More Talwar Class Frigates for Indian Navy

[Abingdonboy]

What are we going to do with 3 CBGs? We are not America that we would deploy carrier fleet in different part of worlds . Not to mention it is damn expensive .
IMHO, Navy should invest money on Andaman. Protect it with multi layered SAMs. Buy more Mig29k.
IMHO, we do not need more than 2 CBGs. Atleast 1 could be active all the time.

The IN is actively working to have 5-6 CBGs by 2035-40 as per their own long term planning. By this time the Indian economy will be the second largest economy on the planet (or perhaps the largest) and it will be necessary to protect India's sea lines of communication as well as projecting its "hard power".

As pointed out, these a long term plans- India won't be supporting 3 CBGs on a meagre $40BN/year defence budget.



As for developing the A&N islands- this is already being done at a considerable pace since the new GoI entered into office.

new Talwar class frigates from Russia through Reliance Defense, which was earlier planned for Russian Navy, those three ships are almost completed without having the engine/power plant, due to the Ukrainian issue, they denied to supply the Zorya gas turbine engines to Russia, So Russia has no plans either scrap the Ships or transfer to Friendly country's who maintain peace with both Russia and Ukraine, Earlier Russia openly offered the Ships to India, however


Can someone tell me why the Ambanis are making money on this?

They are eligible to make money just as L&T, TATA and any other private player is if they receive orders from the GoI. I'm not a fan of Reliance but this is how business goes.

Lollz. They weren't 'smart'. They got inside info and firmed up future tenders by bribing the def min. Then arm twisted the likes of Pipavav to sell out to them. Why would Pipavav want to sell to the Ambanis when a huge wave of contracts is underway?

It is impossible to know what the financial situation was of the previous owners of Pipavav when they sold to Reliance- the future orders may have been too distant a prospect for the previous owners of Pipavav to hold out for. You can't tell your creditors you will pay them when you get XYZ order that you think are on their way.

The M&A world is littered with these kinds of stories- owners selling out on the cusp of major success for their business because their financial position had become untenable at the time.

Exactly my thought. Buying this ship is a political risk, it can piss of the Ukranians.

So what? What do the Ukrainians have to offer India? The largest defence deal they have ever done with India (or anyone for that matter) was the upgrade of the IAF's AN-32 fleet to the RE standard and even this seems to have hit trouble with the current hostilities.

such claims of a 'philanthropic' buy, Anil Ambani will be walking away with a very very pretty profit.

Of course he will but he is a shrewd businessman so this is no surprise.

Their entry into the defence business itself was made to corner defence expenditure. And don't fall for these kinds of articles. In a booming Industry managing debt is not as much a problem as it looks.

Actually the industry is on the cups of booming but hasn't boomed just as yet (at least not for the private players). What orders had Pipavav received to date? Not a huge amount but yes, they are now looking at MASSIVE orders however that is still 1-2 years away and the previous owners may have been in no position to hold out for that long.

 

[raktaka]

So what? What do the Ukrainians have to offer India? The largest defence deal they have ever done with India (or anyone for that matter) was the upgrade of the IAF's AN-32 fleet to the RE standard and even this seems to have hit trouble with the current hostilities.

These ships RUN on Ukraine-built gas turbine engines (GTEs).

Without those these "ships" are just a bunch of scrap metal welded together.

Instead of trading political favours for getting the GTE, Ambani might get them by offering money to the right Ukrainian politician and contractor.

Its a lot easier, a lot less messier and a lot less risky for GoI.

 

[Abingdonboy]

These ships RUN on Ukraine-built gas turbine engines (GTEs).

Without those these "ships" are just a bunch of scrap metal welded together.

Instead of trading political favours for getting the GTE, Ambani might get them by offering money to the right Ukrainian politician and contractor.

Its a lot easier, a lot less messier and a lot less risky for GoI.

I'm sure this is part of the deal, the IN wouldn't buy ships without propulsion. The Ukrainians need money now more than ever.

 

[raktaka]

I'm sure this is part of the deal, the IN wouldn't buy ships without propulsion. The Ukrainians need money now more than ever.

Which is why the IN is NOT buying these ships.

Ambani is buying the ships and the GTE...... and then when its complete, IN will buy it.

That is how Risk Mitigation is done. For the Ambani, if IN does not buy it, he is free to find new buyers for this excellent war machine. Its win win if it plays out correctly.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

The IN is actively working to have 5-6 CBGs by 2035-40 as per their own long term planning. By this time the Indian economy will be the second largest economy on the planet (or perhaps the largest) and it will be necessary to protect India's sea lines of communication as well as projecting its "hard power".

As pointed out, these a long term plans- India won't be supporting 3 CBGs on a meagre $40BN/year defence budget.



As for developing the A&N islands- this is already being done at a considerable pace since the new GoI entered into office.


They are eligible to make money just as L&T, TATA and any other private player is if they receive orders from the GoI. I'm not a fan of Reliance but this is how business goes.


It is impossible to know what the financial situation was of the previous owners of Pipavav when they sold to Reliance- the future orders may have been too distant a prospect for the previous owners of Pipavav to hold out for. You can't tell your creditors you will pay them when you get XYZ order that you think are on their way.

The M&A world is littered with these kinds of stories- owners selling out on the cusp of major success for their business because their financial position had become untenable at the time.


So what? What do the Ukrainians have to offer India? The largest defence deal they have ever done with India (or anyone for that matter) was the upgrade of the IAF's AN-32 fleet to the RE standard and even this seems to have hit trouble with the current hostilities.


Of course he will but he is a shrewd businessman so this is no surprise.



Actually the industry is on the cups of booming but hasn't boomed just as yet (at least not for the private players). What orders had Pipavav received to date? Not a huge amount but yes, they are now looking at MASSIVE orders however that is still 1-2 years away and the previous owners may have been in no position to hold out for that long.

Everyone is 'eligible to make money', but unethical practices are curbed in every country including the ones capitalistic countries like the US. AMbanis make massive political donations to the BJP and somehow so many contracts going to them is 'natural'. Hell these guys were just selling oil and textiles until a few months ago. This is called 'ROI'. Pay money to Ambanis and when Modi comes to power he starts routing major contracts to them as rewards. This is called Crony Capitalism. And this is not limited only to them. Hell the Adanis were all out to get a Billion Dollar unsecured loan until the blatancy of it all pushed the State Bank to a corner. Modi is selling out to Capitalists

 

[egodoc222]

Everyone is 'eligible to make money', but unethical practices are curbed in every country including the ones capitalistic countries like the US. AMbanis make massive political donations to the BJP and somehow so many contracts going to them is 'natural'. Hell these guys were just selling oil and textiles until a few months ago. This is called 'ROI'. Pay money to Ambanis and when Modi comes to power he starts routing major contracts to them as rewards. This is called Crony Capitalism. And this is not limited only to them. Hell the Adanis were all out to get a Billion Dollar unsecured loan until the blatancy of it all pushed the State Bank to a corner. Modi is selling out to Capitalists

Nice post!! Its like you suddenly woke up from coma after 60 yrs!!

 

[SR-91]

Plan is to deploy one CBG on each side( Eastern naval command and Western naval command) as per our new doctrine and 3 CBGs will ensure that atleast 2 of them will be active at any given time.
And no doubt A&N Islands have their own advantages and they will play a role irrespective of CBGs. Currently they have four aitbases( 1 for airforce, 3 for navy) and atleast 2 of them can handle all types of aircrafts while rest 2 are being upgraded as we speak to do same. We have a planned submarine base there too though this might take some more time for obvious reasons. Plan to deploy SAMs and coastal batteries are there too.

A&N islands will be India's HAWAII base.

So in the end Indian navy end up getting..
3 Kolkata class(AESA+ Barak-8+ Brahmos).
4 Visakhapatnam class( AESA+ Barak-8ER+ Brahmos).
7 P-17A. (AESA+ Barak-8ER+ Brahmos).

9 Talwar class ( Brahmos)
3 Shivalik class( Brahmos/Klub)
3 Delhi class ( Brahmos is planned in MLU).

That's a total of 14 aegis comparable stealth warships along othe 15 other very potent Brahmos equipped warships including 12 stealth warships.
PS: I am talking only about destroyers and frigates.

If economy stays intact, these numbers should double. No one will dare cast a evil eye on us then.

 

[kaykay]

A&N islands will be India's HAWAII base.

Apparently they will be. Apart from other things expect a dedicated army division(10000-15000 troops) for A&N Islands too as right now theres a brigade there( 3000-4000 troops).

 

[SR-91]

The IN is actively working to have 5-6 CBGs by 2035-40 as per their own long term planning. By this time the Indian economy will be the second largest economy on the planet (or perhaps the largest) and it will be necessary to protect India's sea lines of communication as well as projecting its "hard power".
As pointed out, these a long term plans- India won't be supporting 3 CBGs on a meagre $40BN/year defence budget.

Don't forget to add 4 LHD group.

Apparently they will be. Apart from other things expect a dedicated army division(10000-15000 troops) for A&N Islands too as right now theres a brigade there( 3000-4000 troops).

Air force will place SU-30, if not already there. IAF will also increase number of operational airfields.
Navy, It will be Navy's one of the biggest bases with more than 20 warships based there.
Coast Guard is there too with Saryu Class OPV and Fast Attack Crafts.
Brahmos Batteries, ABM's and much much more.

 

[Archie]

I never get why the Navy is so infatuation with CBGs,

A Carrier Battle group is useless unless it matches the fire power of the American CBG

If all you intend to do is set fire to Gwader and Karachi, then Vikramaditya and Vikrant along with their complement of Mig29Ks are enough

However for anything else like a confrontation with China, you need a much better CBG

A single 65000 Ton carrier along with its complement of 36 Fixed wing aircrafts and 8-10 Helis will cost 15 Billion USD
If the air wing comprises of Rafale M or F35C
It could be much cheaper if F/A18 is chosen

This money is better utilized in purchasing 12 Brand new Minesweepers, 100 NMRH, 6 additional Scorpenes and another 30 Mig29K for the navy

 

[black-hawk_101]

Talwar-class frigate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Admiral Grigorovich-class frigate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Its because of Power Plant. I am sure if Russia will offer IN their last carrier then IN will going to buy it too with some more MiG-29Ks.

 

[kaykay]

Talwar-class frigate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Admiral Grigorovich-class frigate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Its because of Power Plant. I am sure if Russia will offer IN their last carrier then IN will going to buy it too with some more MiG-29Ks.

No more aircraft carriers from Russia. But India is seriously considering atleast one more Akula class SSN.

 

[black-hawk_101]

No more aircraft carriers from Russia. But India is seriously considering atleast one more Akula class SSN.

I think but not so sure that Russia can easily sell out of all their Akulas to IN if India is ready to pay for it.

 

[Ankit Kumar 001]

If India shows even 50% of the proactiveness which China shows, we can get 3 Akulas updated fully. And mind it, these Akulas are better all its Chinese counterparts.

 

[kaykay]

I think but not so sure that Russia can easily sell out of all their Akulas to IN if India is ready to pay for it.

Well they are ready to sell even 3rd Akula let alone 2nd for which talks are going on as we speak.

India to Lease a Second Nuclear Submarine From Russia - NDTV

India in talks with Russia to lease new modern, world-class nuclear attack submarine - The Economic Times