Musharaf insults Dr A Q Khan

[Bull]

Other than mushy everyone believes so too.
Dr A Q Khan was questioned by CIA in pakistan.:wall:

There is nothing wrong in him being questioned.

On second thoughts i feel,

World would not have asked pakistan to roll back the nuke program as it was in response to india going nuclear.

Iran and Korean distractions is not the real reason why the world didnt ask for a roll back.Your decision was just a natural and expected one.

 

[KashifAsrar]

Aren't you from India? Why should you bother how A.Q. Khan is treated or not treated. And we in this side of the border already knew what Musharraf was like all throughout.

We on this side of the border are humans as well siri. We all know about Musharraf that's sure but to tell it clearly, how he is, is not bad either. If any such treatmnet occurs in India to any scientist then what would be our response? Scale should be same for all, be it with a Pakistani or Indian, because we are INDIANS.
Kashif

 

[Srirangan]

We on this side of the border are humans as well siri. We all know about Musharraf that's sure but to tell it clearly, how he is, is not bad either. If any such treatmnet occurs in India to any scientist then what would be our response? Scale should be same for all, be it with a Pakistani or Indian, because we are INDIANS.
Kashif

Kinda. But everybody is just as crooked mate. If Mushy is in mud, so is Nawaz and so is A.Q. Khan. I won't shed any tears, I'll just tell it like it is.
:-\

 

[KashifAsrar]

bro,

to be traitor you have to commit treason.........i would not say the following but for exceptional strong attack on my hero....which deserves a proper response.

It is no secret that before Iran and NK ( north korea ) entered the nuclear scene...it was Pakistan’s nuclear program which was the target of the west.....to dismantle which they subjected a poor nations of 160 million souls to sanctions....second only to iraq in harshness............what did the elite of Pakistan defense establishment do....in order to get out of this trap and lock in which the west was holding the Pakistani nation?????

they came up with the strategy of giving the west something besides Pakistan's nuclear program to worry about.......to carry out this strategy what did our great brave leaders of the military do??? they gather around a Giant who had delivered on an earlier national project...i.e. Dr A Q Khan. It is not for anything that Mushy has called Dr A Q Khan his personal hero ( yes after firing him ). Hence they acceded to Iran's request....iran was already in the bad books of the west....any nuclear ambitions on its part would immediately take away the west from Pakistan’s head on to the Iranians.....on top of that they were paying cash......which was shared among all the participants.......If the military is really clean and had no clue or hand in what was going on.....lets have an audit of accounts of generals of the army 1990-2006.....can they explain where they got the money to buy;

Mansions in Pakistan and abroad?
were able to dish out 30 Lakh ( 3 Million rupees ) per year MSc course of his one child....imagine the one that has more than one kids?
Not to mention the private education of his kids....whos school fees equal the total offical salary of the serving general?

So this was the motive for giving technology to iran......yes iran paid cash for it....but that was secondary benefit.........look at the world situation now??? is anyone talking about roll back pakistan nuclear program??? are they not all obsessed with iranian nuclear program???? how did this come about....remember too the sanctions of 1990-2001 against pakistan in an attempt to roll back pakistan nuclear program.

Is this treason to you?????? taking the heat of the nation and getting the enemies of Pakistan off its back and obsessed with another nation....but the time they finish with that nation they will be considerably occupied with other worries....specially NK,

Lets look at NK......we were cash strapped and had no means of buying missiles that could make our nuclear detterent credible........we gave them nuke tech and bought a proven missile system.......what greed was involved on part of Dr Qadeer in buying a missile system for pakistan???? is this treason??? once we got Ghuari system from NK...it put pressure on china to give the shaheen system to Samar Bhai at NDC....and it did....except shaheen missile had jinx which needed sorting out....shaheen was set to be tested first......it was...except the test failed.......in a panic the powers that govern pak....turned to Qadeer and asked him to test his NK system...to see if it works or comes up a dude like shaheen's first test.....with the grace of God Krl scientists under Qadeer had perfected the technology...and Ghuari came up trumps...making the nation proud. Are these acts of a traitor??? If Ghuari had not been tested the suspicions of nuke technology transfer to NK would always have been just that. However due to the failure of shaheen....Ghauri had to be tested and was....while Samar bhai went back to the drawing board and fixed shaheen problem and successfully firing it 11 months after Ghuari.

Had a more intelligent person been in control instead of Musharaf....he would have countered Tennet....telling him bluntly what the hell is your problem...even if we did share some technology with any country....its not like your country gave us technology....we built it with our own prowess and own it.....you ( CIA ) and your country are even right now busy trying to undermine our national security and trying to harm our strategic assets....your country has a declared hostility to our nuclear program....you've starved my nation for 10 years in order to deprive us of this capability.......with what face are you trying to tell me this????take these papers and shove them where the sun doesnot shine. End of the story.

Instead of this what did Mushy do???? like the threat of armitage...he simply rolled over onto his belly and started to crawl infront of the very people who are trying to pick apart our nuclear program.

Once he came into the western spell and propaganda....he began to persecute our national hero.....He didnot even stop to think that...Dr A Q Khan had not even breached a single law of the land ( remember mushy putting in place legislation after this event )......This even stuns the westerners....because they know....but for mushy's stupidity....there can be no crime in the absence of a law ( a fundamental principle of european jurisprudence )...and since there was no law in place...Dr A Q Khan cannot be prosecuted internally.......on the international level Pakistan is not signatory to NPT.....so pakistan on the international level didnot breach any agreement or law either.

Dr Qadeer had published two papers on the centrifuge design...one on constructing them from miraging steel instead of urenco aluminium and secondly on the itching of bearing in the centrifuges....these papers appeared in international scientific journals....rest of the knowledge concerning centrifuges was also in the public arena...being with all the western countries that were part of urenco ( from where pakistan got its design to start off with )..........so there was nothing shared that could reasonably be presented to court as national secret.......mushy is a na-laiq person..how is he to understand such complexities of law.....all he is good at is doing chores for his western masters and getting a pat on the back in return.


But since asim bro you did bring treason into the question, which even mushy dare not; let me explain to you legally what treason is?



1.Declaring war on the state of Pakistan via coup on 12 Oct 1999.
2.Violating his oath to declare war on the state of Pakistan.
3. Holding in abeyance the constitution of the State.
4.Unlawful interference in the service of Supreme court--forced premature retirement of Chief Justice and other justices both of supreme court and high courts who refused to go along with unlawfull abrogation of constitutional oaths they had sworn to.
5. Unlawfully imposing a pathetic mickey mouse PCO in place of the constitution.
6.Imposing war on the nation without prior express consent of the state ( Kargil )
7. Unlawfully detaining serving Prime Minster of Pakistan.
8. Revealing state secrets particularly regarding to nuclear assets.
9.Unlawfully and in breach of the constitution holding the office of President.
10.unlawful meddling in the affairs AJK...forcibly abrogating AJK constitution.
11. Went back on his promise to shed his Unifrom by 31 Dec 2004.
12. sale of Pakistanis person in liue of cash...his own addmissions...who were tortured abroad before being freed..without charge.
13.Abrogation of Legal system in order to sell pakistanis abroad to CIA
14.Holding in unlawful incommunocado detention of numerous private and many army personal, specially those beloging to ISI to please foreign masters i.e. CIA.

Musharaf is guilty without doubt of all the above, hence he dare not shed his uniform.

Brilliant narration dear.
Take a pat on your back from me.:army:
Keep it up.
Any answers Asim?
Kashif

 

[Neo]

In the line of fire and Dr A Q KhanIn his book, In the line of fire, President Musharraf makes some very serious allegations regarding Dr A Q Khan's network. He says that Dr Khan had advised his daughter, who lives in the UK, to disclose the country's nuclear secrets to the British media. This, he said, was contained in a letter that Dr Khan had sent to his daughter but which was intercepted by Pakistani intelligence agencies. The president claims further that another intercepted letter that Dr Khan had sent to Iran contained advice that Tehran should not under any circumstance mention his (Dr Khan's) name to the International Atomic Energy Agency adding that he had advised that if at all, names of dead people should be given. The president also claims that Dr Khan told Iran to renounce the NPT after which he would provide more assistance to it.

The president also mentions in some detail what led his government to begin an investigation into the alleged nuclear-proliferation network. In rather dramatic fashion worthy of perhaps a spy thriller, he writes, in 2003 during a visit to the UN general assembly, CIA director George Tenet met him in his hotel room to provide him direct evidence in the form of detailed drawings of Pakistan's P-1 centrifuges -- documents that normally should never have been in the hands of a foreign intelligence service. On the issue of Dr Khan's personality, the president makes some telling but harsh remarks. He said the man, publicly perceived as the father of Pakistan's atomic bomb, possessed "a great talent for self-promotion and publicity and led the public to believe that he was building the bomb almost single-handedly. He was such a self-centred and abrasive man that he could not be a team player… He had a huge ego, and he knew the art of playing to the gallery and manipulating the media". However, the interesting, or should one say ironic, part about these remarks is that even if the president's opinion of Dr Khan was accepted as being close to the truth, much of the reason why the country thought that he was the father of the country's nuclear programme is because of the way he was projected by the government-owned media and also indirectly by the military itself.

The book also says that Dr Khan managed to ship 18 tons of nuclear-related equipment out of the country. On this the president was asked in detail during an interview that he gave to CBS with the interviewer repeatedly asking him how could such a large amount of equipment leave a closely-guarded nuclear installation without the military or the government's knowledge. The president explained this by saying that this must have been done in several separate shipments and also implied that Dr Khan had considerable authority over the security of his laboratories to be able to order guards to let such materials pass. Surely, Dr Khan's admirers -- and there are many of them in the country – will take issue with these remarks and at the very least a controversy is bound to heat up in the coming days. However, this is not to say that there aren't people in this country -- albeit in a very small minority -- who might concur with the president's view (mostly anti-nuclear activists, pacifists, socialists, etc.). General Musharraf also seems to be distancing his and previous governments as well as the military as an institution from any semblance of involvement in nuclear proliferation. Whether his book will lay to rest lingering doubts on this matter -- particularly in the US where some members of the US Congress aided by Washington think-tanks believe otherwise -- remains to be seen. Also, we have not heard Dr Khan's side of the story so far. And given the present circumstances -- certainly no book deal is going to be forthcoming for him -- that is unlikely to happen at any time in the near future.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=26032

 

[Jag]

Besides the chief accusators, Bush and Tennet seem to be satisfied with Pakistan over its handling of AQ Khan.

Sure, if this was not for Al-Qaida. Just watch once the business is over all the dirt will be thrown back on Pakistan.

 

[baqai]

you people MIGHT want to see a documentry by CBS ( CBC ? ) named NUCLEAR JIHAD

 

[MastanKhan]

KashifA,

AQKhan didnot provide the necessary technology for the pakistani nuclear program. What would a metallurgist know about nuclear physics? Pakistan's nuclear program was way ahead before AQ joined. So if Musharraf stated what he did----there is nothing wrong with it--.

 

[Jag]

The way I see it, this poor guy AQK is innocent, he acted in the interest of Pakistan, simple logic is that he could have not done it alone, what you think you can take C-130 out of Pak airspace without anyone knowing it, or for any personal use if AQK used PAF and defense have not clue of why? makes no sense, doesn't matter how big shot you maybe its can't go unnoticed, now just because Mushy was under pressure that Pak dealing with rogue state (US Named) was proved he had to find someone to talk that responsibility, and AOK was used, just imagine if it was not AQK, then who, Mushy himself and that he would not let it happen?.

 

[Skeptic786]

The way I see it, this poor guy AQK is innocent, he acted in the interest of Pakistan, simple logic is that he could have not done it alone, what you think you can take C-130 out of Pak airspace without anyone knowing it, or for any personal use if AQK used PAF and defense have not clue of why? makes no sense, doesn't matter how big shot you maybe its can't go unnoticed, now just because Mushy was under pressure that Pak dealing with rogue state (US Named) was proved he had to find someone to talk that responsibility, and AOK was used, just imagine if it was not AQK, then who, Mushy himself and that he would not let it happen?.

Dr A Q Khan....did say in the pre-recorded message which was telecast to the nation as Dr Qadeer's apology to the nation....."whatever was done...was done in good faith". If mushy had any issues he should have brought them up then...instead of causing severe heartache to all pakistanis that consider Dr A Q Khan...a living legend...A Giant of our Age.......i thank God many times in a day i was born in the time of Dr A Q Khan.......SuperSpy,Metullargist,Nuclear Scientist,Brilliant Manager,Missile Man, Unashamed Pakistani Patriot...you donot have to read anything a pakistani says about him....most of my knowledge comes from Western sources....latest comprehensive study of the man was done by an american for the american elite and published in Atlantic Monthly......read its 8 Part......"The Wrath of Khan".

 

[Spring Onion]

Lets put aside everything if he did transffer the stuff nothing wrong as all the nuclear powers have made it thorugh black marketting. had any country ever accepted that she got the stuff directly from a government for going nulcear.

And also nothign wrong if AQ khan saves the nation in any role .

 

[Bull]

Lets put aside everything if he did transffer the stuff nothing wrong as all the nuclear powers have made it thorugh black marketting. had any country ever accepted that she got the stuff directly from a government for going nulcear..

Elaborate please!!!Just bcoz a **** did it doesnt make it a global phenomenon!!!

And also nothign wrong if AQ khan saves the nation in any role .

Well,he pakistan soon will have four nuclear armed neighbours in Russia,China,India and Iran.Its not a enviable position.

 

[Spring Onion]

Elaborate please!!!Just bcoz a **** did it doesnt make it a global phenomenon!!!



Come on Bull do u think it needs eleboration.

Well,he pakistan soon will have four nuclear armed neighbours in Russia,China,India and Iran.Its not a enviable position.

U dint understand what i said

but anyway even if AQ dint help them Iran was going to be nuclear its a fact and India also has been involved in helping Iran, it was just recntly when she was offered nuke deal by US India started objectiing to Iran's nuke plans.

Some Indian Cos have been banned by US recently in connection with helping Iran.

 

[Skeptic786]

Elaborate please!!!Just bcoz a **** did it doesnt make it a global phenomenon!!!

it does make it global phenomenon;

USA proliferated to UK ( Even if UK scientists were there in the manhatten project...i am reffering to giving them the advanced polaris/Trident nuclear missiles which UK never had)


France....proliferated to Israel....israeli technology is bought from france.

UK...proliferated to Israel..unlawfull sale of Heavy water for the nuclear reator.

UK has proliferated to Holland and Germany...two undeclared nuclear states....but they are good as nuclear..since they can build the bomb within days so to speak....having enriched uranium on their soil all the time from urenco activities...which sells enriched uranium to civilian reactors.

Russia......proliferated to China///but withdraw midway due to border clashes...forcing chinese to finish the job on their own.

Canada....proliferated to india....built the turn-key reactor for the indians despite knowing they would take plutonium from the reactor to build the bomb that was tested in 1974. They did just that.

After 1974 nuclear tests....russians stepped into fill the gap of canadians....knowing that india had a nuclear weaponistion program.

Do we need to research as to where south africa and brazil taken their technology from before rolling back their nuclear weaponisations programs?

If this is not global then what is???

 

[Salahuddin]

There is no legal evidence to prove that Libya, Iran, North
Korea, Iraq, Malaysia, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, or Saudi Arabia
received any "nuclear weapons material, know-how, contraband
Pakistani bomb designs or equipment" from the Government of Pakistan,
its military or its nuclear scientists.

The "U.S. or other foreign investigators" have absolutely no legal
right to question or interrogate Pakistan's honorable and respectable
nuclear scientist Dr. Abdul Qadeer Khan because there are no Pakistan
or international laws that would allow them to do so. Pakistan never
signed the discriminatory Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), the
Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty (CTBT) and the Fissile
Materials Production Cut-Off Treaty (FMCT). Dr. Khan was not "the
director of the largest smuggling network for nuclear weapons
material and know-how in history." He was the Director of Dr. A.Q.
Khan Research Laboratories (KRL) based in Kahuta, Pakistan. Dr. Khan
and other eminent Pakistani nuclear scientists created Pakistan's
nuclear weapons defense deterrent to protect the Pakistani Nation
from its enemies. Dr. Khan did not indulge in any kind of "illegal
nuclear smuggling." He did not violate any Pakistan or international
laws. He did not commit any crime. Therefore, "the largest smuggling
network for nuclear weapons material and know-how in history" is a
fabricated, defamatory expletive and a malicious, racist slur.

International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) Director General Dr.
Mohamed ElBaradei has pointed out in his interview of 27 July 2004
with Mustafa Abdalla of Egypt's Al-Ahram Arabic daily newspaper:

"First of all, I would like to point out that there is a lot of
confusion about the IAEA's authority with regard to Israel. The
Agency has no inspection authority in Israel, except with regard to a
small research reactor. As is the case with India, Pakistan and the
five nuclear states, we have no legal authority to perform
inspections in Israel. I agree that the Israeli military nuclear
program is a cause of great concern in the Middle East and in the
world as a whole. For over thirty years, Israel has been urged to
join the nuclear non-proliferation regime. We must understand,
however, that the nuclear non-proliferation regime is a voluntary
regime. Israel, India and Pakistan have not acceded to the Nuclear
Non-Proliferation Treaty [NPT]. As [IAEA] Director General and as an
international civil servant, my authority with regard to these states
[Pakistan, India, Israel, USA, UK, France, Russia and China] is
basically moral and political, rather than legal."