Muslim and Hindu leaders who were loyalists of British Empire

[KingMamba]

sadly so many of us are so deluded and so hateful that anyone standing up (even virtually) for the minorities immediately gets labeled as minority and thus liable to punishment of apostasy. Look what happened to Gov Taseer at the hands of a Brelvi nutjob

Oh how low have we fallen as a nation and as a community.

I have been reading his other works, as far as I can see he does come off as an Ahmadi in his support for them unequivocally. The only reason why he would disregard Ghulam Ahmad as being pro British IMHO would be that he is himself an Ahmadi. Being that he resides in Lahore he may very well belong to the Lahori group of Ahmadis and I would not blame him for not wanting to reveal his affiliation for fear of his life.

Just like multani here finding it hard to see criticism against his Imam they likewise will feel the same way about their Messiah.

 

[FaujHistorian]

I have been reading his other works, as far as I can see he does come off as an Ahmadi in his support for them unequivocally. The only reason why he would disregard Ghulam Ahmad as being pro British IMHO would be that he is himself an Ahmadi. Being that he resides in Lahore he may very well belong to the Lahori group of Ahmadis and I would not blame him for not wanting to reveal his affiliation for fear of his life.

you highness.

you can do better than this.

Please no conspiracy theories. Since when we gotta shoot the messenger anyways.

If you read his OP, your job is to quote specific passage and refute.

That's all.

Why delve into unrelated ahmadi vs. non-ahmadi stuff. yeah aap ki shaan kay mutabiq nahin Badshah salamat.

 

[KingMamba]

I agree that the Ahmedi leaders were not exactly anti-British!

This is a quote from their leader tell me honestly Joe what does this say about his leaning?

" . . . . for the sake of British Government, I have published & distributed 50,000 leaflets in this country (India) other Islamic countries(against jehad). . . . the result is that hundreds of thousands of people have given up their filthy ideas about Jihad." (Roohani Khazain vol 15 p.114)

If that is not Pro British then nothing is and we should just close this thread.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I have been reading his other works, as far as I can see he does come off as an Ahmadi in his support for them unequivocally. The only reason why he would disregard Ghulam Ahmad as being pro British IMHO would be that he is himself an Ahmadi. Being that he resides in Lahore he may very well belong to the Lahori group of Ahmadis and I would not blame him for not wanting to reveal his affiliation for fear of his life.

Just like multani here finding it hard to see criticism against his Imam they likewise will feel the same way about their Messiah.

With respect, and accepting your insights, I would still go by his personal declaration. That matters to me more than anything else.

 

[KingMamba]

you highness.

you can do better than this.

Please no conspiracy theories. Since when we gotta shoot the messenger anyways.

If you read his OP, your job is to quote specific passage and refute.

That's all.

Why delve into unrelated ahmadi vs. non-ahmadi stuff. yeah aap ki shaan kay mutabiq nahin Badshah salamat.

Lol anyway my point is of all the three in question Deobandis were the most willing to fight against the British to secure freedom of United India, yes they were against the creation of Pakistan later and so you can call them stooges in that regard (of the Indians although they had their own motives) but historically speaking they were not aligned with the Brits whereas Barelvis and Ahmadis were indeed.

Anyway I would never have brought up Ahmadis in this thread if the author did not try to allude that they were not loyal to the Brits while chastising leadership of Barelvi and Deobandis so if anybody brought them into the discussion it was him and I am within my right to question his sect if it is clouding his account which should be squarely based on history.

 

[FaujHistorian]

This is a quote from their leader tell me honestly Joe what does this say about his leaning?

" . . . . for the sake of British Government, I have published & distributed 50,000 leaflets in this country (India) other Islamic countries(against jehad). . . . the result is that hundreds of thousands of people have given up their filthy ideas about Jihad." (Roohani Khazain vol 15 p.114)

If that is not Pro British then nothing is and we should just close this thread.

he can say what he wants.

Did British think his work to be significant to declare him "Shams-ul-Ulema” like they did to DeoBandi Mullahs?

You have to look at this from British side too shehanshahe muazzam

 

[Joe Shearer]

This is a quote from their leader tell me honestly Joe what does this say about his leaning?

" . . . . for the sake of British Government, I have published & distributed 50,000 leaflets in this country (India) other Islamic countries(against jehad). . . . the result is that hundreds of thousands of people have given up their filthy ideas about Jihad." (Roohani Khazain vol 15 p.114)

If that is not Pro British then nothing is and we should just close this thread.

Oh, I do agree, without stating it as my own conclusion, because on this issue, I am not particularly learned or knowledgeable. That is why the damning with faint praise.

 

[KingMamba]

With respect, and accepting your insights, I would still go by his personal declaration. That matters to me more than anything else.

Has he said as much?

he can say what he wants.

Did British think his work to be significant to declare him "Shams-ul-Ulema” like they did to DeoBandi Mullahs?

You have to look at this from British side too shehanshahe muazzam

Read my post about their declaration of Sham ul Ulema, they declared him that because he was considered one of the top Sunni jurist of all of British India at one point and even served as Qazi in the Hyderabad princely state however he never worked for them in any way and he even returned the award so on what basis are you calling him a Pro Brit? Being awarded something does not make him Pro Brit by your definition the Sultan of Oman must be a Pro Pakistani stooge because the government of Pakistan sent him a Nishan e Pakistan lol.

Brits did patronize him that much even he admits in his own works despite not putting a medal on his chest.

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

Imam Ahmad Rida Khan and his sons were against the creation of Pakistan

Rida, lol multani you are to much

 

[Joe Shearer]

I have been reading his other works, as far as I can see he does come off as an Ahmadi in his support for them unequivocally. The only reason why he would disregard Ghulam Ahmad as being pro British IMHO would be that he is himself an Ahmadi. Being that he resides in Lahore he may very well belong to the Lahori group of Ahmadis and I would not blame him for not wanting to reveal his affiliation for fear of his life.

Just like multani here finding it hard to see criticism against his Imam they likewise will feel the same way about their Messiah.

I wish you would stop this line of analysis, @KingMamba. YLH is one of the foremost liberals in Pakistan, and there is no need to delve so deeply into his personal motives, and certainly no need to arrive at conclusions about his affiliations which are contradicted by he himself. He could have vanished into the American melting pot long since, but did not, and lives and practises in a Pakistani city. We need to avoid categorising somebody in contradiction to his professed belief, in these very dangerous times.

 

[Multani]

I have been reading his other works, as far as I can see he does come off as an Ahmadi in his support for them unequivocally. The only reason why he would disregard Ghulam Ahmad as being pro British IMHO would be that he is himself an Ahmadi. Being that he resides in Lahore he may very well belong to the Lahori group of Ahmadis and I would not blame him for not wanting to reveal his affiliation for fear of his life.

Just like multani here finding it hard to see criticism against his Imam they likewise will feel the same way about their Messiah.

you can criticize Imam Ahmad Rida Khan. But either the criticism is flawed or not flawed. That is the issue.

For academic reasons too we have to be fair to everyone.

It is the Ayah of Qur'an al Majeed to have fear of Allah and always speak with fairness

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا اتَّقُوا اللَّهَ وَقُولُوا قَوْلًا سَدِيدًا

 

[Joe Shearer]

Has he said as much?



Read my post about their declaration of Sham ul Ulema, they declared him that because he was considered one of the top Sunni jurist of all of British India at one point and even served as Qazi in the Hyderabad princely state however he never worked for them in any way and he even returned the award so on what basis are you calling him a Pro Brit? Being awarded something does not make him Pro Brit by your definition the Sultan of Oman must be a Pro Pakistani stooge because the government of Pakistan sent him a Nishan e Pakistan lol.

Yes, categorically. On my word of honour.

 

[KingMamba]

you can criticize Imam Ahmad Rida Khan. But either the criticism is flawed or not flawed. That is the issue.

For academic reasons too we have to be fair to everyone.

It is the Ayah of Qur'an Majeed to always speak with fairness

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا اتَّقُوا اللَّهَ وَقُولُوا قَوْلًا سَدِيدًا

Fair enough but I still think your judgement is clouded by your pre-conceived opinion of the man in question.

Yes, categorically. On my word of honour.

Okay then I am just in disagreement with him about the second part of his article.

 

[FaujHistorian]

you can criticize Imam Ahmad Rida Khan. But either the criticism is flawed or not flawed. That is the issue.

For academic reasons too we have to be fair to everyone.

It is the Ayah of Qur'an al Majeed to have fear of Allah and always speak with fairness

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا اتَّقُوا اللَّهَ وَقُولُوا قَوْلًا سَدِيدًا

It is indeed munafiqat if you selectively apply single ayat of Quran in favor of your side and against the other side.

 

[Multani]

ok brothers. i have to go now to prepare for Iftaar and water my lawn

in sha Allah see you in a couple of hours after tarawih