Modernized by Turkey, Pakistan's Agosta 90B submarine to launch soon

[Haris Ali2140]

We can't have all our eggs in one basket , we must have sea based nukes that can hide in remote parts of the globe. Either we go full nuclear or we don't there is no half way house in this game.

Endurance of nuc. sub is 1 month. After that crew runs out of supplys. Meanwhile API has endurance of 3 weeks. Nucn subs have large heat signature which makes them easy to detect. Nucleur subs are used in open seas where they go out and just sit there. We dont have that much sea territory nor we will send them into open sea. If you want nucleur deterrence you can store nucleur missiles in conventional subs.

 

[TNT]

The french mofos should not be given a single penny worth contracts anymore.

I am happy we are cooperating with Turkey and i am happy Turkey is fast reaching and even surpassing european technology.

 

[Gryphon]

Interview:
STM General Manager Murat İKİNCİ



Defence Turkey: STM recently signed a contract with the Pakistani Ministry of Defence Production on June 22, 2016, surpassing French DCNS Shipyard, Naval Group, the submarine manufacturer, in an international tender opened for the Mid-Life Update (MLU) of Khalid Class Submarines ‘Agosta 90B’. During this period, three contract amendments were signed in June 2017, February 2018 and March 2019 for the provision of two submarines and important subsystems from Turkish companies. Could you please inform us on the current status of the project, activities performed so far and the important milestones of the project in the upcoming period?

Murat İKİNCİ: As the main contractor, we are in the phase of Assembly and Integration on the first ship, disassembly of system devices because of unavailable space on the second ship and the preparation of the location for the assembly. By the end of 2019, we plan to complete the installation and integration activities of the systems supplied within the scope of Mid-Life Update in the PNS/M HAMZA submarine, the first submarine of the Project, and to finalize the Setting to Work (STW) tests. We aim to deliver the first submarine of the project PNS/M HAMZA to the Pakistan Navy at the end of December 2020, after the completion of Harbor Acceptance Tests (HAT) in the first quarter of 2020, followed by the Sea Acceptance Tests (SAT).

Simultaneously with the first submarine activities, we plan to complete the Factory Acceptance Tests (FAT) of the systems belonging to PNS/M KHALID which is the second submarine within 2020, to perform the Assembly and Integration activities and to finalize the Preparations for Set to Work (STW) tests by the end of 2020. Our main goal is to deliver PNS/M KHALID to the Pakistani Navy in December 2021, one year after the delivery of the first submarine PNS/M HAMZA.

Defence Turkey: The MLU of the first submarine, which started in 2018, was planned to be delivered within September 2020 or the first quarter of 2021, and the MLU of the second submarine PNS/M Saad (S-138) was scheduled to start in 2019. Could you please provide information about the modernization and improvement work to be carried out on submarines, the products to be procured from Turkish Defence Industry companies, especially from Aselsan and Havelsan, and the estimated labor / man x hours for each submarine?

Murat İKİNCİ: Our main goal for the French originated KHALID class submarines, which are the most popular underwater platform of the Pakistan Navy, is to incorporate the cutting-edge technology products which are indispensable in terms of both effective duty execution and deterrence in a modern submarine. STM, following the completion of our efforts on activity analysis and customer requirements for such platforms, we will provide the Integrated Underwater Command Control System (ESKKS) and Sonar Suite and Sonar Subsystems that work in integration with it, the Submarine Information Distribution System, Underwater/Torpedo Fire Control System, Attack and Navigation Periscopes, ESM, Navigation Radar, Static Converters, Steering Control System, Ship Self-Noise Measurement System, Submarine Rescue Buoy and Digital Bridge Information Console with a 45 bar strength, and in addition to these systems we provide the Auxiliary Cooling Water System to cool the ESKKS, Torpedo Counter Measure System and Electronic Map Display and Information System.

The integrated Underwater Command Control System (ESKKS) and Submarine Information Distribution System are supplied by Havelsan, the ESM, Torpedo Counter Measure System and Navigation Radar System are supplied by Aselsan and the Auxiliary Cooling Water System by Bronswerk, Turkey. STM provides the Submarine Rescue Buoy, 45 bar resistant Digital Bridge Information Console, Electronic Map Display and Information system in addition to all materials for all structural/technical design, analysis, documentation and installation. We can express with pride that we have involved dozens of Turkish defence industry companies in this ecosystem considering the cables for installation, pipes, valves, flanges, panels, consumables, etc.

In addition to the aforementioned supplies, we are working together with Poyraz3M Ltd for activities within the scope of Integrated Logistics Support (ILS). In addition, for the first time in the world in a modernization project in the field of “Diving Safety”, which is vital for the submarine platform, we cooperate and procure services from the IACCS member DNV GL for the control of all the modifications made in the resistant boats and waterproofing bulkheads, control of certifications for all materials and the workmanship towards such parts and finally for the provision of “Diving Safety Certification” for the submarines.

For each submarine, an average of 930-man x months is estimated within the scope of the MLU. This figure does not contain the man x month values of our Subcontractors and the Pakistan Military Shipyard that provide labor activities. We proudly state that the number of companies or countries that can undertake a submarine MLU project on such a scale is countable on just one hand.


Excerpt from:

STM’s Naval Expertise Propelling Export-Oriented Development and Collaboration Projects with the Turkish Defence Industry | defenceturkey.com

 

[Manidabest]

Great Job done by two countries

 

[Syed_Adeel]

I dont want to discourage people here but people are here talking like the PN planners are stupid and they dont know the timelines and strategic issues.

Just keep in mind that you dont even know what and how much capability they have and how they will use it in times of war. China is always ready to deploy its active service Naval forces in arabian sea whenever required.

 

[ARMalik]

I dont want to discourage people here but people are here talking like the PN planners are stupid and they dont know the timelines and strategic issues.

Just keep in mind that you dont even know what and how much capability they have and how they will use it in times of war. China is always ready to deploy its active service Naval forces in arabian sea whenever required.

Don't take this the wrong way but what you are saying is pure 'Speculation'. And you cannot plan based on speculation; you plan when you have assets at hand specially against IN which is 10 times larger than PN. Don't underestimate the enemy based on false bravado. And that is all people are saying - Where are the assets?? Why are they late??

 

[Sunny4pak]

Pakistan Agosta 90B Submarine Upgrade Program

 

[MastanKhan]

I dont want to discourage people here but people are here talking like the PN planners are stupid and they dont know the timelines and strategic issues.

Just keep in mind that you dont even know what and how much capability they have and how they will use it in times of war. China is always ready to deploy its active service Naval forces in arabian sea whenever required.

Hi,

First of all---this never works for a smaller power in times of crisis---a bigger power will interven and stop that from happening.

So---until and unless---the assets are already in your arena---they will never get there in times of crisis---specially the ocean going assets---.

Air and ground may work due to our border with china.

PN planners were caught sleeping when the indian Sub surfaced at the time of chinese frigate's arrival a few years ago---.

Navy has been sleeping at the helm quite often---Agosta french engineer killing---Atlantique flight---Saab 2000 destroyed at naval base---lack of control over the Gwadar city security---sending 20 soldiers on bus to gwadar un-armed right after feb 27th---the soldiers that got executed---.

And this 8 submarine drama---.

Thailand ordered the subs after us and they supposedly got theirs---what is happening to these over priced pakistani subs---?

 

[YeBeWarned]

Yep, Nuke subs.

If they are nuclear Subs we won't see even a glimpse of them, nor any confirmation .. We might declare them even later about their full capabilities , probably in case of a 27th Feb type Conflict . a nuke sub will bring a lot of unwanted attention from West .

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

Janab what on earth we are buying from China. The subs we are buying sure as hell are not Type 39 or Type 41 for that matter. Thailand bought Type 39 ships and ordered those 3 years after us and they already have gotten first one. We are almost paying double price for each sub so what on earth we really are buying and when will first arrive.
@Rashid Mahmood

Your idiotic comments do not need any reply...!!!

 

[Gryphon]

And this 8 submarine drama---.

Thailand ordered the subs after us and they supposedly got theirs---what is happening to these over priced pakistani subs---?

Mastan shb, the delivery date of Pakistan's first Hangor-class submarine is already public, i.e., 2022 and so is the case with Thailand's first S26T, i.e., 2023.
No announcement of steel cutting made but then this was also the case with the first Type 054A/P.

Regarding 'over priced pakistani subs', I believe this is based on the US$ 4-5 billion figure provided by Farhan Bokhari / Financial Times. That was merely an estimate and unless you have official figures of the sub unit price and weapons package is too early lamenting the price.

 

[MastanKhan]

Mastan shb, the delivery date of Pakistan's first Hangor-class submarine is already public, i.e., 2022 and so is the case with Thailand's first S26T, i.e., 2023.
No announcement of steel cutting made but then this was also the case with the first Type 054A/P.

Regarding 'over priced pakistani subs', I believe this is based on the US$ 4-5 billion figure provided by Farhan Bokhari / Financial Times. That was merely an estimate and unless you have official figures of the sub unit price and weapons package is too early lamenting the price.

Hi,

Thank you sir---. The right information does come out---

 

[Imran Khan]

lets see what is outcome of this baby sub now

 

[syed_yusuf]

I think 4-5 billion includes frigates and PSA ships among other items and upgrades. i expect each sub to be around 350 million usd that is 2.8 billion usd plus 4 frigates that is 1.4 billion usd. and the rest for PMSA boats and other minor equipments. Above figures are just estimates but it make sense to quote figures of 4-5 billion usd.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Mastan shb, the delivery date of Pakistan's first Hangor-class submarine is already public, i.e., 2022 and so is the case with Thailand's first S26T, i.e., 2023.
No announcement of steel cutting made but then this was also the case with the first Type 054A/P.

Regarding 'over priced pakistani subs', I believe this is based on the US$ 4-5 billion figure provided by Farhan Bokhari / Financial Times. That was merely an estimate and unless you have official figures of the sub unit price and weapons package is too early lamenting the price.

Yep. The $4-5 billion US figure came from an early news report, no official estimate or anything. Based on the Thai deal, the PN's submarine deal is likely set at $2.4 to $2.7 billion US.

Having seen what we've seen with the MILGEM, the PN will go for custom-grade, Western equipment where it can actually afford it. If the PN actually had $4-5 billion US to kill on submarines, then 100% it would've asked for the conventional Barracuda from France, at the minimum. I suspect the S26 deal came about due to a lower cost plus blanket unwillingness by the West to supply submarines -- both factors (cost + availability).