Mullah Akhtar is alive

[Arsalan]

There is a huge difference between TTP and Afghan Talibans and you are mixing both of them. All TTP should be killed (I guess most have been killed) and a few hiding in Afghanistan. Afghan Talibans were never an enemy of Pakistan, not before the infamous WOT, not even during it or now. I would require evidence to believe otherwise. They are a legit political entity in Afghanistan and US has engaged them in the peace process, they have a mission/presence in Doha....very close to CENTCOM...What we need is to seal our border with Afghanistan and do not allow any spillage through the porous border. No Taliban should be in Pakistan or their supporters....however if they make govt in Afghanistan, they can sit in Afghan embassy in Islamabad but that's a totally different thing. As opposed to Taliban, the northern alliance, NDS and current and previous govt in Kabul are open enemies of Pakistan. Their venomous statements embellish headlines every now and then in international media. They are cooperating with India in more than just the civilian ways. They are also encouraging ISIS to take on Talibans and the remnants of TTP have shown allegiance to ISIS. Also we need to work on reducing the extremism in our society but that can only be done when we have an honest and sincere leader as our PM...not a liar and terrorist supporter. We need to apprehend all the terrorist leaders roaming free in Pakistan like Molvi Abdul Aziz, Jaish Maulana Azhar (friend of Rana Sanaullah). As far as the strikes are considered, may i ask a question...Why did USA not do any such thing against Iran or Cuba? despite being enemy for decades...US imposed sanctions on Iran through UNO and tried to destroy its economy but no strike...why... because Iran did not allow that and international law does not allow that.

Sir my question remains,,, DO YOU THINK IF WE STOP GETTING AID WE WILL ASK THEM AND BE ABLE TO STOP THEM FROM ATTACKS? I do not think so,
You are raising a lot of new points while i wait for your reply on this one .
As for TTP and Taliban being different, check my recent posts and you will understand. This differentiation is not done by us by the Taliban themselves. I however do not agree that Afghan Taliban should be allowed to roam freely in Pakistan. They are a evil now, we cannot make the same mistake of accepting one evil to fight another (read Taliban and ISIS here) enough with that. All these terrorist forces along with the ones you named (that i agree that we must focus much much much more on) must be eliminated.

Fair enough but your prior post lumped them together while the reality is that unlike TTP, Afghan Taliban have not made any incursions or attacks inside Pakistan. So it seems disingenuous when you claim suffering from Taliban when in reality they are still your assets and neither Pak Military or Afghan Taliban have lifted a finger to harm each other.

I do treat them both as terrorists unlike you want to think. As you yourself said, that the asset is a bit uncontrolled. That is the problem. They are bringing more harm then good to the world.

Also again i will point you to the fact (that you seem to have conveniently overlooked) that these were our assets just like they were assets of US who created them in the first place. So you think that US attack on Afghanistan was actually against TTP? (which even dint existed at that time) and not afghan Taliban since by your logic they were assets to US. This is not the case.

From Pakistani perspective, we cannot legalize/justify one smaller evil to fight and fend off a larger evil (read taliban and ISIS in this case). All terrorists need to be dealt with without discrimination.

 

[graphican]

Was that a fake encounter to give Nawaz Shareef his second life? Looks like entire drama has seen its anticlimax a little too early than it took off.

 

[war&peace]

Sir my question remains,,, DO YOU THINK IF WE STOP GETTING AID WE WILL ASK THEM AND BE ABLE TO STOP THEM FROM ATTACKS? I do not think so,
You are raising a lot of new points while i wait for your reply on this one .

I beg to differ,...this is an obligation upon Pak as part of the deal....US will give aid in return Pakistan will provide certain permissions and it is no secret. If Pak does not take the aid and does not allow US to violate its airspace, I'm 100% sure US won't.

I however do not agree that Afghan Taliban should be allowed to roam freely in Pakistan. They are a evil now, we cannot make the same mistake of accepting one evil to fight another (read Taliban and ISIS here) enough with that.

When did I say that they should roam free in Pakistan. If you read my comment thoroughly, you can see i support sealing the border with Afghanistan and also not allowing either Talibans into Pakistan or their supporters and I mentioned clear enough...What they do inside the borders of Afghanostan is none of our concerns and Afghan people should deal with them..I don't want them in Pakistan and we do not fight them in Afghanistan as long as they do not interfere in Pakistan or pose a threat to Pakistan....simple and straight forward. I want a peaceful and progressive Pakistan and if Afghanistan can share the same....well and good..but if they don't...I'm least bothered what they do inside their borders. Seal the border, focus on Pakistan...USA can do whatever they want in Afghanistan...Pakistan should not be a part of it.

 

[Spectre]

All terrorists need to be dealt with without discrimination.

Despite of all our differences on basis of nuances, quoted statement is a common ground on which we can meet. However the pre-requisite is that the word "TERRORIST" must be defined and catalogued. There seems to be no consensus on who are terrorist and who are rebels and who are insurgents and who are gunmen and who are militants and who are freedom fighters. A lot of evil happens as long as such overlapping distinctions exist.

As long as shadows and grey areas will exist evil will thrive and to stop evil we must establish clear black and white distinctions. Something India has been trying but sadly being opposed by some.

 

[Musafir117]

Very dirty nasty game playing by USA/Afghanistan/India/Pakistan, China need to come more forward to play active role in it otherwise that cursed land cry for another hundred years.

 

[Arsalan]

The pre-requisite is that the word "TERRORIST" must be defined and catalogued. There seems to be no consensus on who are terrorist and who are rebels and who are insurgents and who are gunmen and who are militants and who are freedom fighters. A lot of evil happens as long as such overlapping distinctions exist.

EXACTLY!!
And the problem to this is who will define this? Who will set the parameters that the whole world can follow. One tool to define this can be religion as ALL religions are against killing of innocents no matter what the tried justifications are. However a drawback will then be what interpretation of religion to follow.

If we think some country can come forward with a definition that all can agree on then who will that be?
United States? who is involved in the most wars in last century and is responsible for more innocent deaths then the whole world combined?
Us? who you think are supporting terrorism in India and are providing the safe haven to non state actors
Or
you? who we say have occupied our land illegally and say that you support terrorists activities in KPK and Baluchistan?
THUS, the problem remains.,,,

 

[Spectre]

EXACTLY!!
And the problem to this is who will define this? Who will set the parameters that the whole world can follow. One tool to define this can be religion as ALL religions are against killing of innocents no matter what the tried justifications are. However a drawback will then be what interpretation of religion to follow.

If we think some country can come forward with a definition that all can agree on then who will that be?
United States? who is involved in the most wars in last century and is responsible for more innocent deaths then the whole world combined?
Us? who you think are supporting terrorism in India and are providing the safe haven to non state actors
Or
you? who we say have occupied our land illegally and say that you support terrorists activities in KPK and Baluchistan?
THUS, the problem remains.,,,

It's quite simple - any group or individual who uses violence to achieve their goals. Past though painful should not be taken into account or else exactly the problem you have suggested - India did this, Pakistan did that, US did this, Israel did that, Iran did this etc will prop up.

Clean slate - Let there be a day zero where UN adopts a clear cut guideline.

Only one problem will remain - state committed crimes like genocide, forcibly annexation territories through war. UN already has mechanism to address these problems but nothing get done due to the veto system. So it would be better to tackle it another day. For now let us all be united against violence by non state entities.

 

[Arsalan]

I beg to differ,...this is an obligation upon Pak as part of the deal....US will give aid in return Pakistan will provide certain permissions and it is no secret. If Pak does not take the aid and does not allow US to violate its airspace, I'm 100% sure US won't.

I wont agree with you on this sir. We are not in position to;

1. Stop them by force
2. Even stop accepting the aid.

part of this is because of there discrimination and part because of our own administrative and diplomatic blunders.

When did I say that they should roam free in Pakistan. If you read my comment thoroughly, you can see i support sealing the border with Afghanistan and also not allowing either Talibans into Pakistan or their supporters and I mentioned clear enough...What they do inside the borders of Afghanostan is none of our concerns and Afghan people should deal with them..I don't want them in Pakistan and we do not fight them in Afghanistan as long as they do not interfere in Pakistan or pose a threat to Pakistan....simple and straight forward. I want a peaceful and progressive Pakistan and if Afghanistan can share the same....well and good..but if they don't...I'm least bothered what they do inside their borders. Seal the border, focus on Pakistan....

Ok, understood and agreed with!

USA can do whatever they want in Afghanistan...Pakistan should not be a part of it

Not possible,
blame geopolitics for that , wait, blame our diplomacy (or the non existence of any such thing) for that.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

DO YOU THINK IF WE STOP GETTING AID WE WILL ASK THEM AND BE ABLE TO STOP THEM FROM ATTACKS?

The answer is in these lines...
Khudi Ko Kar Buland Itna Ke Har Taqdeer Se Pehle
Khuda Bande Se Khud Puche, Bata Teri Raza Kya Hai

We as a nation have made USA to act as god...To earn respect one has to show respect which we have lost by fighting on petty deferences between us...Aid or no Aid we as a nation have to stand united and for once decide to become one...

This is very difficult but it is the only solution...

 

[Zibago]

Very dirty nasty game playing by USA/Afghanistan/India/Pakistan, China need to come more forward to play active role in it otherwise that cursed land cry for another hundred years.

سانوکی#

 

[Arsalan]

It's quite simple - any group or individual who uses violence to achieve their goals. Past though painful should not be taken into account or else exactly the problem you have suggested - India did this, Pakistan did that, US did this, Israel did that, Iran did this etc will prop up.

Clean slate - Let there be a day zero where UN adopts a clear cut guideline.

Only one problem will remain - state committed crimes like genocide, forcibly annexation territories through war. UN already has mechanism to address these problems but nothing get done due to the veto system. So it would be better to tackle it another day. For now let us all be united against violence by non state entities.

It looks excellent on paper. The only problem, will all these countries be willing to give clean slate to others? Will Arabs just walk away from the Israel problem? will Israel just forget the Holocaust? Will Pak just leave Kashmir as it is will even India be OK with that? There are LOTS of politics involved. If it was all that easy, the world have already suffered enough and we would have opted for this route already.

The other huge problem will be who is going to be the enforces here? UN? Do we ALL agree that UN is an unbiased forum and would be a true representative of all world countries? What about the VETO thingy? those who have the VETO power would they be willing to surrender there power for the greater good? I DO NOT THINK SO.

Unfortunately sir, THIS is the world we live in.

 

[Zibago]

The answer is in these lines...
Khudi Ko Kar Buland Itna Ke Har Taqdeer Se Pehle
Khuda Bande Se Khud Puche, Bata Teri Raza Kya Hai

We as a nation have made USA to act as god...To earn respect one has to show respect which we have lost by fighting on petty deferences between us...Aid or no Aid we as a nation have to stand united and for once decide to become one...

This is very difficult but it is the only solution...

America is also our major export market any major dent in relation with US also means bye bye to EU GSP status and our exports to US

 

[Arsalan]

America is also our major export market any major dent in relation with US also means bye bye to EU GSP status and our exports to US

SOOOOO many thing we often forget out of patriotism and excitement.
THINGS are not THAT simple in the world we live in.

 

[Zibago]

SOOOOO many thing we often forget out of patriotism and excitement.
THINGS are not THAT simple in the world we live in.

But baboon leagi media wing goes on a rant ignoring the ground realities
We agree to the drone attacks
We provided them drone bases
We handed over to them foreign fighters

 

[Zahoor Raja-Jani]

Any english translation?

Mullah Akhter Mansoor who suppose to be killed in drone strike inside Pakistan releases the audio message that he is alive.