More than a helping hand: Iran offers to provide 10,000MW

[Baby Leone]

more than a helping hand at the time when whole world is agianst Iran & they got only one neibour Pakistan who can take a stand in their favor.....soo why this helping hand now?
am not saying tht we should go against Iran but this gesture seems to be more favoring to iran than Pakistan
plus we dont need to import cz we have resources & capacity & if we use our own installed capacity we can even exports electricity.
where were they when in 2008 we go to IMF cz of the abnormal increase in oil prices? no favor of deffered payments at tht time?

 

[longbrained]

more than a helping hand at the time when whole world is agianst Iran & they got only one neibour Pakistan who can take a stand in their favor.....soo why this helping hand now?
am not saying tht we should go against Iran but this gesture seems to be more favoring to iran than Pakistan
plus we dont need to import cz we have resources & capacity & if we use our own installed capacity we can even exports electricity.
where were they when in 2008 we go to IMF cz of the abnormal increase in oil prices? no favor of deffered payments at tht time?

Pakistan doing favor for Iran? You must be joking. There is no such favor in international politics. Besides it is us that need the energy and have to sweat in 57 degree heat. Remember that. Iranians are doing well and have been sanctioned for over 33 years now and they have only thrived so it is nothing new for them. And by the "whole world", you mean US and Israel, I guess. Well, I have news for you, the world is bigger that the western countries, eg. it also includes countries like China.

You say we do not need to import. Good. Then stop talking like a politician on Geo TV and show us a rational way to solve the problem. Our installed capacity is roughly 20,000 MW and at any time it never can generate more than 14,000 MW because always some plants are down for maintenance and repair due to their age. Besides most of that 14,000 MW is coming from oil burning plants which produce very expensive electricity and not affordable for 99% of Pakistan. As I said in my above post, building new plants needs time and money. Pakistan is suffering economically and its people are paying the price. Iranians are not suffering in 57 degree heat without electricity. So it is us who need it more and not them, and all these projects had been proposed by Iran in 1990's and not now. Iran just keeps reminding it. This winter the gas situation was worst and according to Economic Survey of Pakistan, we will completely run out of all the gas in the country by 2025. And guess what 50% of all energy consumed in Pakistan is gas, it is used as cooking fuel, heating fuel, power plant fuel, transportation fuel, industrial fuel and even our urea fertilizers without which no large scale agriculture is possible is made from gas. That is the situation. It is not like we are favoring Iran. We are favoring ourselves when we go ahead and build the high pressure gas pipe line from Iran, since there is no alternative as all other sources are too expensive costing more than double that of Iranian gas (eg. LNG from Qatar) or very insecure (eg. TAPI):

 

[Fracker]

Power crisis isn't that big problem, all thanks to the government to making Power Monster to scare away the normal people. If someone really interested in removing this crisis then he should start working on nuclear and coal base energy. Electricity will boost pakistan industry and industry will bring the revenue to the country. Which can again be invested into more development programs...

 

[longbrained]

Power crisis isn't that big problem, all thanks to the government to making Power Monster to scare away the normal people. If someone really interested in removing this crisis then he should start working on nuclear and coal base energy. Electricity will boost pakistan industry and industry will bring the revenue to the country. Which can again be invested into more development programs...

And who is going to pay for the initial tens of billions of dollars to develop those resources? Kind of like chicken and egg situation, which one comes first? Our industries can not afford to pay billions of dollars to build power plants and with out power plants they can not make money.

 

[Cheetah786]

And who is going to pay for the initial tens of billions of dollars to develop those resources? Kind of like chicken and egg situation, which one comes first? Our industries can not afford to pay billions of dollars to build power plants and with out power plants they can not make money.

It makes me laugh how long brain you are struggling to explain some the obvious brother that's why the saying is people get the governments they deserve just cause the electricity is going to be coming from Iran they have a problem with it again we all no why that is and you are wasting your time explaining.

 

[Cheetah786]

Power crisis isn't that big problem, all thanks to the government to making Power Monster to scare away the normal people. If someone really interested in removing this crisis then he should start working on nuclear and coal base energy. Electricity will boost Pakistan industry and industry will bring the revenue to the country. Which can again be invested into more development programs...

well how about you start paying your fair share of taxes

 

[BATMAN]

And who is going to pay for the initial tens of billions of dollars to develop those resources? Kind of like chicken and egg situation, which one comes first? Our industries can not afford to pay billions of dollars to build power plants and with out power plants they can not make money.

You have limited capacity to analyse the power sector.

It is extremely stupid to import electricity, while investors are being taxed heavily for investing in alternate energy products and systems. On top of that anti Pakistan govt. creat lot of hurdles in the way of investor.

There are many ways to generate electricity locally and ignoring them just for the sake of imports, tells a lot about the corrupt regime.

In last few years individuals of Pakistan, have invested $billions in portable generators, batteries and UPS systems.
Now you see where the $billion lies and why people pay!!!

Foreign countries can only laugh at us on such decision, because only African countries with no human resource take such decision.

It is also not all about investment, its also about justice.

Clearly one mafia in Pakistan, who vote Zardari party are allowed to steal electricity openly, while rest of the Pakistan pay for it.

Not every one is idiot or blind in Pakistan.

If Zardari need help he shall stop stealing of electricity and i-m ashamed to tell you that no it is written in international statistic books that in Pakistan electricity losses are 40% of its production.

 

[Anish1]

Conventional power plants do not come cheap either. Any modern coal or natural gas power plant would cost upward of a billion dollars per each 1,000 MW capacity. In Pakistan the cost might go up even further due to the security situation and the premium on insurance and security costs for foreign companies coming to install them. Pakistan's shortage is hitting almost 10,000 MW and for that we need at least 15,000 MW of installed capacity. That comes to over 15 billion dollars if we go down the road with conventional power plants. If we build dams, it will be even more expensive to build such a capacity. Basha dam which is currently proposed has a capacity of over 4,400 MW and its cost estimated at 12.5 billion dollars. Additionally Pakistan is banned from getting modern nuclear power plants and is not in the same boat as India which gets nuclear reactors from US. Not only that but nuclear power plants are expensive to build and any modern nuclear reactor with a capacity of 1,000 MW would cost more than 5 billion dollars.

Pakistan's power requirement is growing at the rate of 9% per year which is huge. The problem is initial capital money to build plants and the time scale it takes to build such a large number of big plants which would take at least 10-15 years. That is why it is better to import electricity for the moment so that our economy and people do not suffer in this and the next decade until these plants are built. Lots of countries import their power for example Turkey or a lot of EU countries instead of letting their economy and people suffer.

Well you do have to spend money at some point. You said that dam costs $12.5bn and produces 4400MW thats more expensive than coal which is $1bn for 1000MW.
Natural gas is also a good option. Plus dams are far more insecure than coal power plants. Can be easily blown up and cause massive destruction everywhere.
UN carbon credits earned are peanuts even for Pakistan.

The chinese are setting up nuclear power plants i think they may be chinese quality but something better than nothing.

 

[longbrained]

You have limited capacity to analyse the power sector.

It is extremely stupid to import electricity, while investors are being taxed heavily for investing in alternate energy products and systems. On top of that anti Pakistan govt. creat lot of hurdles in the way of investor.

There are many ways to generate electricity locally and ignoring them just for the sake of imports, tells a lot about the corrupt regime.

In last few years individuals of Pakistan, have invested $billions in portable generators, batteries and UPS systems.
Now you see where the $billion lies and why people pay!!!

Foreign countries can only laugh at us on such decision, because only African countries with no human resource take such decision.

It is also not all about investment, its also about justice.

Clearly one mafia in Pakistan, who vote Zardari party are allowed to steal electricity openly, while rest of the Pakistan pay for it.

Not every one is idiot or blind in Pakistan.

If Zardari need help he shall stop stealing of electricity and i-m ashamed to tell you that no it is written in international statistic books that in Pakistan electricity losses are 40% of its production.

No. It is you who has a limited capacity to grasp things. Alternative energy? Do you know even what does it mean? I guess not. Iran is giving a continuous 10,000 MW option. To build such a thing in Pakistan we would need a higher capacity that 10,000 since providing continuous 10,000 requires perhaps 15,000 of capacity since at any time some plants are down for maintenance or other technical reasons and at the best of times we have never been able to use more than 70% of our total capacity. To build that 15,000 MW capacity in order to refuse this Iranian offer we would need to build many large power plants. It would cost tens of billions of dollars, that we do not have. IMF and World Bank are no more keen to provide Pakistan with money and aid. And can even we wait for 10 or 15 years till these large power plants become operational? Can we take the load shedding till then? Will our economy survive? The best medium term solution is Iran.

US aid is gone since US itself has economic problems and is trying to wind up things in Afghanistan and when they do that, the first morning after leaving Afghanistan US is going to put sanctions on Pakistan. That is a reality and that is history. When in 1990 US left Afghanistan, they put sanctions on Pakistan. This time it is going to be more severe. So where the money is going to come from. From Saudi Arabia? I highly doubt that Saudis are going to give us 40 billion dollars so that we build dams and power plants. They have never given more than a pittance and that also if we allowed them to build more madrassahs in Pakistan.

Summer is upon us. And people are going to suffer in heat. There is no end in sight. Pakistan's power needs are growing at a fast pace of 8% per year. It means that our power need is doubled every 9 years. That is by 2021 our summer peak power need has gone up from the current 18,000 MW to 36,000 MW. So building so many power plants in such a short notice is impossible both financially and time wise. In medium term we need to import and the best option is Iran. Other wise our economy and daily life will suffer for a long long time to come.

This is the alternative energy you are talking about:

Well you do have to spend money at some point. You said that dam costs $12.5bn and produces 4400MW thats more expensive than coal which is $1bn for 1000MW.
Natural gas is also a good option. Plus dams are far more insecure than coal power plants. Can be easily blown up and cause massive destruction everywhere.
UN carbon credits earned are peanuts even for Pakistan.

The chinese are setting up nuclear power plants i think they may be chinese quality but something better than nothing.

Yes, we will have to spend. Right now we are short of money because our economy is suffering due to power shortages mainly gas and electricity. But the most important thing is this. Even if we start building dams, it is going to take more than 10 or 15 years to complete them and make them operational. In the mean time we need a medium term solution. The coal power plant is cheaper to build initially than a dam but with the dam you do not need to buy coal so in a long term operation of let's say 40 years, the dam is going to produce cheaper electricity.

Chinese nuclear reactors are mostly generation 2.5 or 3. They are not bad. But they are also expensive and take time to build.

 

[longbrained]

Pakistan signs 1000MW electricity import agreement with Iran

Pakistan signs 1000MW electricity import agreement with Iran | DAWN.COM

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan signed an agreement with Iran on the import of 1000MW electricity on Thursday.


The agreement was signed between the Pakistani delegation, headed by Managing Director NTDCL Rasul Khan Mahsud and deputy Iranian Minister for Energy, Muhammad Behzad.

The spokesman of National Transmission and Despatch Company Limited (NTDCL) said in a statement that according to the agreement, 70 per cent of the funding for the project will be provided by the Iranian government whereas 30 per cent will be arranged by the Pakistan government.

The spokesman informed about the project that it will be completed in 3 years. As per the negotiations between the two delegations, the rate of electricity was finalized 8 cents per unit whereas in case of rise in the oil prices on the international market, a maximum of 11 cents will be charged.

The spokesman further said that the signing of 1000MW of electricity import from Iran is the outcome of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmedinajad’s last visit to Pakistan, where President Asif Ali Zardari and Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani had shown interest in importing power from Iran to mitigate the prevailing energy crisis in the country.

Federal Minister for Water and Power Syed Naveed Qamar, who made great efforts for dispatching a negotiation team to Iran for purchasing electricity, said that the government is taking all steps to facilitate the people of Pakistan.

With the import of electricity from Iran, Syed Naveed Qamar said that industrial, commercial and domestic consumers off the coast of Makran and Balochistan will also benefit and will increase economic development in the area.

 

[ashok321]

So its ten percent of the headline.....just 1000 mw n not 10,000 lol

 

[longbrained]

So its ten percent of the headline.....just 1000 mw n not 10,000 lol

Something is better than nothing. Frankly I do not know why they did not accept the 10,000 MW offer as it would have solved the problem altogether. At 8 cents a unit, it is cheap and very much affordable as it comes to something like PK Rs. 7.25 per unit.

 

[longbrained]

So its ten percent of the headline.....just 1000 mw n not 10,000 lol

And at any rate it is going to be cheaper than Indian offer at Rs. 15 : India offers electricity at Rs15 per unit | DAWN.COM

 

[lem34]

And at any rate it is going to be cheaper than Indian offer at Rs. 15 : India offers electricity at Rs15 per unit | DAWN.COM

Mate the Iranians do drive a hard bargain. I noticed that one of the reasons that Pakistan and India were both falling over each other over TAPI was because the price offered was cheap.

I think that Iran should also have given a deal to India and Pakistan that even India would have ignored American pressure and joined IPI

I do wonder how much is politics and how much price sensitive?

 

[longbrained]

Mate the Iranians do drive a hard bargain. I noticed that one of the reasons that Pakistan and India were both falling over each other over TAPI was because the price offered was cheap.

I think that Iran should also have given a deal to India and Pakistan that even India would have ignored American pressure and joined IPI

I do wonder how much is politics and how much price sensitive?

Agreed, but the situation is really not good in Pakistan. There is a big shortage of electricity and the price of electricity is now over Rs. 18 per unit and if you consume more than 1000 units per month then you have even to pay twice that. How much does it cost in UK?