Musharraf ruined PAF project, says ex-air chief

[Alphacharlie]

Hi,

Thank you for your post-----chinese awacs can still do the job---awacs are different creatures in operability---they cannot be compared with fighter aircraft----.

You need to understand that the trackers ( awacs ) are a different breed of creatures---hunter killers ( air superiority ) are a different breed of creatures---. Given the technology---a lot depends on the operator and the team leader---because you are living on whims most of the time---being some where between the truth or a lie---.

The difference between the swedish and the chinese is not such that the chinese system may be deemed as impotent---. We still need to keep the arena that we are going to be fighting in---in our minds----it is like fighting in a close looped circuit---only so many venues of attack and escape routes.

Sir ...point taken.

Addressing the serviceability issue....are you prepared to go for a System which has much poor service record than proven (Saab) systems.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Here is the fact , this guys logic is

a) Don't buy new technology because you have to train people so by that account he probably uses windows 95 on his computer
b) But his account its a BURDEN on Pakistan Airforce to have 300 JF17 thunders getting situational awareness from F16C/D
c) According to the RETIRED fox (grapes are sour) , its a burden not to diversify the assets for Pakistan Airforce
d) Its also a burden that our scientist are jointly working on the radars for the new awacs etc and other technologies


Clearly Musharaf had vision and this guy did not

 

[somebozo]

Here is the fact , this guys logic is

a) Don't buy new technology because you have to train people so by that account he probably uses windows 95 on his computer
b) But his account its a BURDEN on Pakistan Airforce to have 300 JF17 thunders getting situational awareness from F16C/D
c) According to the RETIRED fox (grapes are sour) , its a burden not to diversify the assets for Pakistan Airforce
d) Its also a burden that our scientist are jointly working on the radars for the new awacs etc and other technologies


Clearly Musharaf had vision and this guy did not

He is a total clown!

 

[araz]

I personally think Mushharraf made the right decision at the right time. I might sound paranoid but if push comes to shove I would feel much safer having chinese equiment than Eu ones. You have all seen how quickly the thunder is evolving. It is because we dont have any restrictions on use of the equipment. We try nwer things and make slight tweeks to make things progressively better. this was exactly what we wanted, something that we have unreserved access to to tinker with and make better and learn in the bargian. the time for just buying is long gone, we need to move on and buy only technology that can be incorporated into our current equipment. So in this case, Musharraf ACE and Sadaat JACK!!!
At least this is my view point.
Araz

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Sir ...point taken.

Addressing the serviceability issue....are you prepared to go for a System which has much poor service record than proven (Saab) systems.

Sorry i missed that part. where and how do you know the Chinese AWACS have poor service record?

 

[Donatello]

Sir ...point taken.

Addressing the serviceability issue....are you prepared to go for a System which has much poor service record than proven (Saab) systems.

Which system are you taking about.....that has 'Much poor service record'...?

 

[Alphacharlie]

Gentlemen - I will just say one simple liner.

I am referring to Shaanxi ZDK-03 it for sure will take time to fit in the list of established AWACs platforms
E-3 Sentry,
IAI Phalcon
E-2D Hawkeye,
SAAB Erieye
Boeing 737 Wedgetail,
Briev A-50,

We used/use Russian equipment and have massive serviceability issues for P 15/19/ST-68 Umbrela

Chinese have ventured in Radar Tech in 1990 to be specific they have moved in AWACS Domain, Yes have produced L band radars.Shaanxi ZDK-03 is an advanced platform which has summation of Moving Target Indicator (MTI) and Pulse Doppler (PD) Radars.

Chinese have used a Lot of tech from Russian A50 Berievs. In defence spheres, we say Yes China is Growing in EW n C but will take time to match established players.

But the question is have they reached a stage where we feel threatened, needs to be proven.

Being unbiased in commenting, Russian which is much ahead of Chinese in Radar Tech gave so many many head aches across the globe to militaries us for sure, have seen PCBs fusing off, Radars Cluttered due to EMFs....

Honestly speaking cant agree on Chinese Radars to be ever serviceable 100% , when Russian keep on Cluttering/Blanking out. Repair equipment not being available.....

Gentlemen the way AEM chaps take care of Birds similarly Radars need massive servicing. I am not going to raise the range issue to create un-needed gas on the subject who is better or not..

When border is 20km away an airborne platform with 100-150km range is more than enough to give complete picture of the BFS. AeroStat Balloons do same job magnificently....

Phalcons even though inducted, we still are learning how to keep them polished. 3 systems have been inducted at any given time all 3 are not ready for deployment.Each sortie of 3-4 hours is backed by 8-10 hours of maintenacance. FYI AESA Radars need havey maintenance for a layman they are Mustang of Air consuming massive manhours and power to run.

Bottom-line go to nation who is working in field of Radar Tech for decades rather than just 15-20 years or so... FYI KJ200 made its maiden sortie in 2001 when USA embargoed IAI Phalcon sale to Chinese in late 90s. Given an option, wouldnt you like to move to Sentry, if offered.

If am on SEAD will feel much more threatened by SAAB than ZDK. Dont want my lifelines RT or MTI being cluttered by your Tracker....

(Mastan saab I am Big Fan of yours.)

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I think there was wisdom in getting 2 platforms , as Chinese platform will continuously evolve and improve

Musharaf time we got
F16
OHP
AWACS
P3ORIONS
AMRAAM
SUPPORT
FMS program

He knew what he was doing

 

[Thorough Pro]

Zardari was also our president, and like Musharraf he too didn't have a tail on his back or horns on his head.

oh crap i could not bellieve our president who is responsible of defending pakistan and making armed forces more powerfull he did this any way so what should now paf do i think still we had not signed deal with chinese firm for awacs we can ask again saab for 6 awacs

and what was the wisdom in pre-maturely acquiring a system that had not fully evolved? Saab was not the last purchase

I think there was wisdom in getting 2 platforms , as Chinese platform will continuously evolve and improve

 

[Pak_Sher]

Diversifying multiple sources of equipment procurement may not be a bad idea.

 

[Waffen SS]

Diversifying multiple sources of equipment procurement may not be a bad idea.

It might complicate logistics and inter-operability of various assets???

 

[Pak_Sher]

It might complicate logistics and inter-operability of various assets???

Yes, but please remember Pakistan needs to diversify technologies and always should be prepared for sanctions. China has been a reliable supplier.

 

[Arsalan]

I think there was wisdom in getting 2 platforms , as Chinese platform will continuously evolve and improve

Musharaf time we got
F16
OHP
AWACS
P3ORIONS
AMRAAM
SUPPORT
FMS program

He knew what he was doing

Check the date on post you have just quoted!