Mohenjo Daro existed in early Harappan era no absence of monumental buildings/elites

[W.11]

Dr JM Kenoyer in his lecture elaborates that city of Mohenjo daro unlike previous notions that it came into existence in 2600 BC as a planned settlement all of a sudden is a false notion.

Mohenjo daro excavation at stupa mound reveals Kot Diji phase(3300-2800), which hasnt been further excavated due to ground water level.

Extending urban settlement timeline will push back IVC civilization from 2600 to 4th mil BC

He further elaborates that monumental buildings have been excavated frmo Mohenjodaro unlike previous notions that mohenjodaro lacked governance or a central government because it doesnt show monumental architecture on parallels with mesopotamia.

 

[Path-Finder]

There are alot of historical sites around the world where questions are being raised about the dating of such sites and that is being met with sarcastic response by the established band of selective historians and some other academics who hold esteemed positions in their academic hierarchy.

Which is only raising more questions instead of answering them and when ordinary people get behind it then these established dogmas and those who defend them become abusive too!

All academic fun and games.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Much respect to the Sindh government for enabling this conferance. All provinces of Pakistan need to work on their respective histories/heritage making the combined Indus story.

 

[W.11]

There are alot of historical sites around the world where questions are being raised about the dating of such sites and that is being met with sarcastic response by the established band of selective historians and some other academics who hold esteemed positions in their academic hierarchy.

there is a site from south america whose urban antiquity has been brought virtually parallel to mesopotamia (4000 BC compared to 3800 BC), but the established historical narrative is mesopotamia was the cradle of civilization, so on and so forth. The date of indus writing as 3700 BC as opposed to mesopotamian writing 3100 BC is very interesting as writing is considered as very important element for a civilization along with urbanism.

regards

 

[Path-Finder]

The main question is where did the people go? They just got up and left, why? for some reason this site gets far less coverage then it deserves it should get equal amount of attention as other historical sites around the world.

there is a site from south america whose urban antiquity has been brought virtually parallel to mesopotamia (4000 BC compared to 3800 BC), but the established historical narrative is mesopotamia was the cradle of civilization, so on and so forth. The date of indus writing as 3700 BC as opposed to mesopotamian writing 3100 BC is very interesting as writing is considered as very important element for a civilization along with urbanism.

regards

That is the problem, all these academics for some reason limit any historical site found to be dated after mesopotamia! Until Gobekli Tepe was assessed and dated which completely threw the spanner in things. I deem it to be a political move because a lot of these sciences that deal with ancient human sites like historians and archaeologists seem to have a politically leftist leaning who want to 'cap' everything to maximum 5000 BC!

Anyone who questions this gets ridiculed and that shows their motives. Good thing is more and more ordinary people and upcoming people in these fields are challenging this established dogama's

10.000yrs and still going strong... readying for the NewCycle!

it may be 12500 years

@War Historian @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Path-Finder @OsmanAli98 What does the traditional embroidery show us? Not just the patterns but also the technique... Why?

which embroidery?

 

[W.11]

The main question is where did the people go? They just got up and left, why?

in order to justify nomadic aryans coming into south asia, a scenario had to be cooked up, meaning decline of urbanism post harappan, absence of literacy and situation which was condusive to the ''nomadic life style'' presented in the vedas.

not only post harappan absence of urbanism has been under scrutiny now as told by Mr Mark Kenoyer himself that urbanism increased not seclined posst harappan period but also the interpretation that the vedas depict a nomadic life style.

regards

 

[Path-Finder]

in order to justify nomadic aryans coming into south asia, a scenario had to be cooked up, meaning decline of urbanism post harappan, absence of literacy and situation which was condusive to the ''nomadic life style'' presented in the vedas.

not only post harappan absence of urbanism has been under scrutiny now as told by Mr Mark Kenoyer himself that urbanism increased not seclined posst harappan period but also the interpretation that the vedas depict a nomadic life style.

regards

Well that is an interesting theory, Aryans did come to south Asia. But Mohenjo daro was clearly abandoned far far before europeans arrived in south asia.

I am wondering If the great calamity that hit earth about ~12500 years ago affected Mohenjo Daro too! There is a lot of academic back and forth going on at the moment and it is gaining momentum too.

 

[W.11]

Well that is an interesting theory, Aryans did come to south Asia. But Mohenjo daro was clearly abandoned far far before europeans arrived in south asia.

there is no archaeological evidence of aryans arriving in SA.

regards

 

[Path-Finder]

there is no archaeological evidence of aryans arriving in SA.

regards

There is a book by a Pakistani historian if I can find it again I will post its link.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

The main question is where did the people go?

They diffused within the Sindhi population. You can see them in the faces of Sindhi's. Of course no population remains same over 5,000 years. But these people were the antecedents to modern Sindhi's.

And I think this fact is sinking in. I notice the Sindh government has began to celebrate their predecessors. Pakistan don't forget is a new label on a very, very, very old bottle.

 

[Path-Finder]

They diffused within the Sindhi population. You can see them in the faces of Sindhi's. Of course no population remains same over 5,000 years. But these people were the antecedents to modern Sindhi's.

And I think this fact is sinking in. I notice the Sindh government has began to celebrate their predecessors. Pakistan don't forget is a new label on a very, very, very old bottle.

interesting hypothesis.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

interesting hypothesis.

It's the most obvious one. Over the years I have noticed that the most obvious possibility has been overlooked [driven by agenda] and instead wild theories that all of IVC 'took trains' and settled in South of India etc or Ganga valley. Of course this idea is driven by the desperation of Indians to build their narrative. In all this what was the most obvious and staring them in the face was/is ignored. You don';t see anybody claim that ancient Egyptians took a Daewoo bus to Central Africa. Or Mesopotamians all swam to Europe. Or ancient Greeks moved to Syria. Much modified their successors are still there today.

Fact is while people move. Indead it is possible IVC individuals settled in Turkmenistan, Iraq, Burma, India etc but the majority remained in situ. This is the default you see across the globe. However the default you see across the globe is evolution. As waves of newcomers come, each leaves a layer. The Indus for a millenia has recieved waves from our westerly hinterlands. As I said each wave left a layer. As newer layers built up the population evolved. Culture evolved. Religions came and went. In 2020 you see the product of 5,000 years of drama.

As each region of Pakistan went through it's own journey [althoug there was much overlap] you can ses today the regional differances in Pakistan. Each beautiful in their own way. All making the kalaidascope that is Pakistan. But one constant through remained as 1,000s of years rolled on.

The mighty Indus River. Nourishing the land and giving life to it's people. And in 2020 the Indus is as, indeed if not even more important then it ever was. If Indus stopped flowing Pakistan would wither away and die as a nation.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

The main question is where did the people go? They just got up and left, why?

It is a nonsensical notion that they just packed up their bags and left, with IVC just 'randomly' disappearing one day.

What instead occurred was a sharp decline in urban settlements, with many cities being abandoned for a multitude of reasons, the remaining inhabitants most likely returned to rural living. We have archaeological evidence of continued presence, albeit; with a much more meager footprint.

Similar instances also happened in various other civilizations around the world;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_Dark_Ages
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Intermediate_Period_of_Egypt

These civilizations saw signs of recovery after several centuries, however in the case of IVC, the remnants were absorbed by the migrating Aryans before any instance of 'recovery' could happen, taking on a new language and culture, which themselves were influenced by these remnants.

Many IVC sites saw intermittent reoccupation, such as Pirak and most famously Mohenjo Daro, the stupa of Mohenjo Daro for example was built during the Buddhist period, thousands of years after the 'collapse' of IVC.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

It's the most obvious one. Over the years I have noticed that the most obvious possibility has been overlooked [driven by agenda] and instead wild theories that all of IVC 'took trains' and settled in South of India etc or Ganga valley. Of course this idea is driven by the desperation of Indians to build their narrative. In all this what was the most obvious and staring them in the face was/is ignored. You don';t see anybody claim that ancient Egyptians took a Daewoo bus to Central Africa. Or Mesopotamians all swam to Europe. Or ancient Greeks moved to Syria. Much modified their successors are still there today.

Fact is while people move. Indead it is possible IVC individuals settled in Turkmenistan, Iraq, Burma, India etc but the majority remained in situ. This is the default you see across the globe. However the default you see across the globe is evolution. As waves of newcomers come, each leaves a layer. The Indus for a millenia has recieved waves from our westerly hinterlands. As I said each wave left a layer. As newer layers built up the population evolved. Culture evolved. Religions came and went. In 2020 you see the product of 5,000 years of drama.

As each region of Pakistan went through it's own journey [althoug there was much overlap] you can ses today the regional differances in Pakistan. Each beautiful in their own way. All making the kalaidascope that is Pakistan. But one constant through remained as 1,000s of years rolled on.

The mighty Indus River. Nourishing the land and giving life to it's people. And in 2020 the Indus is as, indeed if not even more important then it ever was. If Indus stopped flowing Pakistan would wither away and die as a nation.

Beautiful, thanks for the post. This explains the similarities that native ethnicities of Pakistan share with each other. From Pukhtoon areas, Balochistan to Kashmir, Punjab, and Sindh, and all the way up to GB and Wakhi areas. Common blood and culture seeps through all of us.

 

[War Historian]

The Pyramids of Pakistan... rising, rising....

10.000yrs and still going strong... readying for the NewCycle!



@Indus Pakistan PakBrother mine, I did draw your attention to timeframe a couple of years ago! You be good ...

@War Historian @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Path-Finder @OsmanAli98 What does the traditional embroidery show us? Not just the patterns but also the technique... Why?

Sir,
Thank you for tag me. We had a very rich history and culture even in the ancient ages. These cities of Harrapa, Mohenjo Darro, Texila, Mehargarrh ,prince of hope in makran all the marks of the civilized societies of this region which is now Pakistan. These people were always steps ahead of indian people. Therefore i always asked we do not belong to these people of india. We were different in past and also different in every era. Only british empire force us to live with them.
We build cities, proper sanitation, water supply, air and lighting ventilation which indian india lacks after more 3000 years. In same period indian were living near ganges river bank without cloths. And still they are same mental approach.
Nile river, Mesopotamia, Indus river and yellow river civilization has there strong historical background. All others learn from these four civilization. Indians were clueless on that time and still they are.
Sir each work and art including embroidery they learn from elders move to next generation and they also add their own creative ideas. It includes the construction, clothing, living state running rules.
Most of these people which studied these civilization they concluded tthat these people were not very much aware of that time weapon so when central asian attack on them they wipe out in those continue wars. And central asian settle here. Because of land fertility but they do not live in cities but mostly in village type community.
So many ancient cities are still undiscovered. When we will dig them out we will see more rich history of our region. Thanks