Modi's Expensive Penchant for Made-In-Videsh [Rafale]

[Prajapati]

Well i meant IF THEY DECIDED TO DO ANYTHING.
But yes i guess we all agree that given the tendency to flow with current, too much was left undone, that has now become a serious malice (not just defence other sectors too). In this context the urgency shown by this government is praise-worthy. In several cases it has meant changing the official stand taken (indigenous manufacturing, ToT etc) but under the circumstances, it is the best course of action.
My only worry on the issue is that the number getting stuck to 36, it is too little. Hope it is a case of purchasing in small batches keeping year on year expenditure in control.

You know, for CAS roles in mountains, Drones are more useful. Let us see how this plays out.

Everything points to top class decision making. India First.

 

[koushik]

Seeing this piece of article written by Mani Shankar Aiyer.....
A very popular bengali saying comes to my mind.!

"Puro baal er khobor..!!" :p :p

@Omega007 @mike Brando

 

[sancho]

Where was Mr Aiyer's concern in procuring Mig29M, Mirage 2000, and Mig29K's with zero industrial benefit?

Apart that those were deals in different times and conditions, all the things that you mentioned have no relation to the MMRCA / Rafale deal, nor does it make what he said in this case less true does it? I am with you when it comes to him personally and that he belongs to the worst of the politicians India has, but personal likes or dislikes are one thing, facts another. You don't have to like him, to admit that he has a point here.

The Congress took a very long time (10 years) to do nothing on the fighter front. Modi has made a stop gap purchase after giving the MMRCA negotiations 1 more year, which led nowhere.

Id rather have Modis government in charge of defence over the sit on your hands do nothing St. Anthony.

The "Modi government", includes the DM's Jaitley and Parrikar, which did exactly the same as Antony did by pushing the MMRCA tender and not just a stop gap solution, since the MMRCA tender is the important deal for India. Jaitley continued with the process of negotiations with Dassault, where Antony left and finished the last steps of the ToT and offsets requirement. Parrikar is even on record, to say EXACTLY the same to Dassault as Antony did, that they have to comply to the RFP.
So in this case, no matter if one likes it or not for political reasons, there is no difference between UPA or NDA policy, since they both wanted the same for India and the IAF!

The only difference that was made now, was the PM taking a decision against the "Indian policy" we had in this deal and the needs of the IAF, because this puts both the MoD and the IAF in disadvantage. The earlier has no leverage to put pressure on Dassault anymore and the latter is more than clear that 36 fighters doesn't make a difference, unless they are part of the larger deal. MoD wants the MMRCA, IAF wants the MMRCA, only the PM suddenly (but in time for his foreign visit) wanted something else.

So you actually can't be for the Modi government and for Modi here at the same time, since both wanted different things!

Sancho and Mani Shankar Aiyer think alike

Not even close! But I give credit to anybody, when it's due, not because I like or dislike him.

 

[Prajapati]

Not even close! But I give credit to anybody, when it's due, not because I like or dislike him.

OMG a self declared honest man ............... now I am convinced.

 

[MilSpec]

Apart that those were deals in different times and conditions, all the things that you mentioned have no relation to the MMRCA / Rafale deal, nor does it make what he said in this case less true does it? I am with you when it comes to him personally and that he belongs to the worst of the politicians India has, but personal likes or dislikes are one thing, facts another. You don't have to like him, to admit that he has a point here.

.

29K's 55 of em came in last UPA gov't, and even in those times (29m and m2k era) we were making building Jags, 27's 21's with full TOT (Engine, radar, material included)

 

[sancho]

29K's 55 of em came in last UPA gov't, and even in those times (29m and m2k era) we were making building Jags, 27's 21's with full TOT (Engine, radar, material included)

And they were a combined deal with the carrier, no tender, no competition, no licence production => therefor the only industrial benefit was offsets, like the RD33 MK assembly line at HAL (I still criticize though, that we haven't got the Mig 29K production line to HAL, since we mainly funded that version anyway).
And no, in those times when we were able to "procure" state of the are Mig 29s and Mirage, we only were "allowed" to licence produce old gen Migs and Jags! If you remember, we wanted Tornados and not Jags, but the Europeans back then denied us their best fighters, especially in licence production deals. The US kept denying us the F16 till the MRCA tender was started in the early 2000s and still denying us any useful tech for licence productions and only are ready to give us assembly line.
So there is a huuuuuge difference in industrial benefits in the past, to what we can have today and that has to do with policy changes under the UPA term too. Mandatory offsets diverted to Indian industy via JV's, higher focus on licence production in India, higher focus on joint developments, the mandatory team up with Indian partners to jointly bid in tenders (buy and make Indian policy), up to the policy change to make India to a defence production hub, all that increased the importance of industrial benefits to India and were started in the recent years. In fact all that is the base of the Make in India PR today, because it's about defence production in India, be it via offsets, licence production or actual R&D.

So yes, Aiyer is a nutjob, but even nutjobs sometimes have a point and in the case of the Rafale deal compared to what the MMRCA was / is about, he has some right points. Btw you don't even deny that as it seems, since you are refering to anything other than that.