Moscow airport bomb: suicide bombers were part of squad trained in Pakistan

[aakash_2410]

Telegraph is a British source...keep in mind.

You've got canadian flag youself and you doubt BRITISH source? lool Talk about the irony.

 

[aakash_2410]

Russia, till now has no PROOF to the allegations which the U.K source presented earlier.

Mate, there are 3 sources provided, one being british and other two are of the countries you represent yourself? Canada and Pakistan

 

[Hulk]

Mate, there are 3 sources provided, one being british and other two are of the countries you represent yourself? Canada and Pakistan

Media sources are no proof agreed about Pakistani's viewpoint on that one. But there are some things to ponder.

1) Countries do not just name other countries with having decent indication of their involvment. It might still be false, but there is something they know which can be true.

2) There are way too many countries who have blamed Pakistan. There cannot be smoke without fire.
(US, UK, Iran, Afghanistan and India)

3) There are some proved cases as well. E.g. Times Square Bombing, 26/11 are clearly proved to be done by people of Pakistan. I believe there are other examples too, which everyone is aware.

All the above means, had I been a Pakistani, I would surely not choose to just discard any such news that is published. I will surely like to see why we are figuring in so many cases. even if 25% of them are true and rest false alarms. The number is still very high.

The one impression I get from Pakistani's here, is they ask too much about proof. One thing you must know, internation crimes are not same as national.

1) There is no court which works across nations. ( There might be but not practially implemented).
2) It is way more difficult to prove it.
3) Proves will not be served over media, some details are exchanged between countries which are not public domain.

Even lot of murderes get away without getting punishment that does not mean there is no proof. It means implementation is difficult.

So bottom line just because someone cannot prove conslusively over a forum does not absolve you.

Any country cannot be continuesly blammed by pretty much everyone and that too without a reason.

 

[SMC]

^ Are you talking about state terrorism or individuals carrying out terrorism?

If you're talking about state terrorism then let me make it clear. India + Afghanistan + a few western countries (US didn't say anything such btw) does not equal everyone. Then there are a lot more arguments I can go into, and will go into, if you indeed specify you're talking about state terrorism.

 

[SMC]

Mate, there are 3 sources provided, one being british and other two are of the countries you represent yourself? Canada and Pakistan

Btw, if this was indeed the story, I am sure we would have heard it in a lot more papers. This is one of the biggest news at the moment, every major media outlet is covering it. Btw, they also mention Afghanistan, some obviously some Indians would not like to mention.

 

[Hulk]

^ Are you talking about state terrorism or individuals carrying out terrorism?

If you're talking about state terrorism then let me make it clear. India + Afghanistan + a few western countries (US didn't say anything such btw) does not equal everyone. Then there are a lot more arguments I can go into, and will go into, if you indeed specify you're talking about state terrorism.

Sorry nowhere I mentioned State in my quote.
I meant that there are too many incidence pointing your way and just shoving off saying you don't have a proof is not the right attitude.

Lot of people talk about Samjhota blast. What they don't talk about is, it was one case just one case discovered and how we acted on it.

It started with a Major and you know how difficult it is to jail and sitting army officer, but it happed fast and swift.

What is the result.

People thinking to join those people will think twice.

On other hand if state could have ignored it in the name of religion. It would encourage a lot of people.

How state acts on serious crimes matters.
I know a lot of trolls will twist this, but serious poster will find it worth.

 

[SMC]

Media sources are no proof agreed about Pakistani's viewpoint on that one. But there are some things to ponder.

1) Countries do not just name other countries with having decent indication of their involvment. It might still be false, but there is something they know which can be true.

2) There are way too many countries who have blamed Pakistan. There cannot be smoke without fire.
(US, UK, Iran, Afghanistan and India)

3) There are some proved cases as well. E.g. Times Square Bombing, 26/11 are clearly proved to be done by people of Pakistan. I believe there are other examples too, which everyone is aware.

All the above means, had I been a Pakistani, I would surely not choose to just discard any such news that is published. I will surely like to see why we are figuring in so many cases. even if 25% of them are true and rest false alarms. The number is still very high.

The one impression I get from Pakistani's here, is they ask too much about proof. One thing you must know, internation crimes are not same as national.

1) There is no court which works across nations. ( There might be but not practially implemented).
2) It is way more difficult to prove it.
3) Proves will not be served over media, some details are exchanged between countries which are not public domain.

Even lot of murderes get away without getting punishment that does not mean there is no proof. It means implementation is difficult.

So bottom line just because someone cannot prove conslusively over a forum does not absolve you.

Any country cannot be continuesly blammed by pretty much everyone and that too without a reason.

To add further, I am not sure whether you saying any of this has any effect on the reply you're responding to.

 

[SMC]

Sorry nowhere I mentioned State in my quote.
I meant that there are too many incidence pointing your way and just shoving off saying you don't have a proof is not the right attitude.

Lot of people talk about Samjhota blast. What they don't talk about is, it was one case just one case discovered and how we acted on it.

It started with a Major and you know how difficult it is to jail and sitting army officer, but it happed fast and swift.

What is the result.

People thinking to join those people will think twice.

On other hand if state could have ignored it in the name of religion. It would encourage a lot of people.

How state acts on serious crimes matters.
I know a lot of trolls will twist this, but serious poster will find it worth.

Well again, just because there may have been incidents in the past of this nature, not sure how it means that this news must definitely be reliable. I mean I can't even find this on most of the big media websites, just a few small-name media websites and perhaps 1 big website.

 

[IceCold]

had I been a Pakistani, I would surely not choose to just discard any such news that is published.

Actually i would and since you are not a Pakistani don't act like you know about Pakistan. Yes Pakistan is blamed every now and then but it has more to do with the pathetic foreign policy of Pakistan then anything else. Pakistan is just an easy scape goat. Man gets shot blame Pakistan, camel gets stolen blame Pakistan. This is the kind of attitude prevailing and recently it has become a norm to blame Pakistan for everything. So no surprise for us.
By the way Russia knows how volatile area the Pak Afghan border is and so if few did get trained there, that does not automatically comply that Pakistan is involved because we are not. Pakistan has nothing to gain from bombing Russian airport.

 

[IceCold]

Well again, just because there may have been incidents in the past of this nature, not sure how it means that this news must definitely be reliable. I mean I can't even find this on most of the big media websites, just a few small-name media websites and perhaps 1 big website.

Dont worry SMC, Indians have a habit to get carried away, specially when the news is Pakistan bashing. Remember the German Chancellor case and how Indian media twisted her words until they themselves clarified. So let Indian chew on their straw man argument, reality will be clear in a couple of days.

 

[SMC]

To add further, indianrabbit uses fallacious arguments. I mean an even larger amount of countries were saying that Iraq was developing or had WMDs. Was there smoke without fire in that case? Yes. I think indianrabbit is not taking into account something called interests. He is acting like there's no interests involved here. The interests here could be to blame another country/people for your own failure.

 

[DV RULES]

What does the bold part mean? Is this a threat by any chance? Russia, till now has no PROOF to the allegations which the U.K source presented earlier.

I liked the fact that Russia used a decent language but I am disappointed by the remarks of Russian FM.

If Russia wants to join NATO, don't pee on Pakistan.

Indirect meanings lead to understand indirectly. I gave you examples what FPs are adopted where concerns highest level of regional defense.

You have to study deeply what happened between Russia - UK.

What will be NATO if Russia join? where NATO formed against USSR and they can work jointly(NATO-Russia Council (NRC) formed in 2002) but joining NATO.....


This is off topic but where you rose question then it needs to clear you.

5 Reasons Why Russia Will Never Join NATO

1. NATO requires that its members have civilian and democratic control over their armed forces. This is a fundamental principal that allows for military integration and inter-operability among members. Although NATO countries have different political systems — some are presidential republics, others are parliamentary — they all have transparent defense budgets and public and legislative oversight over their countries’ military affairs. This includes independent investigations into military failures and abuses, parliamentary control over how funds are allocating — or not allocated — for weapons programs and constitutional checks and balances on a leader’s ability to send troops to fight in foreign military operations.

In Russia, however, civil control over the military is anathema to the basic principles of Prime Minister Vladimir Putin’s vertical power structure, which has effectively folded all three branches of power into one huge executive branch. Any autocratic power, by definition, rejects public accountability in all spheres of government — and this is particularly true for its armed forces. In Russia, a lack of public and parliamentary accountability allows the Defense Ministry to cover up the true scope of its inefficiencies, blunders and overall backwardness. In addition, a closed military structure also allows rampant corruption at all levels of the military to continue unchecked. As long as the vertical power structure is in place — whether it be headed by Putin or his successor — there will never be civilian control over the military.

Another reason why Russia will fiercely resist NATO’s requirement for transparency in military affairs is that it is hypersensitive about sharing its “military secrets” with NATO — particularly concerning its nuclear forces — even when its so-called secrets are well-known in the West. Nonetheless, a commitment to transparency is a basis for cooperation among NATO members.

2. Russia needs NATO as an “enemy,” not as an alliance partner. NATO is seen by conservative and nationalist forces that dominate the defense and security establishment as an inherently anti-Russian alliance. All the talk about NATO’s revised strategy and focus on new threats — terrorism, sea piracy, narcotics or cyberattacks — is a sham, we are told. The alliance’s real target remains Russia, just as it was during the Cold War. Even Dmitry Rogozin, Russia’s envoy to NATO, wrote on Twitter in March that NATO’s top brass to this day are developing military strategies and plans aimed against Russia.

This fear was reflected in Russia’s latest military strategy, published in February, in which NATO was listed as the country’s No.1 danger. Hardened NATO opponents within the political, military and government-controlled media elite are against any cooperation (including joint projects in Afghanistan) with the alliance, which they view as a tool for U.S. imperialist aggression and military expansion — “an iron leviathan that crushes all humanity,” as Maxim Shevchenko, host of Channel One’s “Sudite Sami” political talk show, described NATO in a September 2009 interview on Ekho Moskvy radio. As soon as Daalder and Yurgens floated the idea of possible NATO membership for Russia, the first thing we heard from many of these opponents was: “Beware of Greeks bearing gifts. This is another NATO trick.”

3. China. If Russia ever became a NATO member, it would extend the alliance’s territory to China, which has a 4,000-kilometer border with Russia. This would upset the tripolar global security balance between NATO, Russia and China, and it would cause China — which is just as suspicious of enemy conspiracy theories as Russia is — to believe that Russia and NATO are joining forces to “contain,” or even weaken, China. It is clearly not in the interests of Russia or the United States, which both have deep economic ties with China, to heighten tensions or provoke China, even if Beijing’s fears are exaggerated.

Moreover, we are told, the possibility that the United States’ or NATO’s next reckless military venture will be aimed at China (or Iran) should not be excluded. If this happens, Russia, as a NATO member, would automatically become a target for a Chinese (or Iranian) counterattack. To avoid this scenario, the argument goes, Russia should insist on strict military neutrality from NATO.

4. The Collective Security Treaty Organization. NATO membership would effectively mean the end of the CSTO, which Russia has worked so hard on since its creation in 2002 to compete with NATO for influence in the global security arena. “I believe it [Russia’s membership in NATO] is absurd,” said CSTO chief Nikolai Bordyuzha on Sept. 16. “What is the sense of NATO membership if Russia has created its own security framework with its allies and this system of collective security functions well?”

Rogozin, for his part, in an April 2009 interview with European-Asian News service, said: “We can handle our security problems independently. … We don’t need NATO.”

5. Russia’s global ambitions. Most important, Russian membership in NATO would all but mean the end of Russia’s dream of restoring its former superpower status. By joining NATO, Russia would effectively become “just another large European country” on the same level as Germany, Britain or France — a “sacrilege” for the derzhavniki, or great-power nationalists, who remember when the Soviet Union was much larger and more powerful than these three countries combined.

It would also be an admission that Russia is de facto subordinate to the United States in the world’s largest and most influential security organization, which is unacceptable even to moderate members of the political and military establishment. Although the Kremlin no longer has messianic ambitions to create a Third Rome or Third International, at the very least it will want to preserve its sovereignty and independence as a regional and global power. That will be impossible to accomplish if it becomes a member of NATO with the United States at the helm of the alliance.

The United States’ disingenuous peace feelers to Russia about NATO membership was clearly more PR and provocation than anything else. As President Dmitry Medvedev attends a NATO-Russia Council meeting in Lisbon on Saturday, it would be much better if both sides focus on smaller, more realistic NATO-Russian partnership projects — such as regional missile defense or fighting terrorism together — and forget once and for all about Russia ever becoming a member of NATO.

 

[iPhone]

So what is the verdict so far? Any word from Russian foreign office? Their foreign minister or the president or Russian media regarding the allegation? If not then why is thread still open?

 

[DV RULES]

In домодедовском the condemned man haven't identified Vitaly Razdobudko

28/01/2011

Russian Wahhabite Vitaly Razdobudko searched by law enforcement bodies wasn't the executor of the act of terrorism made on January, 24th of this year at the airport of Domodedovo.

As informs on January, 28th agency Life News, the experts who have spent comparative DNA-examination of biosamples, Vitaly Razdobudko taken from parents and the condemned man who has blown up in Domodedovo, have come to a conclusion that they don't coincide. In management of the information of investigatory committee of Russia (СК&#1056, investigating case about act of terrorism, the agency message have left «without comments», having referred to interests of the investigation. Thus it is known that any orders from СКР about the termination of search of Razdobudko in the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia didn't arrive yet. It is still searched as the missing person and as the possible participant «ногайского джамаата», making acts of terrorism in Stavropol Territory and preparing explosions in Moscow.

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[DV RULES]

The head of FSB in the closed mode will tell to deputies about act of terrorism in Domodedovo

Moscow, 28 янв - RIA Novosti news agency. The head of FSB Alexander Bortnikov in the closed mode will address to deputies of the State Duma on February, 8th on "the governmental hour" which will be devoted act of terrorism at the Moscow airport of Domodedovo, the chairman of committee on regulations of Otari Arshba at plenary session of the State Duma on Friday has informed.

According to the head of committee, Bortnikov himself has asked about performance in the closed mode.

The State Duma also waits on February, 8th at "the governmental o'clock" the head of Investigatory committee of the Russian Federation Alexander Bastrykina, the minister of transport Igor Levitina, Minister of Internal Affairs Rashida Nurgalieva and Public prosecutor Yury Chajku.

Explosion in the international terminal of the Moscow airport of Domodedovo has occurred in the afternoon on January, 24th. According to preliminary data, the suicide bomber who was in crowd meeting, has put in action the explosive filled with metal amazing elements capacity of 7 kgs in a trotyl equivalent. 35 persons were lost, 125 victims remain in hospitals.


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