Mongolia should hold vote on rejoining China

[northeast]

Stop your delusion，If you want it，you take it，not masturbating and dreaming about it.It's coward and not gonna work.

 

[TaiShang]

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/KJ22Ad03.html
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/a9509ca4-c09c-11de-8f4a-00144feab49a.html#axzz3QAWd31r7

In Japan there are 2 groups of political forces. PM Hatoyama preaches East Asian Union. USA fumed and take Hatoyama down.

I second this observation. Too bad Hatoyama has been brought down ruthlessly. With him, there would indeed be greater chance for a more closely-knitted East Asia.

 

[Brutas]

Leave Mongolia. Trying grabbing parts of Siberia from Russia. After all parts of Manchuria is still under Russian control. China will have the support of EU-US. Cutting Russia to size would not be a bad idea !

 

[Martian2]

Why do we need an Asian Union?

Long term, I don't think China is strong enough to take on the Anglo-Saxon and NATO alliance. In North America, the United States has deep ties with Canada and Mexico through NAFTA. The U.S. has strong Anglo-Saxon cultural ties to Canada, Britain, Australia, and New Zealand. The U.S. saved its fellow Christians in Europe during World War II and established NATO afterwards.

In total, the U.S. is the leader of a fairly tight-knit group that includes: Europe, British Isles, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and more loosely in Mexico and Turkey.

Right now, with the West-Russia split, China has a unique opportunity. China can assemble an equally impressive alliance. China needs to pull in Mongolia, ASEAN, Central Asian states, and Russia.

Russia is up for grabs. If China hurries, we can pull Russia away from Europe. Afterwards, China can work on integrating the other members of SCO and discuss broadening the club.

 

[TaiShang]

Leave Mongolia. Trying grabbing parts of Siberia from Russia. After all parts of Manchuria is still under Russian control. China will have the support of EU-US. Cutting Russia to size would not be a bad idea !

Why do you intentionally distract the thesis of the OP? Are you plain stupid or acting like one? I guess you should go back to your quarter.

The proposal is not about land grab or invasion. It is about a loose union of sovereign states attached to China as the center of gravity based on their willing participation. Put this in your thick head and stop trolling otherwise you will be reported.

 

[AgentOrange]

The only person flaming is you. You can also say the French are fiercely independent. They joined the EU. Didn't they?

There are no invasions in my proposal.

Try reading my posts in this thread. I said both sides have to vote on the proposal.

The proposal is to create a EU-style federation with China at the core (instead of Germany).

Settle down friend. I didn't accuse you of flaming. I just didn't want this thread to turn into a flame war. Obviously @atatwolf got butthurt for some reason, acted out, and had his post deleted but that illustrates my point about this thread attracting random trolls.

Anyways, I agree with Nihonjin - China dominates Mongolia's economy already. What's the point of claiming the territory when China already gets all it needs and then some from its current economic arrangements with them? If anything, a union between China and Outer Mongolia, even if mutually agreed upon, would paint a bigger target on China's back at a time when China is undergoing a difficult economic transition.

 

[C130]

should Pakistan vote to join China as well??? Banglesdesh too???
why don't we all vote to be part of the great PRC

 

[Martian2]

should Pakistan vote to join China as well??? Banglesdesh too???
why don't we all vote to be part of the great PRC

I'm a realist. It's easier to integrate countries with similar cultures and backgrounds.

After that is done, my personal inclination (as a Taiwanese-American) is to broaden it to you guys. However, I don't know if it's a step too far for conservative China. Look at all of the resistance that I'm getting from the Chinese members for proposing Mongolia.

Wait a generation? In the meantime, start with an association agreement and move it up over time.

I need Mongolia (or perhaps Thailand) to sign up to get the ball rolling.
----------
North American Union: U.S., Canada, and Mexico (through NAFTA and other consultations)
European Union: Britain and EU states that keep creeping eastward. Ukraine is the next to sign up.
Asian Union: NOT EVEN IN DISCUSSION STAGE AMONG ASIAN COUNTRIES

 

[Aepsilons]

This is Meiji thinkers' proposal, to be fulfilled by either China or Japan- a pan East Asia Union.

Lux,

Why are you trying to associate a political and social ideology of a bygone era , 19th century, to the present epoch? The era of militaristic subjugation of states is long over -- as it pertains in Northeast Asia. Northeast Asia , and in particular I refer to Japan, China, South Korea is fairly integrated in terms of market economics, diplomatic correspondence and inter-state coadjuvancy. When was the last fighting / war between these three states ? I'll tell you when --- over half a century ago. Where there were and (still are) military fighting in Europe, South & Latin America, Africa, the Middle East and to an extent in South Asia. In regards to North East Asia --- none. Our region is marked with high HDI, societal development. Economic integration, coupled with cultural similarities enables Northeast Asia to remain an ocean of peace in an unstable world.



Cheers.

 

[C130]

I'm a realist. It's easier to integrate countries with similar cultures and backgrounds.

After that is done, my personal inclination (as a Taiwanese-American) is to broaden it to you guys. However, I don't know if it's a step too far for conservative China.

Wait a generation? In the meantime, start with an association agreement and move it up over time.

Mongolian has it's own history and culture too though
amazing music as welll

 

[Aepsilons]

Right..
China is now not so eager to re-unite with Mongolia..
We have patient to wait..There are many other issue to solve before considering Mongolia issue..

In its own time, perhaps in this current epoch, the probability of a Northeast Asian Union seems unlikely due to complex political aperture , who's to say the same will be true in say 1-2 centuries from now? We do live in quite interesting times. I for one would love to see fellow East Asians allied to each other and make Northeast Asia the center of the world. Why should it always be affixed on the West?

Anyways, here's to positive thinking !

 

[Martian2]

The Asian Union will take time.

I'm willing to settle for quick and dirty.

Mongolia is broke. I think China should offer $20,000 minimum living standard for every Outer Mongolian if they join China. This guarantee will be in writing. Also, China will grant Mongolia full autonomy over education, social laws, etc. Basically, Mongolia would have all of the rights of an American state. Just like the American federal system, China would be the federal government and assume control over infrastructure construction (e.g. interstate highway), defense, and interstate commerce (e.g. trade).

If China can convince Mongolia to join, the real prize is Russia. For its own long-term security, China must persuade Russia to become China's Canada. Russo-China trade should match the $700 billion between the United States and Canada. Canada supplies the U.S. with plenty of oil and other natural resources. With the physical connections between the Outer Mongolian-Russian border, there will be plenty of oil pipelines and other interconnects between the "New China" and Russia.

The European Dream is to stretch from Lisbon to Vladivostok. I propose the China Dream of stretching from Hainan to St. Petersburg. If only we can persuade the Mongolians to cooperate, China can compete with Europe for Russia (ie. the largest landmass on Earth and the most valuable strategic depth).

If China can pull in Mongolia and form a tight long-term relationship with Russia then China won't have to worry about the United States anymore. The dream is Chinese security and resource independence.

The nightmare is if Russia someday falls into the European camp. Alternatively, the European Union (after swallowing up the Warsaw Pact countries and Baltic States) is steadily working its way eastward to Ukraine, Belarus, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, and Kyrgyzstan.

The European Union refers to the Stans as East Europeans and not Central Asians. This is a competition. China must fight for these swing states. Otherwise, the European Union and NATO will someday show up on China's western doorstep.

 

[Aepsilons]

The Asian Union will take time.

I'm willing to settle for quick and dirty.

Mongolia is broke. I think China should offer $20,000 minimum living standard for every Outer Mongolian if they join China. This will be in writing. Also, China will grant Mongolia full autonomy over education, social laws, etc. Basically, Mongolia would have all of the rights of an American state. Just like the American federal system, China would be the federal government and assume control over infrastructure construction (e.g. interstate highway), defense, and interstate commerce (e.g. trade).

If China can convince Mongolia to join, the real prize is Russia. For its own long-term security, China must persuade Russia to become China's Canada. Russo-China trade should match the $700 billion between the United States and Canada. Canada supplies the U.S. with plenty of oil and other natural resources. With the physical connections between the Outer Mongolian-Russian border, there will be plenty of oil and other interconnects between the "New China" and Russia.

The European Dream is to stretch from Lisbon to Vladivostok. I propose the China Dream of stretching from Hainan to St. Petersburg. If only we can persuade the Mongolians to cooperate, China can compete with Europe for Russia (ie. the largest landmass on Earth and the most valuable strategic depth).

If China can pull in Mongolia and form a tight relationship with Russia then China won't have to worry about the United States anymore. The dream is Chinese security and resource independence.

A Northeast Asian Union will not manifest in our lifetime, I believe. It will take an acute change in world order to shake the foundations of the pre-existing alliances in this region. And i am specifically referring to the US-Japan-Korea Global Alliance. Until then, the best one can hope for is greater economic, political rapport to balance this military alliance system.

 

[TaiShang]

A Northeast Asian Union will not manifest in our lifetime, I believe. It will take an acute change in world order to shake the foundations of the pre-existing alliances in this region. And i am specifically referring to the US-Japan-Korea Global Alliance. Until then, the best one can hope for is greater economic, political rapport to balance this military alliance system.

Agreed. For any East Asian union to bear fruit, the existing structure must be shattered. Currently, it (US-Japan-Korea alliance) appears too strong to be challenged. Like you say, it must start from an economic (soft) background and then gradually move toward a more hard (political and security) framework.

 

[Aepsilons]

The nightmare is if Russia someday falls into the European camp. Alternatively, the European Union (after swallowing up the Warsaw Pact and Baltic States) is steadily working its way eastward to Ukraine, Belarus, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijian, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, and Kyrgyzstan.

The European Union refers to the Stans as East Europeans and not Central Asians. This is a competition. China must fight for these swing states. Otherwise, the European Union and NATO will someday show up on China's doorstep.

Surely that is more of a far-flung what if scenario. The likelihood of Russia's collapse is as realistic as Germany disintegrating into multiple states. NATO was set in place to prevent Soviet reach deep into Europe, and to an extent, has now evolved to meet new threats to that establishment's interests --- now specifically focused in the Middle East. NATO's reach is not long enough nor sustained enough to afford direct confrontation with a civilization state such as China. Any military strategist with knowledge of the PVA's role in the Korean War will understand the shear futility in engaging the Chinese in a ground war.



Thanks.