnavami like they celebrate in India..

Like wise many things are there where they have compromised. When one is living in other country he/she must respect there local culture. You can't live in their land and challenge them to follow your culture....

Very well said !!!

I would also like to bring up an example which illustrates this point more vividly.

Saudi Arabia has a ban on temple construction. Hindus /Christians are not allowed to carry out their religious practices openly. People have been prosecuted on such "offences" as they call it several times .

Center for Religious Freedom

When certain countries have "laws" prohibiting people living the way they want to and not conforming to the countries laws, its unreasonable for immigrants from such countries to expect better treatment in their host countries .

 

[roadrunner]

The German government's attempts to unite different religious groups seem to be turning sour. Introducing lessons on Islam in schools was meant to help integrate the country's three million Muslims. But the policy is having some undesired effects.

a) what they showed wasn't sharia law.

b) nothing wrong with feeling superior. Germans think they're superior too

c) i'd have difficulty believing that was a standard lesson.

yes, it's propaganda most likely. Even the German minister suggested what was on the curriculum didn't tie in with what was said in that lesson.

 

[nasser07]

That's what the point is. Indians carry their tradition with them but they do not impose those in other countries. They do not say that everyone should follow the rules and teachings of Geeta. Hence there is no word called IndianPhobia. I agree that you can't leave the century old traditions when you go in a different country, its just that you should not impose them on others. Learn to exist with others.

Muslims don't impose their values on anyone, this simply is not true. Even the term "Muslim" is rather nonsensical because there are hundreds of different cultures and sets of values between us. I never understand why people think Muslims are monolithic, we are very diverse.

 

[nasser07]

And speaking of imposing values, Muslims ruled Indian subcontinent for almost 800 years, you should be glad Hinduism still exists.

 

[Unbeliever]

The news report illustrates problems, that do exist. They don't exist with a majority of Muslims but a growing number of young Muslims. Especially 3rd and 4th Generation Muslims are notorious for wanting special treatment, not only in Germany, but in all of western European countries, not equal but special EXTRA privilegdes. That is were part of the resentment comes from.
It is also in part a fault of the political left which talks them into feeling discriminated against, when they are really not.

Trying to install Sharia in certain areas is the most extreme example of these problems with not accepted the country that hosts, feeds and educates them (for free). It is also a documented problem. Source and probably the most outrages thing an immigrant group could do.. installing a parralel system of justice. It is still relatively small but as a scholar from the universtiy of Frankfurt says something that "is getting out of hand".

Also I think it is to early to jugde if the state sponsored Islam lessons are the right way to go. What is however very detrimental (and has been proven to) is when foreign Imams come to Germany to teach the youth their backward ways. That needs to stop.

A group of young Muslims in Berlin did a study on this and concluded that Germany gives young Muslims a free pass to often, lacking the discipline they are used to from home thereby allowing anti-social behaviour to foster and get worse.

I am not going to go into to much detail on this but in conlusion: yes it is real, no it is not (yet) as dramatic as shown in the video.

b) nothing wrong with feeling superior. Germans think they're superior too

No they don't, you just made that up. The few that do are shunned from public discourse and interllectual circles.

 

[Major Ram]

And speaking of imposing values, Muslims ruled Indian subcontinent for almost 800 years, you should be glad Hinduism still exists.

Though it is off topic but but if you're talking about history then you should know that there should not be any Muslim in the sub continent if those rulers were very kind. Yes I'm glad that Hinduism still exists not because of those rulers, but because of my ancestors who were ready to die but did not get converted even after being threaten to death. But every society have some cowards so its no one's fault.

 

[Major Ram]

Muslims don't impose their values on anyone, this simply is not true. Even the term "Muslim" is rather nonsensical because there are hundreds of different cultures and sets of values between us. I never understand why people think Muslims are monolithic, we are very diverse.

I hope its true. But we do get some news about imposing sharia and Muslims demand to change flags. And since you insist, I would avoid those news.

 

[Urbanized Greyhound]

Muslims don't impose their values on anyone, this simply is not true. Even the term "Muslim" is rather nonsensical because there are hundreds of different cultures and sets of values between us. I never understand why people think Muslims are monolithic, we are very diverse.

This is the first time , I 'm hearing such an argument -- Most posters think differently . According to them , the concept of Muslim Ummah transcends national barriers , languages and makes all Muslims part of a global brotherhood.

And it is further illustrated when Muslim immigrants in Europe protest when European countries support countries like Israel .

Based on Islamic considerations and sentiments they speak out against their own country troops in Iraq , Afghanistan as "war criminals" , they condemn Britain's support of Russia against Chechenya rebels , they even campaign to remove nursery rhymes because of mention of the word pig .

Three little pigs 'could offend builders, Muslims' - Telegraph

Its why European leaders of countries like Denmark ,Switzerland , Angela Merkal of Germany , Tony Blair says that multiculturalism has failed and muslims must integrate.

BBC News - Merkel says German multicultural society has failed

BBC News - State multiculturalism has failed, says David Cameron

Since when has Saudi Arabia become a model to be used to generalise Muslims? They are a a laughing stock in the West and in the Muslim world alike.

Saudi Arabia being an energy superpower , the richest among all Muslim nations and also the custodians and guardians of Islamic holy cities and shrines --hold enormous influence among Muslims of all denominations and Muslim groups like Charities , Trusts etc.

Through their wealth they fund their ideology of Wahabbism , a strict , literal interpretation of Islam all over the Globe. The mosques in European countries and the U.S being built are funded by them. The preachers and mullahs , whose discourses attract hundreds of Muslim immigrants and their kids --all draw their influence from the Saudis.

So this particular example was very relevant .

Iran or Turkey , other two leaders of the Islamic world advocating moderatism are not just that culturally influential in comparison to Saudis.

 

[nasser07]

This is the first time , I 'm hearing such an argument -- Most posters think differently . According to them , the concept of Muslim Ummah transcends national barriers , languages and makes all Muslims part of a global brotherhood.

And it is further illustrated when Muslim immigrants in Europe protest when European countries support countries like Israel .

Based on Islamic considerations and sentiments they speak out against their own country troops in Iraq , Afghanistan as "war criminals" , they condemn Britain's support of Russia against Chechenya rebels , they even campaign to remove nursery rhymes because of mention of the word pig .

Three little pigs 'could offend builders, Muslims' - Telegraph

Its why European leaders of countries like Denmark ,Switzerland , Angela Merkal of Germany , Tony Blair says that multiculturalism has failed and muslims must integrate.

BBC News - Merkel says German multicultural society has failed

BBC News - State multiculturalism has failed, says David Cameron




Saudi Arabia being an energy superpower , the richest among all Muslim nations and also the custodians and guardians of Islamic holy cities and shrines --hold enormous influence among Muslims of all denominations and Muslim groups like Charities , Trusts etc.

Through their wealth they fund their ideology of Wahabbism , a strict , literal interpretation of Islam all over the Globe. The mosques in European countries and the U.S being built are funded by them. The preachers and mullahs , whose discourses attract hundreds of Muslim immigrants and their kids --all draw their influence from the Saudis.

So this particular example was very relevant .

Iran or Turkey , other two leaders of the Islamic world advocating moderatism are not just that culturally influential in comparison to Saudis.

Yes, it is true that Muslims feel a strong brotherhood, this is fundmental in Islam. Our Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) said: “The Muslim Ummah is like one body. If the eye is in pain then the whole body is in pain and if the head is in pain then the whole body is in pain”.

This is why we are concerned about oppressed Muslims whether in Chechnya, Kashmir, Bosnia, Palestine no matter where they are. But the unity we should look toward should be spiritual not political, because the latter would be disastrous. Khomenei for caliph anyone?

And no Saudi Arabia is not relevant, they may have influence but there culture is very different to other Muslims, even by Arab standard i.e Egyptian culture is very different to Saudi culture.

 

[roadrunner]

The news report illustrates problems, that do exist. They don't exist with a majority of Muslims but a growing number of young Muslims. Especially 3rd and 4th Generation Muslims are notorious for wanting special treatment, not only in Germany, but in all of western European countries, not equal but special EXTRA privilegdes. That is were part of the resentment comes from.

That's bull droppings. Most Muslims, whether 3rd or 4th generation do not want any special treatment. In fact noone asks for any special treatment. If any special treatment is given, it is others who impose them on Muslims.

---------- Post added at 12:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:27 PM ----------

No they don't, you just made that up. The few that do are shunned from public discourse and interllectual circles.

they do actually. You're not German obviously. It is very well known.

 

[roadrunner]

It is also in part a fault of the political left which talks them into feeling discriminated against, when they are really not.

You sound like you'd like to shoot people on the left. Bitter a bit?

Muslims ARE discriminated against in the west. It is well documented. You're a dodo if you believe Muslims are not.

Trying to install Sharia in certain areas is the most extreme example of these problems with not accepted the country that hosts, feeds and educates them (for free). It is also a documented problem. Source and probably the most outrages thing an immigrant group could do.. installing a parralel system of justice. It is still relatively small but as a scholar from the universtiy of Frankfurt says something that "is getting out of hand".

Also I think it is to early to jugde if the state sponsored Islam lessons are the right way to go. What is however very detrimental (and has been proven to) is when foreign Imams come to Germany to teach the youth their backward ways. That needs to stop.

A group of young Muslims in Berlin did a study on this and concluded that Germany gives young Muslims a free pass to often, lacking the discipline they are used to from home thereby allowing anti-social behaviour to foster and get worse.

I am not going to go into to much detail on this but in conlusion: yes it is real, no it is not (yet) as dramatic as shown in the video.

Germany lacks integration because of its wider society. Not only because of its Muslim immigrants.

 

[Urbanized Greyhound]

Yes, it is true that Muslims feel a strong brotherhood, this is fundmental in Islam. Our Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) said: “The Muslim Ummah is like one body. If the eye is in pain then the whole body is in pain and if the head is in pain then the whole body is in pain”.

This is why we are concerned about oppressed Muslims whether in Chechnya, Kashmir, Bosnia, Palestine no matter where they are. But the unity we should look toward should be spiritual not political, because the latter would be disastrous. Khomenei for caliph anyone?

And no Saudi Arabia is not relevant, they may have influence but there culture is very different to other Muslims, even by Arab standard i.e Egyptian culture is very different to Saudi culture.

So you are affected when say a person --just because his faith is Islam suffers from alleged persecution in a far off territory like Chechenya or Kashmir.

and you are willing to hold political rallies,protests , demonstrations , public gatherings with provocative banners like "behead all those who oppose Sharia" etc in demonstration of your solidarity. ?

Then that is no "spiritual" unity . That is purely political unity.

Now geo-politics is a fickle game. Its often seen that Britain under the auspices of the NATO have to take part in wars against Muslim majority countries like Iraq , Afghanistan .

So the question is where should your loyalty lie when such a crossroad arrives ? Its seen that a section of Muslims ( fundamentalists as you remarked) happen to choose solidarity with members of their faith rather than with the British Govt on such issues.

So little wonder they are looked upon with suspicion. Freedom of speech and expression is one thing , but one's loyalty should lie with ones country of adoption ---as one swears whilst taking ones citizenship oath.

 

[Subramanian]

And speaking of imposing values, Muslims ruled Indian subcontinent for almost 800 years, you should be glad Hinduism still exists.

oh,really?i dont seem to remember that.