Muhamad ghauri saint or devil

[sid426]

Sufism is the mystical element of Islam, it is part and parcel of the Islamic Faith, and many Sufi's did come with the Warrior's.

Now then!

Sufism is different from the traditional form of Islam. It is 'indeed' not what was ordained on Mohammed and preached by him.Therefore, Sufis and mystics were seen with skepticism in many islamic countries in the past and in the current scenario as well.



'Wahabism' is the purest form of Islam.

 

[Vinod2070]

Sufism is the mystical element of Islam, it is part and parcel of the Islamic Faith, and many Sufi's did come with the Warrior's.

Let me repeat an old post here.

You know, there was a recent news that a whole village was denounced as kaafir by a local Mulla in a UP village after they attended a prayer for a dead person led by a Sufi!

There are many in the Islamic faith (especially the Wahabi/Deobandi types) who think the followers of Sufis are kaafirs. That they are in opposition to the basic tenets of Islam.

If that is true, were you betrayed? You were converted by showing something that was never true to begin with.

BTW, don't fool yourself about the hierarchy in Islam. What is Ashraf and Ajlaf then? Why the superior status for Syeds and Arabs? Even if you deny it, it won't matter. Otherwise why would millions in Pakistan try to be fake Arabs?

P.S.: The Mulla also declared the relations between all married couples of the village as ZINA (never ceases to amaze me, this obsession with fu**ing) and all of them had to marry again.

 

[Rafi]

Lol. These are facts recorded by Muslim historians of the time with great glee.

They have always been considered a matter of great pride throughout Islamic history, a gift of Allah to the faithful.

They become propaganda when they seem inconvenient!

Taqiya is not going to work my friend.

It is you who is mistaken - Warrior's are always going to gloat about their victories, but the fact of the matter is the vast majority of the religious conversions were carried out peacefully due to the preaching of the Sufi Saints.

 

[Rafi]

Now then!

Sufism is different from the traditional form of Islam. It is 'indeed' not what was ordained on Mohammed and preached by him.Therefore, Sufis and mystics were seen with skepticism in many islamic countries in the past and in the current scenario as well.



'Wahabism' is the purest form of Islam.

Post reported, who are you - a non Muslim to say which is the pure form of Islam, pure ignorance from you indian's.

 

[Rafi]

Let me repeat an old post here.

This is india, and nothing to do with me.

 

[sid426]

Post reported, who are you - a non Muslim to say which is the pure form of Islam, pure ignorance from you indian's.

Ohh man!..

be a little broad minded please. Reporting the post when you are in no position to reply is sheer cowardice.

I can even give you a detailed difference between the principles of Sufism and the Purest form of Islam.


And brother, Is this the best you can do? tagging me a kafir and ending the discussion?

 

[Vinod2070]

It is you who is mistaken - Warrior's are always going to gloat about their victories, but the fact of the matter is the vast majority of the religious conversions were carried out peacefully due to the preaching of the Sufi Saints.

They were gloating about genocides, streams of blood, destruction of worship places!

I pity those who think this is normal and try to condone it.

Regarding "the vast majority of the religious conversions were carried out peacefully due to the preaching of the Sufi Saints", let me give you one very recent example of Nuristan. What happened there was a milder form of what happened throughout Islamic history.

The region was conquered by Emir Abdur Rahman Khan in 1895–96 and the Nuristani were then converted to Islam.

The Kafirs are thought to be the original inhabitants of the plains country of Afghanistan in what is now Nuristan. They were driven back into the mountain areas by the arrival of Islam in the country about 700AD. They are thought to be the descendents of the old Indian population that used to occupy the region, and they did not convert to Islam with the rest of the population, remaining pagan for several more centuries. Their language is much akin to Sanskrit.[3] ”

The Kafirs were largely independent until the late nineteenth century, when the region was attacked by the forces of Abdur Rahman and the population was more forcibly converted to Islam .[4] ”

They had only been converted to Islam as late as the 1890s , at the point of the sword [5]

There were no or little peaceful conversions. It was almost always either forced or a political or economic decision.

 

[Roybot]

You understand nothing, my people were not massacred by anyone, they fought Ghauri at the time because they were concerned about their land's, and the did not loose anything, they gained a beautiful religion.

Why do you think your people were spared?

 

[Vinod2070]

This is india, and nothing to do with me.

It has everything to do with Sufism and Islam, the topic here.

Let me give you a news from Pakistan!

BBC News - Six killed by bomb at Sufi shrine in Pakistan's Punjab

This is not an isolated thing. Sufis are killed and persecuted as Mushriks in may places in Pakistan and other parts of Islamic world.

 

[MadDog]

My friend please dont generalise Pakistanis, the way you said that
the forefathers of Pakistanis were attacked by Ghauri (who had thousands of afghans/pushtuns with him while today there 35 million Pakistani Pushtun people)...ur argument fails here...

Along with Local pre islamic ancestory Jatts, Rajputs and Gujjars in Punjab, there are also Punjabi Pathans (same people in Ghauri's army) in Punjab and Punjabi families who still claim decent from the arab people settled when Ummayad and Abbasyd Dynasties ruled South Punjab for more than a hundred years and the rest of land (today's Pakistan) namely Gakhars, Khattar, Awan, Mughal and Arain, comprising the main tribes in the north of the province, while Khagga, Bodla, Jhandir, Daudpota, Gardezi, Syed and Quraishi source Punjabi people Punjabi people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pakistani people also comprise of Baloch, Balthis, Kashmiris, Hazaras....not all Pakistanis are the decendants of those who resisted Ghauri...so please dont generalize Pakistani people.yes there might be decendants of those people but Pakistan today is a mixture of ethnicities as India is so plz dont relate a whole country to one ethnicity..its really offensive !!!

 

[sid426]

Traditional Islamic thought and Sufism

The literature of Sufism emphasizes highly subjective matters that resist outside observation, such as the subtle states of the heart. Often these resist direct reference or description, with the consequence that the authors of various Sufi treatises took recourse to allegorical language. For instance, much Sufi poetry refers to intoxication, which Islam expressly forbids. This usage of indirect language and the existence of interpretations by people who had no training in Islam or Sufism led to doubts being cast over the validity of Sufism as a part of Islam. Also, some groups emerged that considered themselves above the Sharia and discussed Sufism as a method of bypassing the rules of Islam in order to attain salvation directly. This was disapproved of by traditional scholars.
For these and other reasons, the relationship between traditional Islamic scholars and Sufism is complex and a range of scholarly opinion on Sufism in Islam has been the norm. Some scholars, such as Al-Ghazali, helped its propagation while other scholars opposed it. W. Chittick explains the position of Sufism and Sufis this way:
In short, Muslim scholars who focused their energies on understanding the normative guidelines for the body came to be known as jurists, and those who held that the most important task was to train the mind in achieving correct understanding came to be divided into three main schools of thought: theology, philosophy, and Sufism. This leaves us with the third domain of human existence, the spirit. Most Muslims who devoted their major efforts to developing the spiritual dimensions of the human person came to be known as Sufis.

 

[Vinod2070]

My friend please dont generalise Pakistanis, the way you said that
the forefathers of Pakistanis were attacked by Ghauri (who had thousands of afghans/pushtuns with him while today there 35 million Pakistani Pushtun people)...ur argument fails here...

Along with Local pre islamic ancestory Jatts, Rajputs and Gujjars in Punjab, there are also Punjabi Pathans (same people in Ghauri's army) in Punjab and Punjabi families who still claim decent from the arab people settled when Ummayad and Abbasyd Dynasties ruled South Punjab for more than a hundred years and the rest of land (today's Pakistan) namely Gakhars, Khattar, Awan, Mughal and Arain, comprising the main tribes in the north of the province, while Khagga, Bodla, Jhandir, Daudpota, Gardezi, Syed and Quraishi source Punjabi people Punjabi people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pakistani people also comprise of Baloch, Balthis, Kashmiris, Hazaras....not all Pakistanis are the decendants of those who resisted Ghauri...so please dont generalize Pakistani people.yes there might be decendants of those people but Pakistan today is a mixture of ethnicities as India is so plz dont relate a whole country to one ethnicity..its really offensive !!!

Mate, I am just stating facts as I know them. You are free to correct me.

I am not talking of Arabs here or those Pakistanis who claim descent from invaders. Many of those claims are fake though or at least they are a mix of native and invader blood.

What is true for Pakistani Punjabis and Sindhis is also true for Pushtuns. They were only conquered and converted a little earlier.

 

[sid426]

My girlfriend is a muslim with a sufi background, but after the advent of wahabism in her family they have stopped visitng the dargahs saying that doing sajda in front of some one other than allah is blasphemous.

and according to the Quran and the Sunnah, this is the case...

 

[MadDog]

As far as the fact that whether Ghauri was a good guy or bad guy is concerned...i think comparing his tactics of the time with morality of 21st centuary would be injustice ....if indian hindu kings would have invaded Central Asia they would have done the same...so its stupid to even comment on the tactics of the ancient times.

However like Jinnah once said Our heroes are your villains, so yes as a Pakistani, i think he was a great general and a tactician of his time and confronted the anti-muslim forces of his time....same goes for Ghaznavi while for Akbar i would say when he braught Deen-e-Ilahi, Allah sent Mujadid Alfisani to counter his evil designs and his scheme failed and muslim culture of subcontinent still thrives today.

Allama Iqbal considered Mujadid Alfisani one of the important people who made sure that Muslim culture in subcontinent isn't washed away by Indian culture and values.

 

[MadDog]

@ Vindo2070 Definitely through centuries obviously the families claiming decent from other places,
their bloodlines can't be exactly as they were a thousand years ago (although some Sayyeds in Pakistan normally dont marry in other families), even if we include this fact there is still a difference...
along with the presence of pre Islamic ancestory Punjabis.........
Here in Canada, all my Indian and Bangladeshi
friends ask me why do most Pakistanis have different features than indians...i tell them to just re-read history
and not follow stereotypes about Pakistan...anyways thats a seperate topic....but for Pak identity Ghauri is considered
an important character i guess.