MQM Sold theirselves again.

[Dynamic_Dynasty]

What are you talking about? What is your point?

Read my previous reply.

Forget it. You will never get it anyways.

 

[EagleEyes]

LOL you visited i lived 21 Years of my Life in Karachi. I was born there, my dad was born there, my grand dad was born there. But still i was told that this is not Your Karachi "Ye Karachi hamara hai". LOL

Thats why i said the day you live there then talk, without living there just HUSH and leave to the people who belongs to Karachi. You dont even know what are you talking about.

Did i mention that i didn't live there? hah! Those who said "ye karachi hamra hai" were @holes. For once.. think sensibly, and be aware that bad apples exist.. for which every Pakistani will be against.

Turning such personal events into a wide array of stereotype is arrogance at best.

 

[opinion786]

LOL, I can give you names of many Police men who died. And MQM won where they never won before i mean the turnout was 47 percent it was never in 60Years, now dont give me bs about some democracy this and that.

And, vice-versa! And, Farooq Sattar can give you names of 15,000 MQM supporters that were killed by the Police/Rangers in 1992 and 1996.

Acording to Amnesty International, in 1996 some 2000 activists of MQM were killed in exra-judicial killings.

Now compare this to, the GENOCIDE conducted by Ariel Sharon on Palestinian Refugees,in Shabra & Shatila camps in 1982.... in which 1900 Palestinians were killed.

People everywhere in Pak, have been biased against the attitute of Police, and hence target them for their cruelty.

By the way, MQM won with more votes in 1998 elections... and in these 2008 elections, I have witnessed may anti-MQM poeple going out to vote for MQM ..... just to support its development projects & infrastructure changes.

 

[opinion786]

PPP won majority in Sindh on its own merits, what MQM has done for construction builds that some people are braggin about is this and it sums it up, one of the PPP leaders was answering a MQM leader and said "the only thing you do is put MQM flags and names on what we designed in our tenures, or you sell our designs for your interests", the KSE the Karachi Steal Mill was designed by PPP Gov in th 70s and sold by Musharraf with the blessing of MQM.

The merits were openly shown by Fatima bhutto on GEO when she showed how Nisar Khuro was fraudently registering votes in his favor. In areas of these feudals no one wins on merits.

Oh please, we live in Karachi to decide best, who build what and when. All that PPP leader could give in example was the 70's steel mills & KSE?

Karachi has been included in C-40 only due to efforts of City Nazim. C-40 means the "World's Top 40 Cities" and international acknowledgement by Bill Clinton's NGO.

I have seen that all major inter colleges have increased their departments & new buildings being erected, premises extended.

36 model schools have beeb established, two in each town, at a cost of Rs400m.

18 inter colleges have been converted into 'English medium' colleges.

The CDGK has started rehabilitating infrastructure of all the four industrial zones of the city by initiating roads and streets’ construction work and laying water and sewerage lines at an estimated cost of Rs4.5b.

For the first time in history, a major pipeline for water has been laid in Lyari (PPP stronghold) and water problems ended. Why didn't PPP laya water line for Lyari?

For the first time in 50 years, 28 major water SUPPLY lines have been laid all over KHI.

For the first time in 50 years, all major sewerage lines have been changed, with broad & modern pipes (brought from Dubai).... in all major areas & major roads of KHI.

Inter-city bus terminus at Yousuf Goth in Baldia Town near the RCD Highway hasbeen constructed (which eliminated the traffic congestion). One one Deh Bhatti Aameri on the Super Highway and at Razzaqabad in Malir Town on the National Highway.

Many underpasses completed in record time! The length of Nazimabad underpass was 768 meters and its estimated cost was Rs360 million, while 667-meter-long Liaquatabad underpass would cost Rs350 million and 560-meter-long Gharibabad underpass was completed at a cost of Rs220 million. These are all 3 laned.

All major streets of KHI have been converted into 3 laned and every small ground (earlier used for trash & dumping) has been converted into small neighbourhood parks!

To top it all, the city Nazim has initiated and contruction started on the 36 story "IT Tower" with 10,000 call centres.

We must give credit where it is due! karachi has improved tremendously under City Nazim.

 

[Dynamic_Dynasty]

Did i mention that i didn't live there? hah! Those who said "ye karachi hamra hai" were @holes. For once.. think sensibly, and be aware that bad apples exist.. for which every Pakistani will be against.

Turning such personal events into a wide array of stereotype is arrogance at best.

I met only one good guy from MQM in my life, and he was living quietly. All i saw were thugs, bhatta khors, and phaddey baz.

I think they have tooo many bad apples, not just some. And not even personal events there are alot of em there but its just people dont speak up cus they dont wanna loose their lives.

 

[Dynamic_Dynasty]

And, vice-versa! And, Farooq Sattar can give you names of 15,000 MQM supporters that were killed by the Police/Rangers in 1992 and 1996.

Acording to Amnesty International, in 1996 some 2000 activists of MQM were killed in exra-judicial killings.

Now compare this to, the GENOCIDE conducted by Ariel Sharon on Palestinian Refugees,in Shabra & Shatila camps in 1982.... in which 1900 Palestinians were killed.

People everywhere in Pak, have been biased against the attitute of Police, and hence target them for their cruelty.

By the way, MQM won with more votes in 1998 elections... and in these 2008 elections, I have witnessed may anti-MQM poeple going out to vote for MQM ..... just to support its development projects & infrastructure changes.

If you guys were acting like some civilized people noone would have hurt you. You guys were digging rods to make bunkers, there were no go areas, there were alot of things that is why you got this. Why whenever theres a strike from MQM 4 or 5 people die, 100s of vehicles get burned.

WHY are you guys outlaws? you are above the law? the day you left all these things trust me MQM can be a better and bigger party but they lost their reputation because of all this.

MQM say they are the ones that represent the educated class of Pakistan yet when Imran khan said something about Altaf MQM showed their education on the walls of Karachi. First act like some civilized educated people then come up and say you are good and MAZLOOM.

 

[buckles007]

If you guys were acting like some civilized people noone would have hurt you. You guys were digging rods to make bunkers, there were no go areas, there were alot of things that is why you got this. Why whenever theres a strike from MQM 4 or 5 people die, 100s of vehicles get burned.

WHY are you guys outlaws? you are above the law? the day you left all these things trust me MQM can be a better and bigger party but they lost their reputation because of all this.

MQM say they are the ones that represent the educated class of Pakistan yet when Imran khan said something about Altaf MQM showed their education on the walls of Karachi. First act like some civilized educated people then come up and say you are good and MAZLOOM.

Be careful here. You are using racist stereotypical language which smells of hate and contempt towards an entire people. This can be seen from your simple generalizations: "you guys were acting..."; "you guys were digging rods..."; "why are you guys outlaws?"; "you are above the law?"; "the day you left..."; "... act like some civilized and educated people..." and so on. This is how RACIST people tend to speak and disparge a community.

I just joined this forum and do not know Opinion 786 personally, but please share with us your evidence which shows that Opinion 786 was "digging rods" and is an "outlaw". Produce your evidence that Opinion 786 thinks he is "above the law" and that he is uncivilized and does not act like an educated individual. I want to see your evidence against him because in your cited comments, you are making blatant generalizations about everyone, which naturally includes him.

You need to learn to be nuanced in the terms you use and educate yourself to make distinctions between individuals and entire communities.

On the contrary, from what I have read, Opinion 786 appears to be educated and an informed individual. You don't have to accept his views to agree with this. You, however, with your above highlighted loaded and hatefilled language, exhibit signs of being uncivilized (and lacking education based on your sub-standard use of English).

Secondly, you did not reply to the points raised by Opinion 786. For arguments sake, let us suppose that you are right. Does that justify the killing of innocent civillians in Karachi in the 1990's? My dad is Punjabi and I lived in Karachi for a few years in the 1990's during the time of the operation and have some personal insights into the issue. I have never belonged or supported the MQM but know people who were murdered in broad daylight simply because they were suspected of having a connection with the MQM. I know of neighbourhoods in Nazimabad where all the inhabitants (men), many being the elderly, were forced out of their homes, viciously abused, taken to local cricket grounds and parks and interrogated for over a day, being made to sit on the ground with no shade from the sun, their faces covered with their own shirts, and many getting beaten up etc. There is no doubt that large scale mass murders and killings were committed by the authorities in this period, together with other human rights violations. There is no excuse and justification for this.

Considering your comments, I am surprised how closely they tally with the "answers" offered by, say, Ariel Sharon. When questioned about the human rights violations of the Palestinians, a standard twisted response would be: "if you people would stop committing suicide bombings, teaching extremism and behave in a civilized manner etc."

Let us be clear, besides being racist (since an entire community is being labelled), the above is no excuse and justification to kill innocent civillians on mere suspicion.

And talking about being civilized, how civilized was the PPP when its founder rigged the 77 elections? The PPP has also killed the people so many, many times. As have the Jamaat, and all others. Upon BB's death, the PPP activists went on a mass terrorism rampage throughout Pakistan in which they destroyed properties, killed people, robbed banks and what not. But I bet you would never get the courage to condemn the PPP, particularly not in the racist stereotypical generalized manner in which you "condemn" the MQM.

Every political party has blood on its hands, as does the MQM. But the right way forward is not to kill more innocent people and to be racist towards and entire community.

 

[Brightstar]

@buckles007


I don't agree with you labeling about MQM as a political party. I don't consider this entity as a political party in the present form. It is more like a gang of terrorists, who wrongfully portray themselves as the voice of our Karachi brothers. It is no secret that MQM is involved in acts of terrorism, bhatta khoree, black mailing, killings etc. Why doesn't Altaf come back to Pakistan? Why is he allowed to make long telecasts with regular intervals? What is the need for all these telecasts? How is it possible for him to appear on almost every hourly news update on GEO TV?

I am not blaming you. I am just asking some questions.

I don't agree with your remark about "sub-standard English" either. Regardless of writing capabilities everyone does have the right to voice their opinion. This is a democratic right everyone should enjoy. I have seen bright minds with poor writing capabilities.

Apart from that you have many good points (IMO). There is no room for racism and stereotyping people and whole communities.

 

[Majnun]

Be careful here. You are using racist stereotypical language which smells of hate and contempt towards an entire people. This can be seen from your simple generalizations: "you guys were acting..."; "you guys were digging rods..."; "why are you guys outlaws?"; "you are above the law?"; "the day you left..."; "... act like some civilized and educated people..." and so on. This is how RACIST people tend to speak and disparge a community.

I just joined this forum and do not know Opinion 786 personally, but please share with us your evidence which shows that Opinion 786 was "digging rods" and is an "outlaw". Produce your evidence that Opinion 786 thinks he is "above the law" and that he is uncivilized and does not act like an educated individual. I want to see your evidence against him because in your cited comments, you are making blatant generalizations about everyone, which naturally includes him.

You need to learn to be nuanced in the terms you use and educate yourself to make distinctions between individuals and entire communities.

On the contrary, from what I have read, Opinion 786 appears to be educated and an informed individual. You don't have to accept his views to agree with this. You, however, with your above highlighted loaded and hatefilled language, exhibit signs of being uncivilized (and lacking education based on your sub-standard use of English).

Secondly, you did not reply to the points raised by Opinion 786. For arguments sake, let us suppose that you are right. Does that justify the killing of innocent civillians in Karachi in the 1990's? My dad is Punjabi and I lived in Karachi for a few years in the 1990's during the time of the operation and have some personal insights into the issue. I have never belonged or supported the MQM but know people who were murdered in broad daylight simply because they were suspected of having a connection with the MQM. I know of neighbourhoods in Nazimabad where all the inhabitants (men), many being the elderly, were forced out of their homes, viciously abused, taken to local cricket grounds and parks and interrogated for over a day, being made to sit on the ground with no shade from the sun, their faces covered with their own shirts, and many getting beaten up etc. There is no doubt that large scale mass murders and killings were committed by the authorities in this period, together with other human rights violations. There is no excuse and justification for this.

Considering your comments, I am surprised how closely they tally with the "answers" offered by, say, Ariel Sharon. When questioned about the human rights violations of the Palestinians, a standard twisted response would be: "if you people would stop committing suicide bombings, teaching extremism and behave in a civilized manner etc."

Let us be clear, besides being racist (since an entire community is being labelled), the above is no excuse and justification to kill innocent civillians on mere suspicion.

And talking about being civilized, how civilized was the PPP when its founder rigged the 77 elections? The PPP has also killed the people so many, many times. As have the Jamaat, and all others. Upon BB's death, the PPP activists went on a mass terrorism rampage throughout Pakistan in which they destroyed properties, killed people, robbed banks and what not. But I bet you would never get the courage to condemn the PPP, particularly not in the racist stereotypical generalized manner in which you "condemn" the MQM.

Every political party has blood on its hands, as does the MQM. But the right way forward is not to kill more innocent people and to be racist towards and entire community.

MQM is not a community and therefore there is no racism involved. No one can support a group (I do not say political party) whose leader flies to India and says he would have gone against the making of Pakistan (in the 1940s) if he could.
And the MQM consists entirely of gangsters and criminals and thugs, and if you are of the MQM group, you are one too.

 

[opinion786]

=Dynamic_Dynasty;149219]If you guys were acting like some civilized people noone would have hurt you. You guys were digging rods to make bunkers, there were no go areas, there were alot of things that is why you got this. Why whenever theres a strike from MQM 4 or 5 people die, 100s of vehicles get burned.

There are still no go areas in Karachi controlled by PPP in Lyari and Haqiqi in Shah Faisal Colony ! Check them!

What about the killing & burning that followed after Benazir died? It burned 600 cars and killed many...

MQM rampages have aso been in defiance, when their workers are killled.

Recently there was shooting in Medical college, in which Jamiat & PSF killed each other. Civilised????

WHY are you guys outlaws? you are above the law? the day you left all these things trust me MQM can be a better and bigger party but they lost their reputation because of all this.

Who isn't an out-law in Pakistan? hahaha! MQM doesn't need anyone's free dictation on what to do... they won recently on their merits and development work in Karachi.... taking votes in millions.

I may disgree with many of their policies... but I appreciate the work they did under City Nazim.

MQM say they are the ones that represent the educated class of Pakistan yet when Imran khan said something about Altaf MQM showed their education on the walls of Karachi. First act like some civilized educated people then come up and say you are good and MAZLOOM.

If Imran's accusations had some standing... he wouldn't have been kicked out by Scotland Yard..... he was gearing for low level tactics that our actresses use against each other to gain popularity!

Who is Mazloom in paKaistan's politics? Even the majority Parties in Assembly are feudals or Businessmen Mafia tycoons (Godfathers) !

 

[buckles007]

I don't agree with you labeling about MQM as a political party. I don't consider this entity as a political party in the present form.

So what? If I don't consider the PPP to be a political party for whatever reason, does that mean they have ceased to be a political party and that it is, therefore, wrong to call them a political party? Of course not.

Your denial of MQM's existence as a political party is merely self-deception. It should not be confused with reality.

The reality is that despite your personal view, all Pakistani political parties (that I know of) acknowledge MQM as a political party, as do commentators, analysts (at least the majority), as do international organizations, parties, and leaders. So your denial of reality means nothing.

It is more like a gang of terrorists, who wrongfully portray themselves as the voice of our Karachi brothers.

And I think the above description is more stronger and correct when applied upon the PPP, PML-N, Jamaat, ANP etc.

It is no secret that MQM is involved in acts of terrorism, bhatta khoree, black mailing, killings etc.

And it is no secret that PPP, PML-N, Jamaat, ANP etc have been involved in acts of terrorism, bhatta khoree, black mailing, killings etc. Consider PPP's nationwide terrorism, killings and lootings which began hours after the passing away of BB. Oh right, we can ignore that can't we? Let's just isolate one party and deceptively portray it as uniquely involved in such activities.

Also, had you read my comments attentively, I DID NOT deny that MQM was involved in such type of activities. I am, however, making two points here:

1. ALMOST ALL political parties have blood on their hands, so let us condemn them all with consistency. Let us be consistent in our standards and methodology. There cannot be one standard/criterion for the MQM and another (a more reasonable one) for the PPP, Jamaat, ANP, PML-N etc.

2. Let us not indulge in broad generalizations. Some of the language being used here is offensive as it is being applied upon an entire people without any distinctions. Regarding the MQM itself, not all of its members have been involved in the activities you pointed out above. Therefore, it is wrong (logically as well) to paint them all with the same brush.

My basic point is that we acknowledge that ALL parties, MQM included, have done terrible things in the past. They are all blameworthy.

Why doesn't Altaf come back to Pakistan?

So he gets killed like BB? Perhaps he has genuine security concerns? That he is not coming to Pakistan does not in anyway give credibility to your above points.

Why is he allowed to make long telecasts with regular intervals?
What is the need for all these telecasts?

I don't understand what type of an "objection" this is. Can you elaborate and explain clearly what you mean by the above?

Generally speaking, it is not a matter of him being "allowed" or "disallowed" to make "long telecasts" (you mean phone calls?). Permission is not required from any source. He can make the calls as he sees fit.

As for the "need" for the "telecasts" (by which you, presumably, mean phone calls), then I don't know as I am not there. But I would assume that being a political leader of Pakistan's third largest political party (irrespective of your denial of this), he would often be required to be in touch with his team down in Pakistan and to communicate with his partners and allies as well...these are simply my very general assumptions.

How is it possible for him to appear on almost every hourly news update on GEO TV?

He does not appear "hourly" on GEO TV. I have access to GEO and I do not see him there on an "hourly" basis. But, you need to pose this question to GEO don't you? I am sure you can get in touch with them through their website.

 

[Brightstar]

@buckles

I agree that that JI is almost of the same category as MQM. PPPP and PML-N also have armed wings and are involved in irregularities, but they are not involved in systematic bhatta-khoree, killing and looting like MQM. How do you think Altaf runs his offices in Britain?

You seem to be an expert on MQM. Why did Altaf state in India that creating Pakistan was a mistake? Why did MQM stage a drama on 12th May? Deliberately on the same day as CJP had planned to arrive in Karachi. Why does MQM say they are an anti-establishment party when they clearly collaborate with the GHQ/dictator and the establishment? Why all these lies from MQM?


/Saqib

 

[mujahideen]

I agree that that JI is almost of the same category as MQM. PPPP and PML-N also have armed wings and are involved in irregularities, but they are not involved in systematic bhatta-khoree, killing and looting like MQM. How do you think Altaf runs his offices in Britain?
You seem to be an expert on MQM. Why did Altaf state in India that creating Pakistan was a mistake? Why did MQM stage a drama on 12th May? Deliberately on the same day as CJP had planned to arrive in Karachi. Why does MQM say they are an anti-establishment party when they clearly collaborate with the GHQ/dictator and the establishment? Why all these lies from MQM?

All of our parties are corrupt and get money illegally wether its through robbery or bhatta. MQM being a small regional party gets its money from bhatta and parties like the PPP and PML-N and other national parties get their money by robbing our national bank when they come to power.
Now as far as your comments about the MQM is concerned, MQM is not the only one to be blamed for May 12th. PPP is equally to blame. As far as the CJP thing is concerned, he knew this was going to happen, if he cared enough about the people he would of called of his trip. Look I am not in favour of the MQM, infact if you read my previous posts you might see how I feel about them.
Now let us get to the establisment party and who has collaborated with dictators and the GHQ. I ask who which party or which politician in Pakistan doesn't have the military in their roots. I ask you name one party which can claim that they never recieved support from the military?

 

[pkpatriotic]

Its really pleasure to know that, our prople is now much politically mature by having such bitter experiences with such corrupt so called politicians, ln fact we allow them to take the positions of power that they desire, instead of actually choosing who shall lead us. Humans tend to submit to those who claim authority, since it is easier to believe in symbols of power, than it is to personally submit to the tedium of the reasoning process. As a people, we tend to follow the natural order of things along the path of least resistance. By taking the easy way out, we give our blessing to the law of the jungle.
It is natural for societies to become dominated by powerful so-called elites.

They are the true radicals, and self proclaimed elitist but neo -aristocrates possessed by promoting "extremist belief systems." Their plans for us are the end program of a centuries-old class war against each other. they always try to get power by crual mean practices to become like mafia don and then behaving like masters of mankind and the rest of the human race. These neocons are nothing new, just the latest, most-concentrated form of this egotistical brand of pure evil.

But Now ultimately, peoples are so much mature and understand the root of their sufferings, and can see the reality beyond the illusions of the nightly dream-weavers and the patriotic drum-beaters. hopefully by the certain eveluation process we may find right leader (instead of just lier polititian), who will tka eour nation toward success 7 peace.

 

[salman nedian]

Dynamic_Dynasty,

You didn’t mention a single event of communal violence. Police men died in encounters with criminals; would you call it an ethnic violence?

If you don’t believe on democracy than why are you arguing? Then there is no point of discussion mate.

You said that “the day you left all these things trust me MQM can be a better and bigger party but they lost their reputation because of all this” but there are people who are not allowing MQM in the main stream than tell me what should they do?

They are a political force wather any one accepts it or not. They have a bigger vote bank than Imran khan and they represent the driving force of Pakistan.

We always criticize Altaf Hussain for his speech in India (including me) but day before Yesterday Nawaz Sharif said that there should be no Visa restrictions between Pakistan and India. Now why don’t you call Nawaz Sharif a traitor?

We should think about our Country we have already lost half of it because we didn’t put our ears on demands of Bengali people and we gave them a title of traitors. Think about it!