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Mushrraf: Fundamentalists in the Army

I think we clearly need to clarify that extremists and fundamentalists are entirely different.
The extremists are very few and disliked by most people whether in the Army or not.

It truly is pathetic to see experts judging the Army when it offers juices instead of Johny Walker to them...this obsession with cosmetic things is what is common in the anti and pro Islamic extremists, one judges Islam only on the cosmetic things and the other measures Islam only in such cosmetic things like beard, Hijab etc...
In the end both extremes miss the true Islamic values of equality, justice, social welfare, forgiveness etc.
The social reform done by the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is the true essence of Islam and his legacy in no way justifies any extremism and terrorism that is being perpetrated by those who nefarious organizations which claim to be fighting for Islam.
One can see staunch Muslims in the Pakistan Army who have been martyred fighting the TTP and whose conservative Muslim (fundamentalist) families are proud of their son's sacrifice for Pakistan.

Some people call PA extremists and others call them as followers of the west.
The very reason that both views exist makes me even more confident that the PA is indeed treading the middle ground which it should.
That is why it is irking both the Islamic extremists who want nothing better than PA to serve their twisted aims regardless of the cost, and those anti Islamic extremists who wish the PA to be entirely rid of any trace of Islam.

Our soldiers shout Allah o Akbar and many seek martyrdom in a just cause (not terrorism), they do not seek the bloody death and destruction of others and do not gloat in the misfortune of the non Muslims.
They have been deployed throughout the world and have always proven their value as reliable and trustworthy troops who have helped U.N. in many noble humanitarian operations.
They have sacrificed their lives for the U.N. missions regardless of which nation benefits from their efforts.
Such troops will never take up arms in favor of terrorists or extremists.
Rotten eggs are everywhere but they should be taken as the exception and not as the pules of any organization.

TTP can not be named as fundamentalist , they are extremist or anti state elements .

Our army is a fundamentalist army which was designed by zia regime , which is positive sign for muslim ummah , Pakistan is a islamic state in the making and its army should be upgraded as defender of islamic ummah

We should be proud of our army but it need continues change to protect its essence and source of motivation which is islamic fundamentals.

Rotten eggs are those element wanted to change army to a liberal army and wanted to follow the old british or non islamic laws and rules .
 
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if the US and rest of the world tries to denuclearise pakistan, it will be bad news. if it happens it will turn into a use em or lose em condition for them. the GoP and the people of pakistan have invested a lot into those nukes. if someone tries to take them away, what do you think they will do?

they will launch all of them at various targets.


Firstly, US already has his hands deep in Pakistani Nuke establishment. That means, US can detect and stop any Pakistani Nuke attack. Perhaps, only as handful are out of US' reach. That is one of the reasons why Deepak Kapoor talked about the feasibility of limited war because nuclear war option is elimintated as long as US has interests in this region. But once Taliban take control of Rawalpindi, then US(goaded by NATO and his own fears) will denuke Pak. And frankly, nothing can be done to stop this by Pak or PA.

Secondly, neither PA nor Taliban are as insane as one imagines them to be.

the PA is not a pushover like the iraqi army of the taliban forces were. so u cant simply attack like in iraq to stop them from acting.

Infact, for US, PA is more easy target than any other army in the world, it is just that US needs PA presently.

sanctions wont work either. they will make life difficult for the pakistanis but then they will blame the rest of the world for making life difficult for them and will hit back in one of the only 2 ways possible. either a proper war which will end up in a nuclear exchange. or through more terrorism.


Either for war or terrorism, one needs money. The coffers in Islamabad are empty and KL bill is the only remedy. Without US, Pak is doomed. So, if for some reason US believes that Pak needs to be denuclearised for its own safety and that of world's, than nothing can stop US. TTP is helpful to India in this regard, if they are successful.
Most Indians tend to take the political platitudes mouthed by our politicians such as " A stable Pakistan is in India's interest" at face value.
 
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TTP can not be named as fundamentalist , they are extremist or anti state elements .

Our army is a fundamentalist army which was designed by zia regime , which is positive sign for muslim ummah , Pakistan is a islamic state in the making and its army should be upgraded as defender of islamic ummah

We should be proud of our army but it need continues change to protect its essence and source of motivation which is islamic fundamentals.

Rotten eggs are those element wanted to change army to a liberal army and wanted to follow the old british or non islamic laws and rules .

Good post. But a small point: TTP is definitely extremist but an Islamic fundamentalist extremist fighting for the cause of Islam in Pakistan. On the other side, PA is growingly fundamentalist but fighting for the money offered by US(a kaffir nation). So, now tell me, who is the army of Ummah? TTP or PA?
 
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Good post. But a small point: TTP is definitely extremist but an Islamic fundamentalist extremist fighting for the cause of Islam in Pakistan. On the other side, PA is growingly fundamentalist but fighting for the money offered by US(a kaffir nation). So, now tell me, who is the army of Ummah? TTP or PA?

TTP is attacking PA and civilians which is un islamic act, Pakistan is not under occupation so Jehad bil Saif is not valid in Pakistan .

PA has many solid evidences that TTP is gettting arms from India , so we can say TTP is terrorist or fasadi organisation, infact enemy of Islam.

PA is getting aid from US for counter terrorism is allowed as per Islamic principles ,ie US also supported for liberation kuwait.

hope answered the question.
 
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Firstly, US already has his hands deep in Pakistani Nuke establishment. That means, US can detect and stop any Pakistani Nuke attack. Perhaps, only as handful are out of US' reach. That is one of the reasons why Deepak Kapoor talked about the feasibility of limited war because nuclear war option is elimintated as long as US has interests in this region. But once Taliban take control of Rawalpindi, then US(goaded by NATO and his own fears) will denuke Pak. And frankly, nothing can be done to stop this by Pak or PA.

i cant disagree more.
the very premise of the statements you make is that the US is some omnipotent body or the PA is a pack of wusses who wont be able to do anything to stop the US.
neither is true.
PA is a very professional army. if US tries anything the PA will stop it at any cost. there are 3 possible ways for the nukes to be removed form pakistan
1) infiltrate with spies and then steal them without anyone knowing. do i need to mention how stupid and fanciful it sounds even on paper.
2) a special ops raid at the nuclear sites to grab the nukes and run. this sounds less fanciful but is very very difficult. the commandos can not go through the entire pakistani state without PA knowing. and when it knows that the spec ops are coming, u think it cant fight off a few of them? end result. best case, some of the raids succeed and PA loses a few nukes. worst case all of the raids fail. either case PA has very very good reason to tighten its grip on the nukes and have a finger on the button in case another such attempt is made. in short make them paranoid about the nukes.
3) this is the worst option. all out war to take control of all the nuclear warheads and establishments. this is the perfect recipe for the PA to launch the nukes at the invader. end result a radioactive pakistan and fallout in india.

the reason why limited conventional war is possible has been discussed in other threads. it surely is not because uncle sam has the control over pakistani nukes.

Infact, for US, PA is more easy target than any other army in the world, it is just that US needs PA presently.

care to explain this point? why is the PA as easy as the taliban or the iraqi army?
the PA is like one of the top 10 armies in the world. you cant just march into pakistan without them giving u a bloody face. yes okay it might help ur pride to believe that the PA is some 3rd rate army but it isnt.
US can not fight a war against pakistan without paying a very high cost. also china might step in to save its biggest friend around.

Either for war or terrorism, one needs money. The coffers in Islamabad are empty and KL bill is the only remedy. Without US, Pak is doomed.

yes the economy of pakistan might be in a bad shape but the military isnt. even if the economy crashes it will take some time for the military forces to start going down.

So, if for some reason US believes that Pak needs to be denuclearised for its own safety and that of world's, than nothing can stop US. TTP is helpful to India in this regard, if they are successful.

as i mentioned above no one can denuclearise pakistan without pakistani cooperation. not without making the pakistanis paranoid and risking a nuclear conflagration. the TTP destabilises pakistan and pushes us closer to a nuclear war with pakistan.

Secondly, neither PA nor Taliban are as insane as one imagines them to be.

i am very very sure that the PA is not insane. they might have malicious intent towards india but they are not insane.

the TTP however is insane. they want to devolve society back to the 1300s.
and they kill people for the heck of it. only insane people want to do the above 2. i surely dont want insane TTP on my borders or in control of nukes.
 
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TTP is attacking PA and civilians which is un islamic act, Pakistan is not under occupation so Jehad bil Saif is not valid in Pakistan .


TTP claims that PA has become a pawn in the hands of US for the sake of money and fighting against those who want Islam to be the guiding principle of Pakistan. Now, who fighting against Islam?
TTP? How? TTP want Sharia to be implemented. TTP announced that if India attacked Pakistan then they would stand shoulder to shoulder with PA in defending Pakistan.
On the contrary PA kills the TTP to appease US for the sake of dollars doled out by US.(as claimed by TTP).

Thus, though fundamentalists exist in PA, TTP claims that PA itself, as an institution is working as an agent of US. Therefore, Jihad is valid according to TTP. This claim is also being accepted more and more even by the soldiers in PA itself who are questioning why they should fight the TTP.

PA has many solid evidences that TTP is gettting arms from India , so we can say TTP is terrorist or fasadi organisation,

Well, every extremist organisation will get arms from some place or the other.

infact enemy of Islam.

How? You are assuming that PA==Islam. Which is being contested by TTP and many others across the world.

PA is getting aid from US for counter terrorism is allowed as per Islamic principles ,ie US also supported for liberation kuwait.

You are saying that US is a friend of Islam/muslims?:what:

hope answered the question.

Nahi bhai...
 
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Rediff
October 2004

As expected, President General Pervez Musharraf [ Images ] of Pakistan announced a major reshuffle of the senior officers of the Pakistan army [ Images ] of the rank of generals and lieutenant generals on October 2 and 3.

The reshuffle was necessitated by the impending retirement of General Mohammad Aziz Khan as chairman, joint chiefs of staff committee, and General Muhammad Yusuf Khan as vice-chief of the army staff, both on October 7.

With the retirement of General Mohammad Aziz Khan, a Kashmiri belonging to the Sudan tribe, from the army, the Pakistan army does not have any identified fundamentalist officers in the rank of lieutenant general/general.

When Musharraf seized power on October 12, 1999, the army had two identified 'fundos' in the rank of lieutenant general -- Mohammad Aziz Khan, who was then the chief of the general staff and Muzaffar Usmani, the then corps commander, Karachi.

Subsequently, Musharraf appointed Mohammad Aziz Khan as commander of one of the two corps in Lahore [ Images ] and Usmani as deputy chief of the army staff. It was the triumvirate of Usmani as corps commander, Karachi, Mohammad Aziz Khan as the CGS and Mahmood Ahmed, as the then corps commander of Rawalpindi, which staged the coup against Nawaz Sharif [ Images ], the then prime minister, in Musharraf's absence from the country and paved the way for his installation as the military dictator with the designation of chief executive. They refused to accept Nawaz Sharif's order dismissing Musharraf as chief of the army staff and appointing Lieutenant General Ziauddin, the then director general of the Inter-Services Intelligence, in his place. They had both Nawaz Sharif and Ziauddin arrested.

After taking over, Musharraf appointed Lieutenant General Mahmood Ahmed as the DG of the ISI. After 9/11, the US reportedly exercised pressure on Musharraf to ease out all the three from sensitive posts before the US military operations against Al Qaeda [ Images ] and the Taliban [ Images ] commenced on October 7, 2001. The US did not trust Usmani and Mohammad Aziz Khan because of their proximity to Islamic fundamentalist parties. It was annoyed with Mahmood Ahmed because of his failure to pressurise Mulla Mohammad Umer, the amir of the Taliban, to hand over Osama bin Laden [ Images ] to the US.

Musharraf had Usmani and Mahmood removed on October 7, 2001. They went on premature retirement. He could not remove Mohammad Aziz Khan from the army because of his Kashmiri background,his popularity amongst the fundamentalist parties and jihadi organisations and his role in orchestrating the jihad against the Indian army [ Images ] in Jammu and Kashmir [ Images ]. He removed him from Lahore, promoted him as a four-star general and appointed him to the largely powerless post of chairman, joint chiefs of staff committee.

To reassure the fundamentalist parties and the jihadi organisations that his being kicked upstairs would not involve any dilution of Pakistani support to the jihad in J&K, he told them that even after his new appointment he would continue to handle the jihad in J&K.

Usmani, though a fundamentalist like Aziz, was not as popular as Aziz amongst the fundamentalist organisations. Musharraf did not, therefore, have to worry about any negative consequences of his removal.

Even after Aziz retires on October 7, Musharraf has to keep a wary eye on him. Because of his role in the Kashmiri jihad and in helping the Taliban, Aziz is very popular amongst the lower ranks of the army. Some junior army officers and a Kashmiri belonging to the same Sudan tribe as Aziz and hailing from the same village in Azad Kashmir as Aziz, who were arrested following the first unsuccessful attempt to assassinate Musharraf last December, were reported to have stated during the interrogation that they wanted to kill Musharraf not only because of his betrayal of the Taliban and Al Qaeda, but also of Aziz. The Kashmiri detenu reportedly accused Musharraf of preventing a Kashmiri (Aziz) from becoming the COAS for the first time in Pakistan's history, by giving himself an extension.

Musharraf might find himself compelled to reassure the jihadis once again that Aziz's retirement would not mean any change in his Kashmir policy. There is already speculation in Pakistan that he might appoint Aziz as president of ***, replacing Major General Mohammad Anwar Khan (retd), the present president, who is Aziz's cousin or nephew.

Ehsanul Haq, who succeeds Aziz, is believed to be a Pashtun. He is a close friend of Qazi Hussain Ahmed, the amir of the Jamaat-e-Islami, but is not a fundamentalist himself. In 2001, when Musharraf accepted an invitation from then prime minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee [ Images ], to visit India for the Agra [ Images ] summit, the qazi was strongly critical and refused to attend an all-party meeting convened by Musharraf before going to India. Ehsanul Haq, then a corps commander at Peshawar, met the qazi at Musharraf's request and persuaded him to support Musharraf's decision to visit India.

After taking over as DG, ISI, he came under some suspicion in February 2002, when Omar Sheikh, one of the principal accused in the murder of journalist Daniel Pearl, reportedly told the Karachi police during the interrogation that during a visit to Kandahar before 9/11 to meet bin Laden, he had come to know of Al Qaeda's plans for the 9/11 terrorist strikes and had mentioned this to Ehsanul Haq at Peshawar on his return. Omar Sheikh's allegation did not affect Ehsanul Haq's position as the DG, ISI.

The US was reported to have been quite happy with his stewardship of the ISI for three years during which some pro-jihadi officers were eased out of the directorate and many key Al Qaeda operatives, who had taken shelter in Pakistan, including Khalid Sheikh Mohammad, were arrested by the ISI and handed over to the Federal Bureau of Investigation. At the same time, there was concern over his perceived inaction against Taliban leaders operating from Pakistani territory. This, however, did not affect the US' overall positive assessment of him.

Keeping this in view, one would have expected Musharraf to appoint him as the VCOAS, in which capacity he would have continued to supervise and coordinate the functioning of the ISI.

The post of the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff committee to which he has been appointed is a largely paper-rich post involving medium and long-term assessment of the needs of the military, preparing and revising operational plans etc and does not involve important executive and operational responsibilities.

Unless Musharraf has reassured the US that Ehsanul Haq would continue to be actively involved in the operations against Al Qaeda, his being shunted up to this post could mean his marginalisation for the next three years before he quits the army.

It is not clear whether General Ahsan Saleem Hayat, the new VCOAS, who will assist Musharraf in the day to day running of the army and ISI and in supervising the anti-Al Qaeda operations, is a Punjabi or a Mohajir. He is senior to Ehsanul Haq, having been commissioned in 1967 in the armoured corps, whereas Ehsanul Haq was commissioned in 1969 in an army air defence regiment.

Genmeral Hayat is known for his personal loyalty to Musharraf and his proximity to the US. These two factors would seem to have played a role in the June 10 attempt to assassinate him at Karachi by the Jundullah (the Army of Allah), a new organisation, which is a member of the Inmternational Islamic Front.

Not much is known about Lieutenant General Ashfaq Kiani, the new DG of the ISI. He had also served in the past as the DG of military operations, an important post from the point of view of anti-Al Qaeda operations.

Mohammad Aziz Khan and Muhammad Yusuf Khan owed their promotions as lieutenant generals to Nawaz Sharif and not to Musharraf. With them out of the way and the supersession and consequent premature retirement of six others, all the serving lieutenant generals owe their rise above the rank of brigadier personally to Musharraf. He may therefore be confident of their personal loyalty to him.

There is unlikely to be any opposition from them to his giving himself another extension as the COAS or any heartburn over it. The opposition to it is mainly from the political parties and sections of the public. While it is certain that with US backing for his decision, Musharraf will continue to wear the second hat of COAS after December in violation of his formal commitment to the political parties to resign from that post, the events leading to his decision are not proceeding as he had expected them to.

He was planning to have resolutions passed by the federal Parliament and the legislative assemblies of the four provinces requesting him to continue as the COAS too in Pakistan's supreme national interest. The provincial assemblies of Sindh and Punjab [ Images ] have already done so and there should be no problem in getting similar resolutions passed by the federal parliament, which he controls through the Pakistan Muslim League (Quaid-e-Azam) and the defectors from Benazir Bhutto's [ Images ] People's Party.

However, he has been facing difficulty in the North-West Frontier Province and Balochistan. The NWFP assembly, which is dominated by the fundamentalists, has opposed his continuing as the COAS. In the Balochistan a assembly, where the fundamentalists have a large but not dominating presence, his supporters have not yet been able to have their way.

The fundamentalist parties, who feel cheated by him on this issue, have organised a series of rallies to oppose his continuing as the COAS. Reliable reports from Pakistan say the response to their rallies on this issue has been disquietingly (to Musharraf) large in the NWFP, reflecting the continuing Pashtun anger over his cooperation with the US against the Taliban and Al Qaeda.

Musharraf does not, however, have to worry over the protests of the political parties opposed to him and the fundamentalists, so long as he has the support of his army officers and the US. Unless the public protests against him gather unexpected momentum, as had happened under Ayub Khan, which seems unlikely at present, he should have no concerns over any negative public reaction to his violating his commitment on the COAS issue.

If at all there is any threat to Musharraf's position, it is likely to come not from the senior officers, but from junior officers not only in the army, but also in the air force. As admitted by Musharraf in a television interview in June, the investigations into the two attempts to kill him last December have revealed the involvement of junior non-commissioned officers of the army and air force. Any future threat to his position would come mainly from that level and not from a senior level in the form of another conspiracy to kill him.

There is some penetration of jihadi organisations into the army and air force at the lower and middle levels and there is anger against Musharraf at those levels because of his cooperation with the US against Al Qaeda and the Taliban and in the anti-proliferation investigation against Dr A Q Khan, the father of Pakistan's atomic bomb. There is also considerable anger amongst the Shias in the armed forces over his inability to stop the massacre of Shias by Sunni terrorists.
 
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Daily Telegraph
Ahmed Rashid
September 2003


Pakistan's army confirmed yesterday that several officers have been arrested on suspicion of being linked to Islamic extremist groups.

The move will raise renewed fears that the security organs of Pakistan, a nuclear power and important Western ally in the war on terrorism, have been infiltrated by allies of the former Taliban regime and Osama bin Laden.

The Pakistani military spokesman, Maj Gen Shaukat Saulat, admitted that three or four mid-level officers, including a lieutenant colonel, were being investigated for violation of discipline and about suspected links to Islamic extremist groups.

None of the officers was named.

He denied an earlier report by The Daily Times newspaper, which said that up to 16 officers had been arrested on a tip from the American Federal Bureau of Investigation.

Some were said to have returned from Afghanistan where they had been fighting with the Taliban.

The Taliban appear to be regrouping and have been engaged for several days in the biggest fight with United States and Afghan forces since their downfall in November 2001.

The US army said two soldiers died yesterday after being wounded in a clash in the eastern Paktika province, near the border with Afghanistan.

For the past seven days about 700 Afghan soldiers and 70 American special forces aided by helicopter gunships and fighter-bombers have been trying to clear the peaks in Dai Chupan in southern Zabul province of a big Taliban base camp, where several top Taliban leaders are believed to be hiding.

The US military said that at least 33 insurgents had been killed as the Taliban put up stiff resistance.

A retired senior military officer said that the soldiers arrested in Pakistan were likely to be linked to a group of 26 army officers who were arrested in September 1995 for planning an Islamist coup against the then prime minister, Benazir Bhutto.

Government officials say the arrests may also be linked to the detention in Rawalpindi in March 2003 of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the third most senior al-Qa'eda leader in Rawalpindi.


Khalid Mohammed, who has since provided American intelligence with a treasure trove of information, was arrested at the home of Ahmad Abdul Qaboos, a member of the fundamentalist Jamaat-e-Islami.
Qaboos and his brother Adil, a major in the army, were arrested for supporting al-Qa'eda.

There is mounting concern in the West that Islamic extremism is rising in the army's officer corps, even as President Pervaiz Musharraf increasingly links himself with US policy in the Muslim world.

In the past the army had long supported extremist Islamic causes such as the Taliban in Afghanistan and similar militant groups in Kashmir, Chechnya and Central Asia.

Since September 11, however, President Musharraf has been at pains to stress that Islamic fundamentalism or sympathy for Islamic terrorist groups had been eliminated in the army.

"There is always a lot of turbulence in the army going on all the time that people don't hear about," said Hassan Askar-Rizvi, an author who has written several books on the army.

He added: "Some of these arrested officers are likely to have had links with extremist sectarian groups, which the government has banned."
 
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CQ Politics
May 2009

A retired Pakistani general confided a deep worry to a friend in Washington last week: that some young officers in Pakistan's regular army have become increasingly sympathetic over the past few years to the Taliban and their brand of radical Islam.

While he had no numbers or percentages of officers sympathetic to the Taliban, the possibility of any defections raises questions about the reliability of these officers during any sort of push against the Taliban by the Pakistani army.


Concern over the reliability of Pakistan's officer corps has heretofore focused on the ISI, or Inter-Services Intelligence service, which was wedded to CIA-backed fundamentalist Afghan rebels fighting to oust the Soviet Red Army during the 1980s. A faction of ISI officers is said to remain loyal to the fundamentalists.

The defection of regular army officers to fundamentalist rebels advancing through the Swat Valley toward Islamabad would add another wild card to various nightmare scenarios for Pakistan, a nuclear-armed nation.

Arthur Keller, a CIA spy handler in Pakistan in 2006, told me that he had personally encountered treachery in the army.

"I know of at least two instances from my brief time in Pakistan where we found Pak officers sabotaging the CIA's work in favor of the Taliban and/or al Qaeda," Keller said by email Monday.

And there were similar alarming incidents, said an intelligence source who demanded anonymity.

In 2005 American eavesdroppers overheard a Pakistani officer tipping off the Haqqani network -- the most dangerous, al Qaeda-linked Afghan rebel clan -- of an impending raid against it.

In another instance, ISI's Directorate S, in charge of external operations, such as Kashmiri independence militants, was releasing militant suspects arrested by ISI's counterterrorism Directorate C.
 
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Professor Ishtiaq Ahmed has recently published this note during his research at the Institute of South Asian Studies, National University of Singapore. (Excerpt)
2009

For analytical purposes, one can distinguish between the Sandhurst-type orientation of the erstwhile Pakistan military establishment and changes in a more populist nationalist direction that began to take place after the 1965 war with India. Later, a radical Islamist orientation also took place during Chief of Army Staff General Zia-ul-Haq’s time as president (1977-88). He made concerted efforts to foster a strong Islamist character in the military. After his death in 1988, his successors were not committed to Islamism in any strong ideological sense. Apart from his immediate successor, General Mirza Aslam Beg, who though not an Islamist was a radical nationalist, his successors, the generals Asif Nawaz Janjua, Abdul Wahid Kakkar, Jahangir Karamat and Pervez Musharraf were middle-of-the-road army chiefs who considered Islamism at best a resource they could exploit in some situations. Ordinarily they viewed it as a liability that detracted from the high standards of a professional fighting force. Brigadier (Retd) Yasub Ali Dogar even argued that although General Zia was personally a strict Muslim, his interest in Islamism was more instrumental than ideological. At any rate, it was reported in 2002 that some 30 percent of the officers harboured Islamist sympathies.

I was assured by General (Retd) Jahangir Karamat and Lt. General Javed Ashraf Qazi, who had served earlier as Director-General of the ISI and until recently as a federal minister in the outgoing government of General Prevez Musharraf, that following 9/11, the Islamists had been purged from the military and intelligence services.
They conceded, however, that retired Islamists could still wield influence as they were part of different networks.
 
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