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Good thing that Israel is co-operating more with India now, its been the victim of the same sort of terrorism that we've had to endure. We can use their help given their extensive experience in this field.

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Israel victim. Hahaha. Israel taken arab land by force with the help of USA and British. If someone take your home tomorrow by force what wil you do. And now Israel is expanding its boarders illegally. Do a research before calling anybody a terrorist or a victim.
 
My friend, go ask your chemistry and physics 10th grade teacher to explain you if at 1200 degree centigrade, a 757 jet with all of its passengers and two turbo fan engines got evaporated and yet DNAs of all the passengers that gets destroyed at above 300 degrees remained intact. You need to have 1/4th of intellect to reach conclusions but I guess you are born will full brain.
Being Indian don't mean you stop accepting realities and denying faction on ground.

You love Russia? read the statement of Russian Prime Minster about 9/11 for the sake of enlightenment.

I am sure you must have consulted your class teacher to reach this brilliant conclusion of yours.

These sort of conspiracy theories do not need even 1/4 of intellect, some measure of dumbness would do however.

You do realize that going by the small sample of posters here, your countrymen are the most ardent believers in these theories, and belief in such theories points to inability to accept realities.
 
Neither I am anti Pakistan not anti Muslim. I have utter respect for Muslims. Pakistan does not speak for all Muslims. We have enough muslims within India and even in Pakistan whom I relate with. No one is doubting with Pakistan's efforts against Taliban. They have done a great job. But at the other end there have been groups based in Pakistan which have been responsible for terrorism within India. I am relating to them


Let is a group based in Pakistan and has been involved with terrorism activities within India. Every third day there are reports of LeT operatives being caught. Cross border filtration is nothing new.


And also Pakistan government has itself accepted that terrorism had been the part of state affairs in the past.

I guess this post go out the window and my previous post that you posted a response, stills stands. ISI has always have defended Pakistan sovereignty against terrorists, and you are just look for a blame to continue this falsehood and anti-pakistan stance.
ISI is not a terrorist branch and has not involved in any sort of activity that will jeopardise Pakistan existence. Pakistan Officials may said that terrorists may exsists but then the terrorist may not be Muslim (as you quietly wanted to hint) Lets not forget RAWs involvment in south asia - and could well be that RAW are based in Pakistan to cause such problems its not the first time they have done this either !

http://blog.taragana.com/n/india-us...to-destabilize-pakistan-former-isi-dg-152512/

http://www.prisonplanet.com/indian-involvement-in-the-mumbai-attacks.html


RAW behind the Tamil Tigers terrorist group:




And check this rubbish out:

"Now we know who our Indian media works for they are talking to the terrorist live on national televsion in India. How can we be talking to the terrorists? Secondly the accent is like Musharraf it seems like the terrorist talking in this video is mocking Musharraf accent it seems fake and he said certain words incorrectly if you look closely. it is clear that our Indian media has links to the terrorist and that besides the Indian army that funds the terrorists our media is also involved. Another clip I have shows how one terrorist let a media man go through and did not shoot him. How can our media get so much evidence in no time after the attack before the inquiry took place? It is all a fraud to make Pakistan blamed so that they can be under more pressure and USA can start to attack them. I feel sorry for my Pakistani friends they took me to Pakistan to show me Indian officers under cover operating there. The world needs to realize we will go into a unnecessary nuclear war with Pakistan unless we stop these lies against Pakistan. BJP officers caught exporting terrorism by Indian officer. RAW (Indian army) agents have also been caught in Pakistan"




ANother group of Peolpe who gave their lives fighting against terrorists, ISI are one group that will defend Pakistan against terrorists
Your Logic is madness and insulting yet again .
 
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I guess this post go out the window and my previous post that you posted a response, stills stands. ISI has always have defended Pakistan sovereignty against terrorists, and you are just look for a blame to continue this falsehood and anti-pakistan stance.
ISI is not a terrorist branch and has not involved in any sort of activity that will jeopardise Pakistan existence. Pakistan Officials may said that terrorists may exsists but then the terrorist may not be Muslim (as you quietly wanted to hint) Lets not forget RAWs involvment in south asia - and could well be that RAW are based in Pakistan to cause such problems its not the first time they have done this either !

ANother group of Peolpe who gave their lives fighting against terrorists, ISI are one group that will defend Pakistan against terrorists
Your Logic is madness and insulting yet again .

There is no problem till ISI is involved within Pakistan to curb down terrorism within Pakistan. Pakistan is their country and they have right to do so within Pakistan. And i respect the martyrs of Pakistan fighting against terror.

The problem arises when it tries supporting the terrorism activities within India. This can be easily googled various independent western media where it has been blamed for terrorism within India.
 
I guess this post go out the window and my previous post that you posted a response, stills stands. ISI has always have defended Pakistan sovereignty against terrorists, and you are just look for a blame to continue this falsehood and anti-pakistan stance.
ISI is not a terrorist branch and has not involved in any sort of activity that will jeopardise Pakistan existence. Pakistan Officials may said that terrorists may exsists but then the terrorist may not be Muslim (as you quietly wanted to hint) Lets not forget RAWs involvment in south asia - and could well be that RAW are based in Pakistan to cause such problems its not the first time they have done this either !

India, US, Israel involved in a ‘nexus’ to destabilize Pakistan: Former ISI DG

Alex Jones’ Prison Planet.com Indian involvement in the Mumbai attacks


RAW behind the Tamil Tigers terrorist group:

[url="
- Indian Army & RAW Train Tamil Tiger [LTTE] Terrorists [EXPOSED][/url]


[url="
- Alex Jones American Analyst Exposing Mumbai Attacks[/url]

And check this rubbish out:
[url="
- Look Our Indian media talking to the Mumbai terrrorists[/url]

"Now we know who our Indian media works for they are talking to the terrorist live on national televsion in India. How can we be talking to the terrorists? Secondly the accent is like Musharraf it seems like the terrorist talking in this video is mocking Musharraf accent it seems fake and he said certain words incorrectly if you look closely. it is clear that our Indian media has links to the terrorist and that besides the Indian army that funds the terrorists our media is also involved. Another clip I have shows how one terrorist let a media man go through and did not shoot him. How can our media get so much evidence in no time after the attack before the inquiry took place? It is all a fraud to make Pakistan blamed so that they can be under more pressure and USA can start to attack them. I feel sorry for my Pakistani friends they took me to Pakistan to show me Indian officers under cover operating there. The world needs to realize we will go into a unnecessary nuclear war with Pakistan unless we stop these lies against Pakistan. BJP officers caught exporting terrorism by Indian officer. RAW (Indian army) agents have also been caught in Pakistan"




ANother group of Peolpe who gave their lives fighting against terrorists, ISI are one group that will defend Pakistan against terrorists
Your Logic is madness and insulting yet again .

Sir the links which you gave are just blogs. and the views of Mr. Alex Jones have the same credibility as that of Zaid Hamid. You can better search for Zaid Hamid and you will find better shows and allegations and yes not to forget Ajmal Kasab is Amar Singh

Secondly this video has been discussed like hell in other threads so you can refer them. There is no point of reinventing the wheel again and again.
 
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Sir the links which you gave are just blogs. and the views of Mr. Alex Jones have the same credibility as that of Zaid Hamid. You can better search for Zaid Hamid and you will find better shows and allegations and yes not to forget Ajmal Kasab is Amar Singh

Secondly this video has been discussed like hell in other threads so you can refer them. There is no point of reinventing the wheel again and again.

Excatly both have credible evidence of India agency involving terror attacks on Pakistan and other nation around Asia unlike its IBN source that tend to reports rubbish incidents and spin lies to fabricate a wet dream for Hindus
It absolutely safe to say that the exsitance of ISI ensure the peace, stabilty and safe gaurdness against such evil terrorists acts from agence like RAW and the people who protect them in Asia, Israel and indeed the world.

There is no point of reinventing the wheel again and again.

Yes Its nice to know that you took this line from many people who tried to tell you to quit the bullshit that you like to smother around this forum,
 
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Well, here's what bothers me about this whole thing.

According to the Pakistani government:
- India blamed Pakistan right away (expected); Pakistan immediately offered to help in the investigation, but India rejected the offer.
- the evidence to Pakistan was initially submitted in marathi.
- eventually the translated evidence was submitted, but piecemeal.
- final evidence was not submitted several months after.

Now either the Pakistani government is lying about all this, or the Indian authorities have been dragging their feet. I don't know who is telling the truth, but I don't see a motive for Pakistan to keep prolonging this matter. It hurts Pakistan internationally and in bilateral talks with India.

So, I feel there is something fishy going on here.

Develpereo......although I feel that your above "doubts" do not really qualify as evidence of India trying to cover its deeds, however if thats what you're implying, then please read below for the outlook from the Indian side:

1. In India and Pakistan mudslinging is very common, and pointing fingers at Pakistan immediately was rather wrong, however you have to understand that the whole nation had become quite intense and emotional over the incident. It is only expected that you first blame the country that is your long standing enemy and has supported such actions in the past.....
However I can understand your concern if the accusations were proven wrong, but they werent....so I dont see why thats fishy?
Secondly, why would we hold a joint investigation with Pak? When you suspect the involvement of a country with a massacre such as 26/11, you dont just hand over key evidence to the one that you're acccusing.....That would be rather stupid dont u think??
By providing you with the evidence, and involving Pak agencies, we would give you guys a chance to cover your arses and get rid of any trails etc........

2. Marathi is the local language of Maharashtra and Mumbai. All legal documents are prepared in sets of 3, Hindi, Marathi and English. Not all members of our armed forces, administration etc are well versed with English.....hence the documentation had a Marathi version as well.....Which was irresponsibly sent to Pak as a Dossier....
Now I completely agree with you that this is a sign of complete inefficiency by the Indian agencies, but no how does it imply that India was trying to cover up something......
Please tell me what made you think this was an attempt to cover up?

3. As far as In remember, the translated version was given as a whole and not in parts. I havent read any reports on that, so any article or story would be helpful.

4. The actual evidence is something one bases their case on. It needs to be protected and analyzed thoroughly before it is sent to the party that is being accused. India needed time to build its case, make all accusations thorough and involve neutral 3rd parties to verify the claim it made. Plus providing the evidence to Pak right away would only give them a heads up and try to botch leads or give key involved members to escape from Pak before action could be taken, thus allowing Pak to wash their hands of the entire matter.....
If Im not mistaken, Pak claims that one of the accused is not in Pak, but India says otherwise.....I dont care about who's right or wrong, but this is an example of the above.....

Now let me ask, if the govt. of Pakistan has accepted the claims made by India.....
Why are you in denial??? Is this a shocking revelation that there is militancy in Pakistan??
Accept that Pakistani soil was used to plan an attack on India and move on.......Denial and conspiracy theories floated by some members here just make the whole incident seem like a joke and lives lost trivial......
Trust me, Indians wont take this lightly!!!
 
Indians arent concerned what happens in Pakistan FYI,

On the contrary.
India's patriotism and unity is built on the back of Pakistan-bashing.

Oh, we dont need much time to analyze your national affairs, we already know how you think

Your understanding, or lack thereof, of our national affairs and judicial process suggests that you need to spend "much time". Much, much, much time.

Yeah we all know how effective your independent judiciary is. The track record of bringing terrorists responsible for attacks in Pakistan to book is sterling! Oh the envy!

Our judicial system does not play up to the media.
Unlike India's.

How would such a judiciary with such an enviable track record accept 'flimsy/bollywoodisque' evidence

Indeed; hence the need for us to do proper investigations and make up for the sloppy job done by Indian "investigators".

gathered by lowly agencies who have nabbed and successfully prosecuted many a terrorists!

By obtaining Ajmal Kasab type "confessions", no doubt.

The outcome of this sham of a trial is a forgone conclusion.

This is not a Bollywood movie, where the ending is predictable in advance.
It is a serious criminal investigation and the decision will be based on the evidence, not on Indian media hysteria.

Dont you regret creating talibys in the first place?

TTP is a monster created by RAW/Afghans, not Pakistan.

Soundbites to place domestic population/outrage.

Look who's talking.
Indian media thrives on nonsense, jingoistic soundbites.

You do realize that going by the small sample of posters here, your countrymen are the most ardent believers in these theories, and belief in such theories points to inability to accept realities.

You do realize that this is Pakistan defence forum, so it will have a disproportionate number of Pakistanis on it?

I have seen some pretty dumb statements on this forum, but yours stands in a league of its own.
 
1. In India and Pakistan mudslinging is very common, and pointing fingers at Pakistan immediately was rather wrong, however you have to understand that the whole nation had become quite intense and emotional over the incident. It is only expected that you first blame the country that is your long standing enemy and has supported such actions in the past.....However I can understand your concern if the accusations were proven wrong, but they werent....so I dont see why thats fishy?

Given the facts available at the time, it was a very irresponsible statement on the part of the Indian government.

Secondly, why would we hold a joint investigation with Pak? When you suspect the involvement of a country with a massacre such as 26/11, you dont just hand over key evidence to the one that you're acccusing.....That would be rather stupid dont u think??
By providing you with the evidence, and involving Pak agencies, we would give you guys a chance to cover your arses and get rid of any trails etc........

I acknowledge the level of mistrust, but denying involvement to Pakistan's top security agencies means that India suspects complicity at the highest level. That is a very serious accusation -- one that India hasn't made as far as I know -- but I can understand the Indian resistance.

2. Marathi is the local language of Maharashtra and Mumbai. All legal documents are prepared in sets of 3, Hindi, Marathi and English. Not all members of our armed forces, administration etc are well versed with English.....hence the documentation had a Marathi version as well.....Which was irresponsibly sent to Pak as a Dossier....
Now I completely agree with you that this is a sign of complete inefficiency by the Indian agencies, but no how does it imply that India was trying to cover up something......

I am afraid I don't buy this at all.

This was not some village clerk, third class, sending off a routine farm report. This was THE criminal investigation in India at the time, with India's top cops at work. You simply do not make such a ridiculous mistake.

3. As far as In remember, the translated version was given as a whole and not in parts. I havent read any reports on that, so any article or story would be helpful.

Reuters AlertNet - India gives Pakistan new evidence on Mumbai - TV

21 Aug 2009 14:04:26 GMT
Source: Reuters
NEW DELHI, Aug 21 (Reuters) - India gave Pakistan on Friday a new dossier of evidence to prosecute Hafiz Saeed, the suspected mastermind of the three-day carnage that killed 166 people in Mumbai in November, television channels said.

What the h*ll was India waiting for? Why wasn't this evidemce provided until Pakistan asked for it?

4. The actual evidence is something one bases their case on. It needs to be protected and analyzed thoroughly before it is sent to the party that is being accused. India needed time to build its case, make all accusations thorough and involve neutral 3rd parties to verify the claim it made. Plus providing the evidence to Pak right away would only give them a heads up and try to botch leads or give key involved members to escape from Pak before action could be taken, thus allowing Pak to wash their hands of the entire matter.....

How can India accuse Pakistan of dragging its feet when it knows that it hasn't provided them all the evidence?

It also makes one wonder if the evidence provided to Pakistan is the same as the evidence provided to third parties.

Now let me ask, if the govt. of Pakistan has accepted the claims made by India.....
Why are you in denial??? Is this a shocking revelation that there is militancy in Pakistan??
Accept that Pakistani soil was used to plan an attack on India and move on.......

I don't think anybody is questioning that Pakistani nationals were involved and the attack may even have been planned in Pakistan. The doubts I have are related to the issues we are dicussing, which still leaves me unconvinced that India is telling all that it knows.

I can also play devil's advocate and say that India is releasing evidence only after it has cleared its (RAW's) tracks in the matter. Paranoia goes both ways.
 
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Given the facts available at the time, it was a very irresponsible statement on the part of the Indian government.



I acknowledge the level of mistrust, but denying involvement to Pakistan's top security agencies means that India suspects complicity at the highest level. That is a very serious accusation -- one that India hasn't made as far as I know -- but I can understand the Indian resistance.



I am afraid I don't buy this at all.

This was not some village clerk, third class, sending off a routine farm report. This was THE criminal investigation in India at the time, with India's top cops at work. You simply do not make such a ridiculous mistake.



Reuters AlertNet - India gives Pakistan new evidence on Mumbai - TV

21 Aug 2009 14:04:26 GMT
Source: Reuters
NEW DELHI, Aug 21 (Reuters) - India gave Pakistan on Friday a new dossier of evidence to prosecute Hafiz Saeed, the suspected mastermind of the three-day carnage that killed 166 people in Mumbai in November, television channels said.

What the h*ll was India waiting for? Why wasn't this evidemce provided until Pakistan asked for it?



How can India accuse Pakistan of dragging its feet when it knows that it hasn't provided them all the evidence?

It also makes one wonder if the evidence provided to Pakistan is the same as the evidence provided to third parties.



I don't think anybody is questioning that Pakistani nationals were involved and the attack may even have been planned in Pakistan. The doubts I have are related to the issues we are dicussing, which still leaves me unconvinced that India is telling all that it knows.

I agree with not all but majority of your points but you need to understand few couple of things.

see initial level has already been provided to pakistan. Evidences and conviction takes some time to form. It takes time to gather them scrrutinize them and then present them. not everything which is found is creditable so it takes time in scrutiny and since the already provided evidence is not sufficient then it will take some more time for the agencies to gather more of them. Evidences are not sold in some market which you can purchase. there are trails which needs to be followed.

Secondly sharing of actual evidences with Pakistan, on the part there is slight possibility which you also cannot deny that Pakistani agencies might be involved. I am not accusing them I am talking about the possibilities. It would be more like giving the evidences in the hands of thieves. So there is reluctance about sharing them directly with Pakistan and third parties are getting involved.

I belive this answers your question.
 
see initial level has already been provided to pakistan. Evidences and conviction takes some time to form. It takes time to gather them scrrutinize them and then present them. not everything which is found is creditable so it takes time in scrutiny and since the already provided evidence is not sufficient then it will take some more time for the agencies to gather more of them. Evidences are not sold in some market which you can purchase. there are trails which needs to be followed.

So you admit that evidence is obtained and released piecemeal. The Indian authorities should come clean and explain this to the Indian public instead of giving the impression that they gave an air-tight case to the Pakistani government long ago.

The Indian authorities should stop their self-righteous chest thumping and falsely accusing Pakistan of dragging its feet.

Secondly sharing of actual evidences with Pakistan, on the part there is slight possibility which you also cannot deny that Pakistani agencies might be involved. I am not accusing them I am talking about the possibilities. It would be more like giving the evidences in the hands of thieves. So there is reluctance about sharing them directly with Pakistan and third parties are getting involved.

If you withhold evidence, then how can you expect a legitimate court case to reach your desired verdict?

This again brings up the question of whether the evidence provided to Pakistan is the same evidence that was provided to third parties. If it is not, then you can't blame Pakistan.
 
So you admit that evidence is obtained and released piecemeal. The Indian authorities should come clean and explain this to the Indian public instead of giving the impression that they gave an air-tight case to the Pakistani government long ago.

The Indian authorities should stop their self-righteous chest thumping and falsely accusing Pakistan of dragging its feet.



If you withhold evidence, then how can you expect a legitimate court case to reach your desired verdict?

This again brings up the question of whether the evidence provided to Pakistan is the same evidence that was provided to third parties. If it is not, then you can't blame Pakistan.

see the evidence itself is strong enough to execute the convicts as per Indians. but Pakistan things they want more then they will have to wait for the trail. If that was not enough then the world would have not accepted it as legitimate. Indians are not that great that everyone accepts what ever India says as word of mouth.

So we I am no one to comment on this GOI will definitely be working out with the solution for sharing of evidence with its preservation. This is the sole reason why it is taking time.
 
evidence?

Indian home ministry clearly made a statement saying enough evidence has been provided to detain and interrogate hafiz saeed... now do members here believe without any solid evidence, UN would have tagged saeed as terrorist?
The Attack was Planned in Pakistan and executed by Pakistani Nationals.. Now as per Investigations, with whatever resources to collect data in foreign land and with help from Intelligence agencies of other countries, Investigators zeroed down on Hafiz saeed as prime suspect.

What India wants?
India Wants Pakistan to Interrogate Saeed and further carry out investigation on 26/11, collect evidence on who were the people involved and who were those handlers, zero down on these culprits and punish them.

What Pakistan has been doing?
Patiently exploring those dossiers shared and collecting loopholes.
No Action taken in these 10 months.
Blowing the horn of evidence... now how on earth can any investigation agency collect 100% evidence against a suspect sitting in foreign land?
 
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