Move begins to form new India state

[praveen]

I like how India requires only a simple majority (correct me if I am wrong) in parliament to create new states.

In Pakistan it is equivalent to a constitutional amendment and requires a two thirds majority in the National and Provincial assemblies I believe. Otherwise we would likely be moving, at the very least, towards bifurcating Punjab (which is something I believe needs to be done given its size).

On what basis Linguistic,ethinicity or development?Punjab seems to be perfectly the right size and relatively prosperous even when compared to some Indian states

 

[rajeev]

I like how India requires only a simple majority (correct me if I am wrong) in parliament to create new states.

In Pakistan it is equivalent to a constitutional amendment and requires a two thirds majority in the National and Provincial assemblies I believe. Otherwise we would likely be moving, at the very least, towards bifurcating Punjab (which is something I believe needs to be done given its size).

Yes, I also think the samething. Whenever I see politics in Pakistan, I feel that Punjab is richest and most powerful state - almost large degree of important government positions and in military goes to Punjabis. This in a way victimizes the other states that feel they are neglected.

I hope you guys would take of Balochistan where I saw an elected leader complaining that his entire state less money than the capital. Dividing Punjab can do more good than harm.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

On what basis Linguistic,ethinicity or development?Punjab seems to be perfectly the right size and relatively prosperous even when compared to some Indian states

Yes, I also think the samething. Whenever I see politics in Pakistan, I feel that Punjab is richest and most powerful state - almost large degree of important government positions and in military goes to Punjabis. This in a way victimizes the other states that feel they are neglected.

I hope you guys would take of Balochistan where I saw an elected leader complaining that his entire state less money than the capital. Dividing Punjab can do more good than harm.

Punjab province is close to 57% of Pakistan's total population, but Punjabis as an ethnic group (identified on the basis of having Punjabi as their mother tongue) are a plurality of around 44%. The difference is largely made up by the Seraiki speaking population which are a little over 10%.

South Punjab is not as developed as the rest of Punjab, which is why the argument is made that there should be a division and the PML-N came under a lot of criticism after their provincial budget recently in that very little was allocated to South Punjab for development when it is already more backward and undeveloped.

Revenue distribution in Pakistan has traditionally been on the basis of population. That obviously benefits the province with the larger populations. In itself it is not a bad criteria for distribution of resources. However other provinces have argued for including criteria such as 'backwardness and size of province (Baluchistan argues in favor of both while NWFP argues in favor of the former) and revenue collection (Sindh).

The current discussions on the NFC award (National Finance Commission - that provides the framework for vertical and horizontal distribution of resources between the center and the provinces), are focused on coming up with a composite basket of criteria for horizontal distribution of resources. Obviously every province wants to argue in favor of the criteria that nets it the most money.

Now on the subject of Baluchistan's revenue share - on the basis of the past criteria of 'population', Baluchistan gets more than its population as a proportion of the total population suggests.

Baluchistan only has a population of about 6 million - that is probably less than the current population of Lahore alone, which is why its revenue share has been so low, though it is higher than the other provinces on a per capita basis. I think they have a valid argument on the issue of allocating more resources to them on the basis of backwardness and size (Baluchistan is over 40% of Pakistan's territory), but even in a composite basket those criteria will have a relatively low weight - population will continue to be the largest factor in allocating resources, which is at it should be for the most part.

I think in the end what Baluchistan and the other provinces want is more fiscal and administrative accountability. As someone who believes in decentralization, I think that is important since it allows the people of every province to hold their provincial legislators accountable - what is the point of having massive provincial expenses in paying the salaries and perks of MPA's and provincial governments if they just pass the buck, for their failures, on to the Federal Government?

 

[Draft]

So who gets Hyderabad?

 

[greatsequence]

Punjab province is close to 57% of Pakistan's total population, but Punjabis as an ethnic group (identified on the basis of having Punjabi as their mother tongue) are a plurality of around 44%. The difference is largely made up by the Seraiki speaking population which are a little over 10%.

South Punjab is not as developed as the rest of Punjab, which is why the argument is made that there should be a division and the PML-N came under a lot of criticism after their provincial budget recently in that very little was allocated to South Punjab for development when it is already more backward and undeveloped.

Revenue distribution in Pakistan has traditionally been on the basis of population. That obviously benefits the province with the larger populations. In itself it is not a bad criteria for distribution of resources. However other provinces have argued for including criteria such as 'backwardness and size of province (Baluchistan argues in favor of both while NWFP argues in favor of the former) and revenue collection (Sindh).

The current discussions on the NFC award (National Finance Commission - that provides the framework for vertical and horizontal distribution of resources between the center and the provinces), are focused on coming up with a composite basket of criteria for horizontal distribution of resources. Obviously every province wants to argue in favor of the criteria that nets it the most money.

Now on the subject of Baluchistan's revenue share - on the basis of the past criteria of 'population', Baluchistan gets more than its population as a proportion of the total population suggests.

Baluchistan only has a population of about 6 million - that is probably less than the current population of Lahore alone, which is why its revenue share has been so low, though it is higher than the other provinces on a per capita basis. I think they have a valid argument on the issue of allocating more resources to them on the basis of backwardness and size (Baluchistan is over 40% of Pakistan's territory), but even in a composite basket those criteria will have a relatively low weight - population will continue to be the largest factor in allocating resources, which is at it should be for the most part.

I think in the end what Baluchistan and the other provinces want is more fiscal and administrative accountability. As someone who believes in decentralization, I think that is important since it allows the people of every province to hold their provincial legislators accountable - what is the point of having massive provincial expenses in paying the salaries and perks of MPA's and provincial governments if they just pass the buck, for their failures, on to the Federal Government?

you forgot to mention pothwaris. Partition of punjab is long due although most of the saraikies and pothwaries are agreed on dividing punjab its not becoming a reality because of pml N. Few months back there was a strong move from the south of punjab to create a new province but because of the instability in malakand it was put under the carpet. The response of media was also not supported and they looked it as a conspiracy to blackmail to PMLN

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

you forgot to mention pothwaris. Partition of punjab is long due although most of the saraikies and pothwaries are agreed on dividing punjab its not becoming a reality because of pml N. Few months back there was a strong move from the south of punjab to create a new province but because of the instability in malakand it was put under the carpet. The response of media was also not supported and they looked it as a conspiracy to blackmail to PMLN

I agree with the decision to not partition Punjab it at this time - there are already too many complicating factors to deal with. Can you imagine having ten or more Provinces arguing over the NFC award and all of them pushing for their particular agenda instead of just four?

Once the four provinces reach a consensus on the basket of criteria that determines horizontal resource allocation, it will be simpler to then divvy up future resources between a larger number of provinces using the same formula. Hopefully we will also get the constitutional reforms that give the provinces more fiscal and administrative responsibility soon and that too will smooth the way for introducing newer provinces.

But anyway, lets not hijack the thread on the creation of the new Indian State.

 

[rajeev]

So who gets Hyderabad?

Hyderabad would be the capital of Telagana. Telgana seems to be defining its border to the historical nizam state.

Vishakapatanam is going to be the capital of rest of AP.

 

[Draft]

Hyderabad would be the capital of Telagana. Telgana seems to be defining its border to the historical nizam state.

Vishakapatanam is going to be the capital of rest of AP.

Isn't there any possiblity of it being a common capital like Chandigarh?

 

[rajeev]

Isn't there any possiblity of it being a common capital like Chandigarh?

Unlike Punjab and Haryana where Chandigarh was in border, Hyderabad is centrally located in the proposed Telgana state.

 

[Draft]

Will telangana be the only state getting created or rayalaseema too will be formed? I think this will force people of rayalaseema too to step up their campaign for a separate statehood if it is not considered now.

 

[destiny]

Isn't there any possiblity of it being a common capital like Chandigarh?

wasn't vijaywada the capital in older times, i.e when andhra and tamilnadu were one state

 

[rajeev]

wasn't vijaywada the capital in older times, i.e when andhra and tamilnadu were one state

Vijaywada the capital of Vijaynagar when today's TN, Kerala, Goa, southern AP and almost all of Karnataka was part of it. Vijaywada lost its signifiance when an emotionally rant and strategically blind king was killed in the war between him and Deccan Sultanates and they pillaged the capital after winning it.

 

[gogbot]

This sucks, here i am sitting watching the place i grew up, changed forever.

that bastard politician gets to be CM.

Fate of Hyderabad is uncertain.
who gets the Deccan chargers.

If Visakhapatanam(eastern naval headquarters) Becomes the capital.
It will loose that sleepy coastal city feel that made it so great.

This whole thing makes me uber bummed.

So in fools hope i ask the question

Is this whole thing just a political move, With no real action. ?

 

[rajeev]

This sucks, here i am sitting watching the place i grew up, changed forever.

that bastard politician gets to be CM.

Fate of Hyderabad is uncertain.
who gets the Deccan chargers.

If Visakhapatanam(eastern naval headquarters) Becomes the capital.
It will loose that sleepy coastal city feel that made it so great.

This whole thing makes me uber bummed.

So in fools hope i ask the question

Is this whole thing just a political move, With no real action. ?

Nope the fate for Telagana is decided. The demand now has increased to add more states like Northern WB, Four divisions to UP including one that carves out MP as well, another division of Bihar(??), etc. etc. - Politicians I guess are fighting hard to become CM

 

[Iggy]

Nope the fate for Telagana is decided. The demand now has increased to add more states like Northern WB, Four divisions to UP including one that carves out MP as well, another division of Bihar(??), etc. etc. - Politicians I guess are fighting hard to become CM

They found an easy way to become CMs.. BTW i visited Vishakapatanam its a cool city apart from the humidity..I really love that place..it is an ideal place for a new capital