Musharraf Tells Bush To Butt Out!

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Musharraf thumbs his nose at US​

17 Nov 2007, 2317 hrs IST,Chidanand Rajghatta,TNN
Print Save EMail Write to Editor
WASHINGTON: The Bush administration has egg on its face after its long favoured military dictator Pervez Musharraf bluntly rejected its demand that he lift Emergency, and instead put the fear of "loose nukes" into Washington if the west pressed too hard.

Musharraf told Washington's No.2 diplomat John Negroponte on Saturday that the Emergency is meant to reinforce and strengthen the law enforcement apparatus in the fight against militancy and extremism.

"President Musharraf made it clear to the visiting US envoy that the Emergency can only be lifted once the situation regarding law and order improves," a Musharraf aide told wire services after the two met for two hours in Islamabad.

Musharraf also played on Washington's fear of loose nukes by suggesting that if the elections were held in a "disturbed atmosphere" it could bring in dangerous elements who might pose a risk to control of Pakistan's nuclear weapons.

"They cannot fall into the wrong hands, if we manage ourselves politically. The military is there - as long as the military is there, nothing happens to the strategic assets, we are in charge and nobody does anything with them," he told BBC ahead of the meeting.

The public rebuff - and the loose nukes threat - leaves US policy in Pakistan in near tatters, since it was premised on Bush's proposition that Musharraf is his "tight" buddy, a "man of courage and vision" who he could do business with.

The US also believed that it has the leverage to bend Musharraf to its will because it pays the Pakistani military more than $100 million a month for services rendered in the "war on terror" besides millions in military hardware and equipment.

Ahead of the Negroponte visit, US officials had said he would deliver a "tough message" to Musharraf. But instead, it appears it was Musharraf who has sent a tough message to Bush – to butt out.

Threats of an aid cut seem to have made no impression since the administration has already signalled that this was not on the cards because of it need for access into Afghanistan.

The administration's response to snub was not immediately forthcoming, although the US media quoted unnamed official in Islamabad diplomat as saying "In diplomacy, things don't happen instantaneously."

The diplomat insisted that Negroponte "came with a very strong message and he delivered a very strong message."

In the past week Washington has clutched at the crumbs and straws Musharraf has cast amid a growing clamour here to dump the dictator.

Administration officials made much of Musharraf releasing some opposition figures and civil rights activists from prison and relaxing the hold on the media, although thousands remain incarcerated and press freedom is now subject to compliance to new military guidelines.

The Bush administration still believes in the proposition that Musharraf is the frontline ally in its war on terror and its efforts to contain nuclear weapons spread, even though Pakistan, under the dictator, has cut deals with the militants, freed terrorists, and has retreated and lost vast swath of territory, while cracking down on civil society.

It also stands accused of giving nuclear weapons technology and guidance to rogue regimes and while its scientists have parlayed with Osama bin Laden.

Washington's credulous approach is now being sharply questioned by some lawmakers and analysts. "Musharraf is a sharp, intelligent individual who is playing with the naivety of France's, Europe's and America's diplomacy," the French writer Bernard Levy said in a talk this week, arguing that the jihadist threat in Pakistan is not limited to its borders, but is also establishment-based and comes from the heart of the country which Musharraf controls.

"In my experience, unfortunately the red areas are not at the margins, but at the very center," Levy said. "Terrorists and jihadists are like fish in water in Islamabad and in Karachi itself."

Lawmakers who realise this are pressing the administration to cut ties with Pakistan's military establishment, arguing that Washington is losing traction with Pakistani civil society. But an equally influential group is buying Musharraf's argument and stressing that continued backing for the military is key to preventing loose nukes.

This is the weekend that Bush and Washington might have to make a call one way or the other.

I don't usually care much for Rajghatta's drivel, but some interesting opinions in here.

I guess the question is, will the US back off once the SC verdict comes in and Musharraf doffs his uniform? Or even more importantly, will the US wait that long?

Also, why is the US so doggedly pursuing Bhutto, when a wide spectrum of Pakistanis have expressed strong disapproval of her. It is also becoming more and more apparent, from Musharraf's comments, that Bhutto is going to get no "extra help" in the elections, unless something dramatic happens - which means she will be at the mercy of the electorate and will probably not garner enough seats to form a government on her own.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Musharraf thumbs his nose at US

17 Nov 2007, 2317 hrs IST,Chidanand Rajghatta,TNN

Print Save EMail Write to Editor

WASHINGTON: The Bush administration has egg on its face after its long favoured military dictator Pervez Musharraf bluntly rejected its demand that he lift Emergency, and instead put the fear of "loose nukes" into Washington if the west pressed too hard.

Musharraf told Washington's No.2 diplomat John Negroponte on Saturday that the Emergency is meant to reinforce and strengthen the law enforcement apparatus in the fight against militancy and extremism.

"President Musharraf made it clear to the visiting US envoy that the Emergency can only be lifted once the situation regarding law and order improves," a Musharraf aide told wire services after the two met for two hours in Islamabad.

Musharraf also played on Washington's fear of loose nukes by suggesting that if the elections were held in a "disturbed atmosphere" it could bring in dangerous elements who might pose a risk to control of Pakistan's nuclear weapons.

"They cannot fall into the wrong hands, if we manage ourselves politically. The military is there - as long as the military is there, nothing happens to the strategic assets, we are in charge and nobody does anything with them," he told BBC ahead of the meeting.

The public rebuff - and the loose nukes threat - leaves US policy in Pakistan in near tatters, since it was premised on Bush's proposition that Musharraf is his "tight" buddy, a "man of courage and vision" who he could do business with.

The US also believed that it has the leverage to bend Musharraf to its will because it pays the Pakistani military more than $100 million a month for services rendered in the "war on terror" besides millions in military hardware and equipment.

Ahead of the Negroponte visit, US officials had said he would deliver a "tough message" to Musharraf. But instead, it appears it was Musharraf who has sent a tough message to Bush – to butt out.

Threats of an aid cut seem to have made no impression since the administration has already signalled that this was not on the cards because of it need for access into Afghanistan.

The administration's response to snub was not immediately forthcoming, although the US media quoted unnamed official in Islamabad diplomat as saying "In diplomacy, things don't happen instantaneously."

The diplomat insisted that Negroponte "came with a very strong message and he delivered a very strong message."

In the past week Washington has clutched at the crumbs and straws Musharraf has cast amid a growing clamour here to dump the dictator.

Administration officials made much of Musharraf releasing some opposition figures and civil rights activists from prison and relaxing the hold on the media, although thousands remain incarcerated and press freedom is now subject to compliance to new military guidelines.

The Bush administration still believes in the proposition that Musharraf is the frontline ally in its war on terror and its efforts to contain nuclear weapons spread, even though Pakistan, under the dictator, has cut deals with the militants, freed terrorists, and has retreated and lost vast swath of territory, while cracking down on civil society.

It also stands accused of giving nuclear weapons technology and guidance to rogue regimes and while its scientists have parlayed with Osama bin Laden.

Washington's credulous approach is now being sharply questioned by some lawmakers and analysts. "Musharraf is a sharp, intelligent individual who is playing with the naivety of France's, Europe's and America's diplomacy," the French writer Bernard Levy said in a talk this week, arguing that the jihadist threat in Pakistan is not limited to its borders, but is also establishment-based and comes from the heart of the country which Musharraf controls.

"In my experience, unfortunately the red areas are not at the margins, but at the very center," Levy said. "Terrorists and jihadists are like fish in water in Islamabad and in Karachi itself."

Lawmakers who realise this are pressing the administration to cut ties with Pakistan's military establishment, arguing that Washington is losing traction with Pakistani civil society. But an equally influential group is buying Musharraf's argument and stressing that continued backing for the military is key to preventing loose nukes.

This is the weekend that Bush and Washington might have to make a call one way or the other.

I don't usually care much for Rajghatta's drivel, but some interesting opinions in here.

I guess the question is, will the US back off once the SC verdict comes in and Musharraf doffs his uniform? Or even more importantly, will the US wait that long?

Also, why is the US so doggedly pursuing Bhutto, when a wide spectrum of Pakistanis have expressed strong disapproval of her. It is also becoming more and more apparent, from Musharraf's comments, that Bhutto is going to get no "extra help" in the elections, unless something dramatic happens - which means she will be at the mercy of the electorate and will probably not garner enough seats to form a government on her own.

Rajghata makes interesting points (in bold in the article).

There is no egg on the face of the Bush Administration at all!

While there is no doubt that the US expects Pakistan to acquiesce to some points, they are well aware that Musharraf has a mind of his own too!

It is not realistic to believe that Musharraf, who has staked it all, will lift Emergency just because the US is stating so.

There could have surely been some understanding as to when it will be lifted and in what circumstances. Unless someone informs the world about the same, how can one conjecture that some sort of understanding has been reached or not?

And even if it has been reached, why should the cards not be held close to the chest and instead allow the political adversaries to chalk out new strategies to keel haul that same and create new problems?

Journalists do have a tendency for the bizarre and exaggeration.

We also see it quite regularly, don't we?

 

[Awesome]

I would say Musharraf needs to head to wards deescalation now. I think deescalation would be well received by everyone. Public, media and foreigners.

By Nov 22nd he should at least start removing the elements of emergency even though he doesn't lift it in name. It's like a ship being on red alert. You don't lift the red-alert first and then address the alert. You first make your repairs and then lift it.

AM, you hate Chidu Raj too?

 

[Cheetah786]

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (AP) - Pakistan's military ruler faced intense U.S. pressure Saturday to end emergency rule and restore democracy, with Washington's No. 2 diplomat personally delivering what many here see as a sharp warning from a once staunch ally.

Whether President Gen. Pervez Musharraf was ready to listen was the question. He says the two-week long emergency - which has seen opponents jailed, judges purged and independent TV stations muffled - is needed to hold a peaceful vote in the country beset by an increasingly potent Islamic insurgency.

U.S. Deputy Secretary of State John Negroponte's trip was seen as a last best chance to persuade him and avoid political turmoil in Pakistan, a key front in the war on terror. The diplomat was expected to make his only public comment at a news conference scheduled for early Sunday, just ahead of his departure.

Negroponte met for more than two hours with Musharraf and Pakistan's deputy army commander, Gen. Ashfaq Kayani, said an official in the president's office, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to talk with the media. Kayani is widely expected to take over the powerful role of military chief in the coming weeks when Musharraf sheds his uniform and starts his second term as president in the coming weeks.
The official said Musharraf told Negroponte the emergency was needed to hold a successful vote.

He wouldn't say what Negroponte had told Musharraf, and U.S. officials weren't talking. But going into the meeting, senior Bush administration officials were clear on what they wanted: an end to the emergency, a date set for legislative elections in January, the release of opposition leaders and that Musharraf step down as army chief.

"We want to work with the government and people of Pakistan and the political actors in Pakistan to put the political process back on track as soon as possible," Negroponte said Friday during a stop in Africa.

He arrived in Pakistan a few hours later and phoned former prime minister Benazir Bhutto, the highest-level U.S. contact with the Pakistani opposition leader since the emergency began. In their discussion, Negroponte underscored Washington's opposition to the emergency and its desire to see her and other opposition figures free to peacefully take part in Pakistani politics, said U.S. State Department spokesman Sean McCormack.

The conversation came just hours after Bhutto was released from house arrest, one of a number of face-saving measures the government took ahead of the senior American diplomat's arrival. A prominent human rights activist was also released, and several opposition television news stations were allowed back on the air.

But there were also some ominous signs, with the broadcasts of two major independent television news stations - Geo and ARY, both of which transmit from nearby Dubai - being cut. Both stations said Dubai took action in response to pressure from Musharraf.

GEO broadcast a continuous video of a thunderstorm at sea, with its logo floating on the choppy waves. "The pressure was so intense from Gen. Musharraf," prompting the state-owned Dubai Media City to order the signal cut at midnight Friday, Shahid Massood, Geo Group executive director, said from Dubai.

Neither Emirati nor Pakistani officials commented on the allegations.

Bhutto and Musharraf had been negotiating a power-sharing arrangement, but talks apparently collapsed as the general moved against the opposition following his decision to suspend the constitution.

She has in recent days made increasingly strident demands for Musharraf to resign, and has proposed the opposition form a unity front to serve as a transition government ahead of elections due by Jan. 9.

The general, who until recently had been considered a vital U.S. ally and a bulwark in the war on terror, has steadfastly refused. Instead, he's expressed exasperation with the mounting Western pressure and has pressed ahead with disputed plans for January elections, swearing in an interim government Friday charged with preparing for the vote.

Musharraf has also come under fire for his military's recent losses in fighting with pro-Taliban militants in Swat, where violence has raged since July and insurgents have captured several villages, police stations and government building.

A top general announced Saturday that the army has massed 15,000 troops for a major assault on Islamic militants in the northern valley, and the army said it had killed 40 militants there.

A militant spokesman said the government's figures were greatly exaggerated, but acknowledged suffering some casualties.


My Way News - Pakistan's Musharraf Faces US Pressure

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

AM, you hate Chidu Raj too?

With a passion - The guy will do anything to spin a story to look unfavorable for Pakistan. US discussions with India are "consultations" - the same with Pakistan are "US admonishes/tells (warns etc.) Pakistan".

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

He will also do anything to spin an anti Indian article too!

He sings for his supper. A Little Tommy Tucker, he is!

 

[fatman17]

I would say Musharraf needs to head to wards deescalation now. I think deescalation would be well received by everyone. Public, media and foreigners.

By Nov 22nd he should at least start removing the elements of emergency even though he doesn't lift it in name. It's like a ship being on red alert. You don't lift the red-alert first and then address the alert. You first make your repairs and then lift it.

AM, you hate Chidu Raj too?

I think the best compromise would be to:

1. lift the gag order on the TV.
2. free all lawyers/politicians/political workers etc.
3. keep the emergency in the NWFP along with points 1&2.
4. lift the emergency from the rest of the country.

 

[Awaaz]

Well i believe people of pakistan need to realise that in our short history the goverment has always been toppled by the military, who seem think they have the best interests of pakistan at heart. Well this has never been the case.

At present moment the federal goverment and those who benifit from it label sarhad and balochistan as bacward people who do not wish for development. That is entirely untrue becuase this is another excuse by the goverment to act against those higlight the problems and corruption within pakistani goverment.

Goverment of pakistan has no interests of people od these regions from their heart, they have discovered minerals and other things that want to control and benifit from. There is no true development and elimination of hunger from these regions but smart steps to control the local reserves and benfit from these.

The goverment is riddled with corruption and dominated by army who in large numbers of paunjabi origin, those soldiers who are not of punjabi origin are just shelf soldiers withour any true say and power. This is done to make the system look more fair and just.

I believe that people of sarhad and balochistan can modernise and move forward without being robbed and cheated by the federal goverment. We are bringing in another corrupt soul by the name of benazir who had charges dropped against her.

Sarhad and balochistan should seek independence from pakistan and only be united in military terms, how scotland england and wales operate, there is no other way or solution, hope is a good thing we all hope for a fair and just system but we have been hoping for that for past 60 years.

That hope has not brought any results and only way forward is independence.

 

[Spring Onion]

I think the best compromise would be to:

1. lift the gag order on the TV.
2. free all lawyers/politicians/political workers etc.
3. keep the emergency in the NWFP along with points 1&2.
4. lift the emergency from the rest of the country.

1. all channels except ARY and Geo are on air. UAE yesterday shown wilingness to let Geo on air from Dubai.

2. Journalist have been freed long before who were arrested when emergecny was clamped. same goes for political leaders and activists, lawyers (only few political leaders are in jails) all others including lawyers/politicians/political workers are only arrested for sometimes that too on day to day protest basis and they are afterwards let free.

3/4. Why should the emergency be not lifted from NWFP and same should be lifetd from the rest of the country ??????????

Sir would you eleborate it.

 

[Awaaz]

I think the best compromise would be to:

1. lift the gag order on the TV.
2. free all lawyers/politicians/political workers etc.
3. keep the emergency in the NWFP along with points 1&2.
4. lift the emergency from the rest of the country.

Why keep the emergency in nwfp? classic example of an unfair system that favours discrimination of people of these regions. I am glad people like your self makes these comments as this what we need to open the eyes of our people and seek independence.

 

[Cheetah786]

Well i believe people of pakistan need to realise that in our short history the goverment has always been toppled by the military, who seem think they have the best interests of pakistan at heart. Well this has never been the case.

At present moment the federal goverment and those who benifit from it label sarhad and balochistan as bacward people who do not wish for development. That is entirely untrue becuase this is another excuse by the goverment to act against those higlight the problems and corruption within pakistani goverment.

Goverment of pakistan has no interests of people od these regions from their heart, they have discovered minerals and other things that want to control and benifit from. There is no true development and elimination of hunger from these regions but smart steps to control the local reserves and benfit from these.

The goverment is riddled with corruption and dominated by army who in large numbers of paunjabi origin, those soldiers who are not of punjabi origin are just shelf soldiers withour any true say and power. This is done to make the system look more fair and just.

I believe that people of sarhad and balochistan can modernise and move forward without being robbed and cheated by the federal goverment. We are bringing in another corrupt soul by the name of benazir who had charges dropped against her.

Sarhad and balochistan should seek independence from pakistan and only be united in military terms, how scotland england and wales operate, there is no other way or solution, hope is a good thing we all hope for a fair and just system but we have been hoping for that for past 60 years.

That hope has not brought any results and only way forward is independence.

If Punjabi's dominate the Army then from Zia to Mushy all Urdu speaking Pakistanis care to explain why army dominated by Punjabi's is choosing generals that are Urdu speaking.

NWFP IS a different story then Baluchistan.iam going to assume you are a Bloch or an Indian .as i doubt the ordinary blotches are even allowed to go to school by the sardars.you no the ones who claim to be working for the ordinary Bloch.since independence these so called sardars have done any thing and every thing to keep people back wards. i agree feds have not payed as much attention to Baluchistan as they should have.

Tell us all what have the sardars done for people of Baluchistan

NWFP IS BACKWARD AND WILL REMAIN BACKWARD till they understand the value of education (Islam is the only religion that tells you to get education open your brains ) except the self created religion thats being followed in NWFP AND AFGHANISTAN) no one and i mean no one can help the ones who don't wanna be helped.

ONLY SOLUTION IS KILL THE SARDARS AND MULLAHS.

 

[Always Neutral]

I think Gen M has lost his last supporter in the States and they will remove him in a way which will not be seen as Anti Pakistan but will send a silent message to others that no one is indispensible.

I agree with Cheetahs post about getting rid of mullahs and sardars in the NWFP as they only have their own interests in their mind and not Pakistans. However I hope Pakistan achieves that thru better education and health facilities not by the use of force.

Regards

Scores killed in sectarian violence in Pakistan - International Herald Tribune

Scores killed in sectarian violence in Pakistan

International Herald Tribune, The Associated PressPublished: November 18, 2007


ISLAMABAD: Fierce battles between Sunni and Shiite Muslims in Pakistan's volatile northwest have left 91 people dead, officials said Sunday, despite the imposition of a state of emergency justified in part by the need to quell sectarian unrest.

Combatants used mortars and other heavy weapons in the Shiite-majority town of Parachinar late Saturday and early Sunday, an intelligence official told The Associated Press, speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

^^^ yeah that is the region Awaaz wants us to "leave alone", so his "home boys" can continue "rolling" with their Assault rifles, RPG's and mortars.

The sectarian clashes in that region have been going on for decades. The only solution is to disarm them - but when you have people like Awaaz defending such medieval and barbaric customs and traditions under the canard of "our culture" how do you affect reform?

 

[Awaaz]

^^^ yeah that is the region Awaaz wants us to "leave alone", so his "home boys" can continue "rolling" with their Assault rifles, RPG's and mortars.

The sectarian clashes in that region have been going on for decades. The only solution is to disarm them - but when you have people like Awaaz defending such medieval and barbaric customs and traditions under the canard of "our culture" how do you affect reform?

Well why blame me? i am not against modernisation and rule of law and justice. I am actually for it, but thats just a pipe dream, because that will never happen.

There is no system that binds people, therefore people stick to their ways when they see that modernisation comes at a price and whats the price country under military rule. No civilian goverment heading the people, from begining corruption has silently grown in the instituions. Judiciary riddled with corruption, who ever comes to power is out for their own personal interests rather then the peoples. But i rather have a civilian democratic goverment even if its corrupt rather then a tyrant who forced his way in to an establishment that all our fathers punjabis sindhis balochs pushtoon and muhajirs sacrificed their lives for.

Mega projects now are sixty years too late, in previous decades most attention was paid to karachi due to a port and most investment was made there. Other mega projects were in punjab and other parts of sindh, now 30/40 years down the line china has interests in securing its oil and various other supllies a port has been opened at gwadar. Well we are against modernisation you say, of course not i say, but would there have been a port built at gwadar if it didnt serve chinas interests?.

I say no, then we would have not be hearing that people are against modernisation because nothing would have been and goverment wouldnt have given a toss.

Same with gas and other mineral found in balochistan, well goverment didint invest for 40 odd years in this province but now all these minerals are found it pretends it cares and is out for local peoples interests. Its not because it didint care for decades its only after filling the its pockets.

You say i may be an indian, shall i give u my nic number? tell you my place of birth, he he he why me as a pakistani not allowed to criticise my country, am i not allowed freedom of speech and thought?.

 

[Always Neutral]

Well said Mr Awaaz.