More bad news for Delhi: Mig 35s delayed by a decade

[Ali.009]

More bad news for Delhi: Mig 35s delayed by a decade​

After the colossla failure of the Kevari engine and the Ligh Combat Aircraft (LCA), which has been in the design phase for more than 20 years, the IAF is struggling to replace its Flying Coffins (Migs 21s). The crash rate of the IAF is the highest in the world. About 300-500 Mig 21s have crashed. Delhi blames Moscow for sending it shoddy planes. Moscow blames Delhi for horrid local parts that don’t work. Desperate for planes, the IAF decided to spend about $10 Billion for foreign air craft. The tender bid for 126 planes has been submitted and a final decision is awaited in a few weeks. The MiG-35 Fulcrum-F, is a stripped down version of the Russian MiG-29M OVT which is exported to third world countries. When, and if, the MiG-35 wins a contract for the Indian MMRCA or any other tender, Sokol would be the manufacturing base for the aircraft. Russia has remianed very vague about the final configuration of the MiG-35’s onboard equipment. There is no information available on the On Board radar. The Zhuk-ME, Bars-29, and ELTA Systems’ EL/M-2052 radars are possible options.

NOVOGORD – Production of MiG-35 multirole fighters offered for sale to India cannot start before 2013 or 2014, a Russian aircraft maker has said.

“We have begun testing the MiG-35 fighter for the Indian tender,” Alexander Karezin, general director of the Sokol company based in Nizhny Novgorod, said Thursday.

Russia’s MiG-35 Fulcrum-F, an export version of the MiG-29M OVT (Fulcrum F), is a highly manoeuvrable air superiority fighter, which won high acclaim during the Le Bourget air show in France last year.

Six major aircraft makers — Lockheed and Boeing from the US, Russia’s MiG, which is part of the UAC, France’s Dassault, Sweden’s Saab and the EADS consortium of British, German, Spanish and Italian companies — are in contention to win the $10 billion contract for 126 light fighters to be supplied to the Indian Air Force (IAF).

Sokol earlier said that the first two MiG-35 aircraft would be delivered to India in August for test flights prior to the award of the tender. In late 2009, Russia will conduct a series of flight tests with live firing for an IAF delegation at a testing ground in Russia.

The fighter is powered by RD-33 OVT thrust vectoring engines. The RD-33 OVT engines provide superior manoeuvrability and enhance the fighter’s performance in close air engagements, its manufacturers say. RIA Novosti

The export versions of Mig 35s are actually part of the family of MiG-29 fighters that includes the MiG-29M/M2 and the MiG-29K/KUB versions. Lockheed Martin, Saab and Russian Sukho and Migs have all put in thier offer.

Six global aircraft makers – Lockheed and Boeing from the United States, Russia’s MiG, which is part of the UAC, France’s Dassault, Sweden’s Saab and the EADS consortium of British, German, Spanish and Italian companies – are in contention for the $11 billion MMRCA contract for 126 fighters to be supplied to the Indian Air Force. Domain B

The issue is that American private manufacturers will never commit commercial suicide by giving up their secret “Coke Formula“. Similarly one of the biggest exports for Russia are her planes and missiles. It cannot let a Delhi aligned with Washington have the ability to compete with the Russian arms industry. A decade ago when USSR did not have the oil and it was really hungry for cash, Moscow sold Bharat a lot of equipment. Now things have changed. “Russia’s state arms exporter Rosoboronexport has said military aircraft will continue to dominate the company’s foreign sales in 2009, and will total about $2.6 billion (Domain B).” The geostrategic landscape in South Asia has been transformed. Moscow watches Delhi’s closeness with Washington with suspicion. Russia has recently reached out to Pakistan to build train and pipelines linking Pakistan to the Tajikistan and Iran. Gorprom, the Russian Oil company is ready to help in building the Iran-Pakistan pipeline.

The fiasco of the price of the Russian Aircraft carrier describes the Delhi-Moscow relationship. The endless haggling over the price of the air craft career predicted Delhi’s predicament on the sale of the Mig 35s. Moscow now informs Delhi that it cannot begin the supply ’till 2014. Based on previous experience, it is a matter of record that planes from Russia are prone to perpetual delays and price hikes. It is not beyond comprehension that sensing a bit of a tiff between Delhi and Washington, Russia is using delay tactics to hike up the price of the Migs that are to be sold to Bharat.

Will the Mig delay tilt the balance towards Lockheed Martin? Only time will tell.

When Russian President Dmitry Medvedev visited the shipyard responsible for converting the aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov for the Indian navy at the beginning of last month, he suggested there would be “serious consequences” if Moscow failed to deliver.

Political hyperbole aside, the fall-out from India’s effort to secure a new aircraft carrier could turn out to be far-reaching. Aviation Week. Russia, India Continue Carrier Haggling, Aug 13, 2009, By Neelam Mathews in New Delhi and Douglas Barrie in London

The threat supposedly hinted at the $10 Billion plane contract. The current news from Ria Ovosti seems to tell the world how much Russia has taken the Bharati threat seriously.

Medvedev, during a visit to the Sevmash shipyard at Severodvinsk, characterized the carrier program as a “very difficult experience.” This is a view shared by India’s comptroller and auditor general, the authority that audits and assists the state and central institutions on accounts and accountability.

The audit body has been critical of the carrier deal, providing opposition parties with ammunition with which to attack the government. One, the Bhartiya Janta Party, accused the government of buying “junk” at an exorbitant price.

India signed up for the program in 2004, with a delivery date of 2008. The new date for the ship—the INS Vikramaditya—is now set for 2012. Aviation Week. Russia, India Continue Carrier Haggling, Aug 13, 2009, By Neelam Mathews in New Delhi and Douglas Barrie in London

The 12 MiG-29Ks and four MiG-29KUBs, a naval variant of the Fulcrum that came with the Admiral Gorshkov will be delivered a year late. The planes arrive before the Aircraft carrier. However these are meant to land on the Aircraft Career only.

The entire Bharati establishment is built around refurbishing arcane Russian equipment. Introducing Amercan arms with their instrusive inspections, requirements for segration, and pop inspections is going to be a new experience for the IAF. Rupee News would be very surprised if Bharat buys the F-16s. However stranger things have happened in the Bharati quest for modern arms.

 

[BSF]

Rupee news...Yiyye.. The only news established not controlled by the Zionist.

Its controlled by Lunatics.

 

[agastya]

oh god i am stupified ,horrified,petrified and mortified

 

[Brahm0s]

Hi friend. Its very good news. It made new delhi's tension bit less because if mig-35 would have not pick by india without any reason than it would have been alot damaging to indo-russia relation. Am very sure that india told russia secretly that mig-35 wont be picked up by india. Instead mig-35 india would be ready pay the amount russia wants for aircraft carrier and also india will buy other russian weapons. Now after this news it made clear that mig-35 aint gonna win. That made india's tension low. My eyes are on typhoon (not by money but by quality). India wont ever pick up F-16 because that would give pakistan advantage as they flown and flying F-16 for decades. F-18 super hornet wont win. Usa not ready to give all technology. Now rafael and typhoon remain. Both are top jet fighters. France even ready to give anything india wants including technology to make powerful engines. Rafael lethel jet fighter but typhoon is the 'only one' after F-22 which known as lethelest of lethel jet fighter. Even american pilots impressed by typhoon. Now typhoon expensive but should india always thinks of money or atleast go for best quality jet fighter and thats 'Typhoon'. India should pick up Typhoon. Am praying to god that india will go for typhoon.

 

[beckham]

oh god i am stupified ,horrified,petrified and mortified

SAME HERE......

 

[pmukherjee]

More bad news for Delhi: Mig 35s delayed by a decade​

Oh No it is a tragedy really. But actually for Islamabad really and not for Delhi as now India would be forced to buy the best fighters in the world, either the F/A-18s or the Eurofighters.​

 

[manojb]

Its a good news, at least this will not end up like gorshkov blackmail!

 

[Mig-29]

Nothing is bad news as long as you have the money , there are lots of other options.

 

[maverick2009]

fantastic Typhoons all the way please

 

[indian_pm]

I m still doubtful about GOI ....Coz GOI is partially running by those agent who funded by CIA .....so Either PM manmohan or Sonia gandhi will force our IAF to buy American jets rather than typhoon or else.......This attitude or activity of these shameless politicians taking the lives of our soldiers......
so dont think much about typhoon the MRCA deal winner would be surely an American firm......

 

[Brahm0s]

I m still doubtful about GOI ....Coz GOI is partially running by those agent who funded by CIA .....so Either PM manmohan or Sonia gandhi will force our IAF to buy American jets rather than typhoon or else.......This attitude or activity of these shameless politicians taking the lives of our soldiers......
so dont think much about typhoon the MRCA deal winner would be surely an American firm......

Friend you are right but i dont think IAF would let goverment do anything goverment wants. Today media playing big role. If goverment force IAF to go for F-18 super hornet than all the inside news would be leaked into media to show indian people that goverment forcing IAF. F-18 is known for navy based jet fighter more than land based. India choosing jet fighter for airforce and not navy. F-18 super hornets are similar to sukhoi-30MKI. While typhoon bit better than both in performence and its lethel. IAF should pick up typhoon my friend. Am sure typhoon will win because our neighbour china dont have typhoon while they do have Sukhoi-30Mkk (not upto level of sukhoi-30MKI but still good jet fighter). Typhoon would keep our neighbours incheck. Typhoon to be honest is really a typhoon. IAF knows what is best and i hope IAF will pick up typhoon and if not than rafael.

 

[sonicboom]

More bad news for Delhi: Mig 35s delayed by a decade

Posted on August 15, 2009 by Moin Ansari

After the colossla failure of the Kevari engine and the Ligh Combat Aircraft (LCA), which has been in the design phase for more than 20 years, the IAF is struggling to replace its Flying Coffins (Migs 21s). The crash rate of the IAF is the highest in the world. About 300-500 Mig 21s have crashed. Delhi blames Moscow for sending it shoddy planes. Moscow blames Delhi for horrid local parts that don’t work. Desperate for planes, the IAF decided to spend about $10 Billion for foreign air craft. The tender bid for 126 planes has been submitted and a final decision is awaited in a few weeks. The MiG-35 Fulcrum-F, is a stripped down version of the Russian MiG-29M OVT which is exported to third world countries. When, and if, the MiG-35 wins a contract for the Indian MMRCA or any other tender, Sokol would be the manufacturing base for the aircraft. Russia has remianed very vague about the final configuration of the MiG-35’s onboard equipment. There is no information available on the On Board radar. The Zhuk-ME, Bars-29, and ELTA Systems’ EL/M-2052 radars are possible options.

NIZHNY NOVOGORD – Production of MiG-35 multirole fighters offered for sale to India cannot start before 2013 or 2014, a Russian aircraft maker has said.

“We have begun testing the MiG-35 fighter for the Indian tender,” Alexander Karezin, general director of the Sokol company based in Nizhny Novgorod, said Thursday.

Russia’s MiG-35 Fulcrum-F, an export version of the MiG-29M OVT (Fulcrum F), is a highly manoeuvrable air superiority fighter, which won high acclaim during the Le Bourget air show in France last year.

Six major aircraft makers — Lockheed and Boeing from the US, Russia’s MiG, which is part of the UAC, France’s Dassault, Sweden’s Saab and the EADS consortium of British, German, Spanish and Italian companies — are in contention to win the $10 billion contract for 126 light fighters to be supplied to the Indian Air Force (IAF).

Sokol earlier said that the first two MiG-35 aircraft would be delivered to India in August for test flights prior to the award of the tender. In late 2009, Russia will conduct a series of flight tests with live firing for an IAF delegation at a testing ground in Russia.

The fighter is powered by RD-33 OVT thrust vectoring engines. The RD-33 OVT engines provide superior manoeuvrability and enhance the fighter’s performance in close air engagements, its manufacturers say. RIA Novosti

The export versions of Mig 35s are actually part of the family of MiG-29 fighters that includes the MiG-29M/M2 and the MiG-29K/KUB versions. Lockheed Martin, Saab and Russian Sukho and Migs have all put in thier offer.

Six global aircraft makers – Lockheed and Boeing from the United States, Russia’s MiG, which is part of the UAC, France’s Dassault, Sweden’s Saab and the EADS consortium of British, German, Spanish and Italian companies – are in contention for the $11 billion MMRCA contract for 126 fighters to be supplied to the Indian Air Force.

The issue is that American private manufacturers will never commit commercial suicide by giving up their secret “Coke Formula“. Similarly one of the biggest exports for Russia are her planes and missiles. It cannot let a Delhi aligned with Washington have the ability to compete with the Russian arms industry. A decade ago when USSR did not have the oil and it was really hungry for cash, Moscow sold Bharat a lot of equipment. Now things have changed. “Russia’s state arms exporter Rosoboronexport has said military aircraft will continue to dominate the company’s foreign sales in 2009, and will total about $2.6 billion (Domain B).” The geostrategic landscape in South Asia has been transformed. Moscow watches Delhi’s closeness with Washington with suspicion. Russia has recently reached out to Pakistan to build train and pipelines linking Pakistan to the Tajikistan and Iran. Gozprom, the Russian Oil company is ready to help in building the Iran-Pakistan pipeline.

The fiasco of the price of the Russian Aircraft carrier describes the Delhi-Moscow relationship. The endless haggling over the price of the air craft career predicted Delhi’s predicament on the sale of the Mig 35s. Moscow now informs Delhi that it cannot begin the supply ’till 2014. Based on previous experience, it is a matter of record that planes from Russia are prone to perpetual delays and price hikes. It is not beyond comprehension that sensing a bit of a tiff between Delhi and Washington, Russia is using delay tactics to hike up the price of the Migs that are to be sold to Bharat.

Will the Mig delay tilt the balance towards Lockheed Martin? Only time will tell.

When Russian President Dmitry Medvedev visited the shipyard responsible for converting the aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov for the Indian navy at the beginning of last month, he suggested there would be “serious consequences” if Moscow failed to deliver.

Political hyperbole aside, the fall-out from India’s effort to secure a new aircraft carrier could turn out to be far-reaching. Aviation Week. Russia, India Continue Carrier Haggling, Aug 13, 2009, By Neelam Mathews in New Delhi and Douglas Barrie in London

The threat supposedly hinted at the $10 Billion plane contract. The current news from Ria Ovosti seems to tell the world how much Russia has taken the Bharati threat seriously.

Medvedev, during a visit to the Sevmash shipyard at Severodvinsk, characterized the carrier program as a “very difficult experience.” This is a view shared by India’s comptroller and auditor general, the authority that audits and assists the state and central institutions on accounts and accountability.

The audit body has been critical of the carrier deal, providing opposition parties with ammunition with which to attack the government. One, the Bhartiya Janta Party, accused the government of buying “junk” at an exorbitant price.

India signed up for the program in 2004, with a delivery date of 2008. The new date for the ship—the INS Vikramaditya—is now set for 2012. Aviation Week. Russia, India Continue Carrier Haggling, Aug 13, 2009, By Neelam Mathews in New Delhi and Douglas Barrie in London

The 12 MiG-29Ks and four MiG-29KUBs, a naval variant of the Fulcrum that came with the Admiral Gorshkov will be delivered a year late. The planes arrive before the Aircraft carrier. However these are meant to land on the Aircraft Career only.

The entire Bharati establishment is built around refurbishing arcane Russian equipment. Introducing Amercan arms with their instrusive inspections, requirements for segration, and pop inspections is going to be a new experience for the IAF. Rupee News would be very surprised if Bharat buys the F-16s. However stranger things have happened in the Bharati quest for modern arms.

 

[xebex]

thread already exists. Mod, please merg this thread. thanks.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/31815-more-bad-news-delhi.html

EDIT: thanks for merging both.

 

[pmukherjee]

Friend you are right but i dont think IAF would let goverment do anything goverment wants. Today media playing big role. If goverment force IAF to go for F-18 super hornet than all the inside news would be leaked into media to show indian people that goverment forcing IAF. F-18 is known for navy based jet fighter more than land based. India choosing jet fighter for airforce and not navy. F-18 super hornets are similar to sukhoi-30MKI. While typhoon bit better than both in performence and its lethel. IAF should pick up typhoon my friend. Am sure typhoon will win because our neighbour china dont have typhoon while they do have Sukhoi-30Mkk (not upto level of sukhoi-30MKI but still good jet fighter). Typhoon would keep our neighbours incheck. Typhoon to be honest is really a typhoon. IAF knows what is best and i hope IAF will pick up typhoon and if not than rafael.

Yes, but Typhoons dont have AESA radar, the rdr is under development. Typhoon also has no combat experience-the F/A-18 is combat proven with many kills. Another factor which may be a handicap is the production of Typhoon is hugely dispersed. Different components are made in different countries in Europe. Moreover, the F/A-18 being carrier capable does not become a handicap for the Air Force, its a bonus. I am not favouring the Super Hornet, only putting the records straight. Personally I favour the Typhoon but I feel that F/A-18 has an edge. It is the US end user agreements that are painful.

 

[pmukherjee]

Here are the beauties

F/A-18d Super Hornet

Eurofighter Typhoon

Mig-35

Rafale

SAAB Gripen


The comparison is as under:-


Saturday, 15 August 2009
Duel in the sky: Testing the MMRCAs and rating their chances
by Ajai Shukla
Business Standard, 15th August 09
Face-to-face: rating their chances

F/A-18 Super Hornet: Overall chances: COOL

Pros
1. Battle-tested, frontline fighter with the US Navy
2. Powerful, agile, rugged, designed for aircraft carriers
3. Advanced avionics and missile systems
4. Can function as refuelling tanker with external fuel tanks
5. Fields fully-operational and deployed Raytheon APG-79 AESA radar

Cons
1. US restrictions on modifications and end usage
2. Earlier generation design, dating back to 1980s
3. Heavy, 30-ton aircraft, expensive

F-16IN Super Viper: Overall chances: WARM

Pros
1. Tested modern fighter, has logged over 100,000 combat missions globally
2. Single-engine, 19-tonne fighter, price competitive
3. Advanced avionics and missile systems
4. Advanced Northrop Grumman APG-80 AESA radar
5. Four F-16 production lines functioning world-wide

Cons
1. US restrictions on modifications and end usage
2. Earlier generation design, dating back to 1980s
3. Earlier vintage F-16s in service with Pakistan Air Force

Eurofighter Typhoon: Overall chances: COOL

Pros
1. Contemporary fighter, still evolving
2. High performance, high-end technology, including supercruise
3. Offering India development partnership
4. No end user restrictions, easy transfer of technology
5. EADS already helping to develop India’s LCA

Cons
1. No combat experience
2. Heavy, 25-ton aircraft, expensive
3. AESA radar still under development

Saab Gripen NG: Overall chances: RED HOT

Pros
1. Only Eurofighter and Gripen are capable of Supercruise: supersonic flight without afterburners
2. Can land, refuel, rearm and take off in 10 minutes
3. Light, single-engine, highly cost-effective
4. Selex Raven AESA radar with advanced swashplate technology
5. Willing to hand over source codes for high-tech equipment

Cons
1. Has US components, including engines and avionics
2. AESA radar still under development
3. India has never operated a Swedish fighter

RAC MiG, MiG-35: Overall chances: HOT

Pros
1. Dovetails easily with IAF’s MiG-29 fleet
2. Typical Russian fast, agile fighter
3. Vastly improved avionics and targeting system
4. Thrust-vectoring engines option exists
5. Cheapest ticket price of twin-engine fighters

Cons
1. Airframe barely improved from MiG-29
2. Zhuk-Phazotron AESA radar still under development
3. Life cycle cost of Russian fighters is traditionally high

Dassault Rafale: Overall chances: DARK HORSE

Pros
1. Amongst the most contemporary options
2. France deploys on land and aircraft carriers
3. IAF’s Mirage-2000 fleet creates comfort level with Dassault
4. Transfer of technology smooth; no end user restrictions
5. Only non-US fighter with deployed AESA radar

Cons
1. Limited combat experience
2. 25-tonne, twin-engine aircraft, expensive
3. Only contender never to have flown in India

Courtesy
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/