Mullahism V/S Liberalism

[Iggy]

Dude i appreciate your good feelings for different religion and the way you treat them like your own but Hinduism/Islam and Christianity are not the same religion as they have different views about God, have different scriptures and method of praying is also different so i don't get it when a Hindu will come to mosque for praying or Muslim will go to temple for offering Salah.

Religion is not some natuki or tamasha. You may do such things to please your Hindu or Muslim friend but it don't make any sense if you look at it realistically. Would it make sense for someone to be non Muslim and have fasting in month of Ramdhan? I think it dont make any sense because fasting is for Muslims who believe in Allah and all of his attributes. Muslim are not hindu and hindu are not Muslim as many of their beliefs contradict to each others for example Muslims are monotheist and Hindus are polytheist. If all religion or God are same then why Hindu don't become Muslim or why some indian Muslim dont join Hinduism if all their God and prayingtuff s is same. I consider it just show off thing which some of these Bollywood celebrity do as well. I have hindu/sikhs friend here and we respect beliefs of each others without doing all this notunki

Mate, I am not asking any muslim to pray in a temple or do anything.. It all start with the the below quote

Islam is the most tolerant religion on earth !!!

As for me, I beg to differ..

I find Hinduism much more tolerant and flexible than any other religion..

We both, I mean Christians and Islam have some strict laws and methods of praying..

Hinduism I find it relatively easier way to worshiping and I have given those incidents as examples..

Praying and religion you follow is completely your personal matters.. I am no body to ask some one to follow my religion or any other religion..

I was never criticizing Islam or any other religion here..

I was asking the question that why some one think that they will have to denounce their god to respect other religion..

I never asked a Muslim to come to a temple, I said, Hindus find our God as another form of their god and have no problem praying in a Church or a Mosque.. I think all these got mixed up..

 

[Luftwaffe]

Well said...furthermore....
Mr.Luftwaffe,let me clear it out first to many others that why I have started this thread today?I am personally evident of this so-called mullahism,let me tell you that I am not criticizing Islam as Mr @RAMPAGE and others have misunderstood,but specific mindsets who have twisted actual Islam and blurred the very base of it.
Let me share this incident with you.
Once there was a kid whom I used to teach,so once,I asked him that why he changed his field after completing his intermediate with science?why is he doing BA?He replied that because his preacher told him that drawing pictures in Islam is haram.
I was very shocked,I replied:"verily it is forbidden to make **** statues and figures of alive beings,but for the sake of study like physiology and medical,zoology...it is not haram.
He replied:"My preacher told me that no need for it,when we will enter inside heaven then Allah will teach us,about all his creations,everything..."
After he left,I thought that how this mullahism has blurred and ruined Islamic teachings?
Tell me if everyone began to follow that incomplete conception like of his preacher then imagine,no one will become doctor in Pakistan,as we don't need to,we will learn in heaven
What do you suggest?shouldn't we suppose to stop such mindsets Mr.Luftwaffe?

It is either too late or extremely difficult in case of Pakistan to curb it. They have bori bags full of fatwas but non of them comes out to help common citizens regardless of race/religion have you seen these mullahs on eid e miladun nabi they collect chanda days before for beautification of masajids and other places but the actual message of Islam and Prophet was to spend and help people brainless people so how would you stop them how would stop them from visiting tombs, graves, babas, it is the duty of the State, the Ottomans were swift in punishment those who went extreme and dangerous we don't currently have such a government. So are the extreme liberalist who pick every hadith and verse and twist it to their liking and blame everything on Islam being outdated pre historic, just tell a liberalist about sharia and they shiver as if its something that's restrict their lives without even reading/understanding it...interestingly sharia is way different then what they perceive sharia was there at the time of Ottomans they prospered and progressed for a long time infact west actually got inspired.

To me its more like a problem with the society then getting educated only in either religious studies or social and other non religious education. We can blame mullahs but look at Jordan, saudi arab [in their own country not what they preach the other muslim ummah], oman, u.a.e, bahrain some of these country do have strict form of Islam and code and obviously versions of sharia yet they prospers and deal with the west and enjoy their lives much better and peacefully then say countries like Pakistan, afghanistan and a few other what could be the reason that mullahs are not so violent and somewhat extreme as in Pakistan they do have their liberal lot but they are a silent liberal lot unlike here who forces you the negative artificial liberalism upon you. For 66 years Pakistan went under both moderate-liberal and extremist rulers non had any impact to change the society positively this is an interesting subject why it doesn't work in Pakistan yet it works in other Nations even Iran is not that dangerous mullah as perceived more women are taking science classes they wear jeans there is no crackdown on it apart from certain things that too exist in saudi arab. In my view education needs to play its role liberals needs to get a good study of Islam and mullahs needs to study history when Islam was on the rise and shinning in all fields even so sharia existed.

 

[Slav Defence]

It is either too late or extremely difficult in case of Pakistan to curb it. They have bori bags full of fatwas but non of them comes out to help common citizens regardless of race/religion have you seen these mullahs on eid e miladun nabi they collect chanda days before for beautification of masajids and other places but the actual message of Islam and Prophet was to spend and help people brainless people so how would you stop them how would stop them from visiting tombs, graves, babas, it is the duty of the State, the Ottomans were swift in punishment those who went extreme and dangerous we don't currently have such a government. So are the extreme liberalist who pick every hadith and verse and twist it to their liking and blame everything on Islam being outdated pre historic, just tell a liberalist about sharia and they shiver as if its something that's restrict their lives without even reading/understanding it...interestingly sharia is way different then what they perceive sharia was there at the time of Ottomans they prospered and progressed for a long time infact west actually got inspired.

To me its more like a problem with the society then getting educated only in either religious studies or social and other non religious education. We can blame mullahs but look at Jordan, saudi arab [in their own country not what they preach the other muslim ummah], oman, u.a.e, bahrain some of these country do have strict form of Islam and code and obviously versions of sharia yet they prospers and deal with the west and enjoy their lives much better and peacefully then say countries like Pakistan, afghanistan and a few other what could be the reason that mullahs are not so violent and somewhat extreme as in Pakistan they do have their liberal lot but they are a silent liberal lot unlike here who forces you the negative artificial liberalism upon you. For 66 years Pakistan went under both moderate-liberal and extremist rulers non had any impact to change the society positively this is an interesting subject why it doesn't work in Pakistan yet it works in other Nations even Iran is not that dangerous mullah as perceived more women are taking science classes they wear jeans there is no crackdown on it apart from certain things that too exist in saudi arab. In my view education needs to play its role liberals needs to get a good study of Islam and mullahs needs to study history when Islam was on the rise and shinning in all fields even so sharia existed.

Yes well said,the extremism of everything is dangerous Mr.Luftwaffe,second our regime is itself corrupted and consisted of such people who themselves are illiterate and not interested in this regard,take example of fools like Rehman Malik,who is too dumb to know that how to recite Surah Ikhlaas
If our regime consists of best mindsets,then I dare to say that a lot will be changed,but we can only dream of it,sadly.

 

[Luftwaffe]

Yes well said,the extremism of everything is dangerous Mr.Luftwaffe,second our regime is itself corrupted and consisted of such people who themselves are illiterate and not interested in this regard,take example of fools like Rehman Malik,who is too dumb to know that how to recite Surah Ikhlaas
If our regime consists of best mindsets,then I dare to say that a lot will be changed,but we can only dream of it,sadly.

Well then the only course of Action should be liberals must study Islam and sharia without any biases being neutral and open minded and mullahs go back and study the history of Islam, lives of the Prophets and pious people afterwards, just rulers; I don't see these days mullah practice what they have been ordained to do to better the society apart from collecting chanda and halwa and a free shelter and not to forget bags of fatwa.

 

[asad71]

Munshi, Maulavi, Mulla, Maulana, and Allama are titles / designations that the Muslim society has been bestowing on the enlightened in varying degree. It is our fault that the Western media is able to make them subject of ridicule. Now even they are termed terrorists. Or anyone wearing our traditional attire as opposed to the western clothes, anyone sporting a beard or wearing a cap is subject of research to establish whether he is a terrorist. It is so sad. We should wake up, and stop laughing at ourselves so that others cannot join in. If this tendency is allowed to go unchallenged,then one day we might laugh at someone who has performed Hajj and is proud to be called a Haji.

 

[Slav Defence]

Well then the only course of Action should be liberals must study Islam and sharia without any biases being neutral and open minded and mullahs go back and study the history of Islam, lives of the Prophets and pious people afterwards, just rulers; I don't see these days mullah practice what they have been ordained to do to better the society apart from collecting chanda and halwa and a free shelter and not to forget bags of fatwa.

Yes I agree with you,both mindsets needs to revise the very base of their assumption by studying Islam and Quran again..

 

[truthseer]

Yes well said,the extremism of everything is dangerous Mr.Luftwaffe,second our regime is itself corrupted and consisted of such people who themselves are illiterate and not interested in this regard,take example of fools like Rehman Malik,who is too dumb to know that how to recite Surah Ikhlaas
If our regime consists of best mindsets,then I dare to say that a lot will be changed,but we can only dream of it,sadly.

Rehman Malik was a great man, you better realise it, these Mr.Beans can't replace him. He took on those TALIBAN single handed without fear of life.

 

[Slav Defence]

Munshi, Maulavi, Mulla, Maulana, and Allama are titles / designations that the Muslim society has been bestowing on the enlightened in varying degree. It is our fault that the Western media is able to make them subject of ridicule. Now even they are termed terrorists. Or anyone wearing our traditional attire as opposed to the western clothes, anyone sporting a beard or wearing a cap is subject of research to establish whether he is a terrorist. It is so sad. We should wake up, and stop laughing at ourselves so that others cannot join in. If this tendency is allowed to go unchallenged,then one day we might laugh at someone who has performed Hajj and is proud to be called a Haji.

Well said Mr.Asad,we are giving them chances to abuse our titles,by twisting and mis-representing Islamic concepts of our own.

 

[asad71]

Well said Mr.Asad,we are giving them chances to abuse our titles,by twisting and mis-representing Islamic concepts of our own.

Yes, we must protect / preserve our culture, systems, traditions and heritage instead of following everything Western blindly. Once we loose pride in what is ours, we will fall prey to the neocolonialist designs. We will loose our freedom again.

 

[muse]

@Hyperion @Secur @Aeronaut @muse @Talon @Zarvan @Awesome @WebMaster @Last Hope @Luftwaffe @Irfan Baloch @balixd @Yzd Khalifa @DESERT FIGHTER @Leader @Jazzbot @!aeronaut and others.....
Kindly share your views,without a fear of criticism,also let others know if you are liberal,then why do you consider this liberalism best for Pakistan.
It is time to finish this impression that PDF does not gives freedom of speech and supports anti-islamic views.

Your question implies that Liberalism is anti Islamic -- Now of course you can make that argument but before anyone responds to the question, I think you should make the argument that Liberalism and Islam are antithetical, that they are hostile to each other

And as you make the argument, please be mindful of how "Liberal" Islam was in the Context of the society it first emerged in -- think of it, freeing slaves??? Apportioning women right to inheritance?? pronouncing No God but God, in a culture whose economy was based on pilgrimages to the multiple gods?? In a society where girl babies were buried alive??

Look here friend - first be clear in your own head - words are not just words, their meaning you must be clear about -- if some idiot images that this forum is anti Islam then they have t get their head examined, yes many on this forum imagine that it must represent the hell hole that Pakistan is and declare that means "islamic"- but other are determined that will not happen because it is not only inaccurate but we must ensure that it is not.

 

[livingdead]

Your question implies that Liberalism is anti Islamic -- Now of course you can make that argument but before anyone responds to the question, I think you should make the argument that Liberalism and Islam are antithetical, that they are hostile to each other

And as you make the argument, please be mindful of how "Liberal" Islam was in the Context of the society it first emerged in -- think of it, freeing slaves??? Apportioning women right to inheritance?? pronouncing No God but God, in a culture whose economy was based on pilgrimages to the multiple gods?? In a society where girl babies were buried alive??

Look here friend - first be clear in your own head - words are not just words, their meaning you must be clear about -- if some idiot images that this forum is anti Islam then they have t get their head examined, yes many on this forum imagine that it must represent the hell hole that Pakistan is and declare that means "islamic"- but other are determined that will not happen because it is not only inaccurate but we must ensure that it is not.

Pakistani people, even those educated have problem with words like liberalism and secularism. Its not their fault though, traditionally less conservative people there tended to be elite who enjoyed more permissive culture. Should one call them liberals?

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/267849-has-there-ever-been-liberal-secular-pakistan.html

 

[muse]

dude u seriously need to study history !!!

have u any idea how the catholic church treated science before the 16th century ??????

One such example is Giordano Bruno....

the scientist was burned at stake with his tongue nailed to his jaw .......

the point is that religious extremists are found in every religion.

So, is your point that we as Muslims and as the body of Islam are today in the 21st century where Catholics were in the Dark ages of Europe??
If yes, then we have no argument as to what Mullahism is about.



_-
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[Slav Defence]

Your question implies that Liberalism is anti Islamic -- Now of course you can make that argument but before anyone responds to the question, I think you should make the argument that Liberalism and Islam are antithetical, that they are hostile to each other

And as you make the argument, please be mindful of how "Liberal" Islam was in the Context of the society it first emerged in -- think of it, freeing slaves??? Apportioning women right to inheritance?? pronouncing No God but God, in a culture whose economy was based on pilgrimages to the multiple gods?? In a society where girl babies were buried alive??

Look here friend - first be clear in your own head - words are not just words, their meaning you must be clear about -- if some idiot images that this forum is anti Islam then they have t get their head examined, yes many on this forum imagine that it must represent the hell hole that Pakistan is and declare that means "islamic"- but other are determined that will not happen because it is not only inaccurate but we must ensure that it is not.

Mr.Muse,first of all I thank you for your healthy suggestion and critisim second I have clearly mentioned my context of using term Liberalism (In context of sect of mindsets who believe in social reforms by changing laws) and Mullahism (In a context of sect of mindsets who has twisted religion on the base of false interpretations of verses and laws of their own and call themselves 'Mullah',not criticizing the general representative symbol Mullah)many times before and even after I have clarified it multiple times here in this forum as well for those who felt it difficult to understand my context of question.
My basic question was that how such mindsets effect our society?and which one you all think will be best for this society.
And if you see further you will find out that my question was clear enough that almost everyone has answered it with respect to their experience and research,including myself.
Those who felt offensive on the basis of this misunderstanding that I am abusing the title Mullah,I have cleared them too.
But if still some are too dumb for not to understand my terms even I am continuously giving explanation again and again and attacked on my personality like a looser then what do you expect me to do?
My main focus was to analyse such mullahism more then Liberalism,I knew that majority will say that liberals need to re analyse religion,they are not suitable,they need to re-understand the context of Islam before criticizing it etc definitely these terms have various clash points! but I was way interested to know that what people will speak of such mindsets who twist and blurred the very image of Islam and call themselves Mullah?
So my mind was very much clear when I asked those questions,but just like you felt confusion of some people while initiating thread 'beghairat' I had same experience.
Yet still if some members are themselves confuse and twist my clear statements as well,thus derailing the thread and confusing others too then what do you expect me to do?
I am also not saying that if someone has problem to understand my context then do not ask,I say to them ask me multiple times,10X times,and I will also freely accept my mistake if any,but in civilized manner (tameez),and if they don't have it then they don't worth my response.

 

[Dubious]

Mate, I am not asking any muslim to pray in a temple or do anything.. It all start with the the below quote





As for me, I beg to differ..

I find Hinduism much more tolerant and flexible than any other religion..

We both, I mean Christians and Islam have some strict laws and methods of praying..

Hinduism I find it relatively easier way to worshiping and I have given those incidents as examples..

Praying and religion you follow is completely your personal matters.. I am no body to ask some one to follow my religion or any other religion..

I was never criticizing Islam or any other religion here..

I was asking the question that why some one think that they will have to denounce their god to respect other religion..

I never asked a Muslim to come to a temple, I said, Hindus find our God as another form of their god and have no problem praying in a Church or a Mosque.. I think all these got mixed up..

You idea of tolerant is different...For you if the religion is more open to accepting new ideas, it is tolerant.....For us tolerance is accepting what the other says as long as there is no addition or deletion in our religion (QURAN not MULLAH's fatwah

 

[Iggy]

You idea of tolerant is different...For you if the religion is more open to accepting new ideas, it is tolerant.....For us tolerance is accepting what the other says as long as there is no addition or deletion in our religion (QURAN not MULLAH's fatwah

I think you are mistaken.. For me tolerance is respecting other religion and allow them to follow their path.. You do not have to add any more of their practices to your's.. Hinduism done a better job than both Islam and Christians in this regard..