Mob kills Christian family in Jhelum

[TruthSeeker]

I would just like to point out that I was not the one who opened this thread.

 

[haviZsultan]

Absolutely pathetic. The criminals and terroristic monkeys must be arrested and given a danda in their ***.

This is against the vision of the great Quaid E Azam and against the tenets of Islam. These ****** traitorous monkeys attack our people just because of the their professed religion?

Our laws are being used by traitors and terrorists to attack innocents. This is why I wrote this. Blasphemy law especially cannot exist in a country where these terrorists are willing to use each and every excuse they find to attack and massacre innocents.

Why do we fear Secularism?
June 21, 2010

Many Pakistanis have a built in aversion towards the word secularism while taking an excessive pride in the Islamic Republic attached to Pakistan’s name. Despite the fact that many Pakistanis fail to follow the tenets of Islam and the word Islamic Republic makes a mockery of the meaning it remains a source of excessive pride. People claim that today the country is very far from Islam as very few people in Pakistan really follow the tenets of Islam however very few of them can answer the question whether it worthwhile to have an “Islamic Republic” only in name. However the real question is do we really have anything to fear from Secularism in the first place?

According to its dictionary meaning Secularism refers to the equal treatment of each and every religious group within the Nation and to the idea that religion should have a smaller role in politics and decision making because when it has too large a role people spend their time over their own separate interpretations of religion rather than Nation building and the tasks at hand.

Many Muslims in Pakistan fear secularism because they have a perverse idea of the concept fearing Islam will be diminished with Secularism. This is completely untrue. Pakistan’s Islamic identity will not be lost with a Secular system.

Will Secularism decrease Islam’s value in Pakistan?

Many Pakistanis continually fear that secularism will decrease the value of Islam or worse will eliminate Islam from Pakistan.

The fact is no one is pushing Islam away and with 95% of the population of Pakistan being proud and extremely pious Muslims for the most part it is impossible to even try. Islam will still be practiced by the majority of people as it is being practiced today without any hindrance whatsoever. The only difference perhaps will be that religion will be a personal matter. A person who does not follow Islam devotedly or a follower of a different religion or a sect of Islam will not be persecuted for having his own separate beliefs.

If seen in such a light Secularism is nothing to be feared. We can be proud Muslims and defend Islam as much or even more with a secular constitution as we can by labelling a country ruled by very corrupt people with barely any link to Islam an “Islamic Republic”. An Islamic Republic where the rulers themselves have no link to Islam and others often use religion as a tool to fulfill their personal interests.

The fact is only a country that has a constitution, laws (that are implemented instead of being cleared by people who can pay bribes) rules and regulations based on the tenets of Islam, the Islamic economic and judicial system and based on the teachings of the Prophet should have the right

The tenets of Islam support Secularism & harmony

“To you be your Faith, and to me mine.”

Ayat 109:6

During the rule of Ali Ibn Abi Talib the fourth Caliph of Islam a Jew stole a shield that belonged to the Caliph and claimed that it was his. He was brought to the court of Ali to settle the dispute. However due to lack of proof and according to Islamic law the Jew was allowed to keep the shield as Hazrat Ali could not prove he owned the shield. This was a verdict going against a Muslim Caliph in his own court. However Hazrat Ali accepted the decision calmly. On the other hand the Jew was dumbfounded as he had indeed stolen the shield. He was quick to embrace Islam and declared that he had lied in front of the entire court.

This was one example of how Islam spread to become one of the largest religions in the World and won hearts and minds. It was due to the insight and tolerance our ancestors had that we got to where we are, that Cordova and Baghdad became centres of learning and Islam spread from the corners of Spain to the boundaries of far east.

Unfortunately many people in Pakistan do not understand that human rights and the equal treatment of all individuals in the country is more important in Islam rather than a notion of Islamic pride and superiority where labelling a country an “Islamic Republic” is deemed necessary. This pride comes from a past that our ancestors built with policies that we fail to understand today.

The Quaid E Azams Principles

“In any case Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic State — to be ruled by priests with a divine mission. We have many non- Muslims — Hindus, Christians, and Parsis — but they are all Pakistanis. They will enjoy the same rights and privileges as any other citizens and will play their rightful part in the affairs of Pakistan.”

Quaid E Azam, February 1948

The above quote is the greatest proof that Quaid E Azam did not want a state that was built completely on the basis of religion. Unfortunately since his death the constitution has been changed to suit every new leader that came and the title “Islamic Republic” untrue it may be has been added along with many laws that are completely out of line with Quaid E Azams original ideas for Pakistan. If we look closely at many of his speeches we will notice Quaid E Azam was a staunch supporter of secularism with an added focus on Islamic thought and ideology. Therefore until he was alive the Islamic Republic was never attached to the countries name. That happened when Ayub Khan came into power.

Other speeches by Quaid E Azam that clearly supported the message of peace, harmony and equality between all groups whether they are ethnic or religious are stated below.

‘We are starting with the fundamental principle that we are all citizens and equal citizens of one state. No matter what is his colour, caste or creed is first, second and last a citizen of this state with equal rights, privileges and obligations….”

“In due course of time Hindus will cease to be Hindus and Muslims will cease to be Muslims – not in a religious sense for that is the personal faith of an individual- but in a political sense as citizens of one state.”

“[If you] work together in a spirit that everyone of you no matter what is his colour, caste or creed, is first, second and last a citizen of this state with equal rights, privileges and obligations, there will be no end to the progress you will make.”

11 August 1947

“The tenets of Islam enjoin on every Musalman to give protection to his neighbours and to the Minorities regardless of caste and creed. We must make it a matter of our honor and prestige to create sense of security amongst them.”

30th October 1947

Clearly Quaid E Azam understood that a Nation could not be built until differences in the minds of people were eliminated and people saws themselves as equal members of a single society regardless of faith or ethnicity.

Perhaps if that spirit was alive today Pakistan would not be afflicted with minor issues and infighting over Shia-Sunni, Barelvi-Deobandi, Ahmedi, and the principles of personal freedom would have given way to building a Nation that was the most glorious one in history. Unfortunately this destiny still awaits the Pakistani race which dreams for justice and equality. Many people continuously deny Quaid E Azam wanted a secular country fearing that Islam will be destroyed by such a move or fearing for their own interests but Quaid E Azam did indeed want a Nation that was Secular and gave equal opportunity to all inhabitants.

People try to deny this but the fact is that this is not a bad thing for us to be ashamed about being Muslims but something glorious in itself that a leader who did so much for Muslims giving them a new homeland and independence still understood the morals of our ancestors because of whom Islam to spread.

Issues caused by the misinterpretation of Islamic Law & resources used to contain them

The fact that laws created to safeguard Islam are being used for the benefit and self interest of bad people does not do anything great for the image of Islam. A clear example is the blasphemy law, a law that makes an insult to Islam, the Prophet or the Quran illegal and punishable by death. This law has been used against minorities for a long time. However Muslims have fallen victims to this law as well.

An example of how this law is misused was the case of Mohammad Imran who was arrested in Faisalabad for blasphemy on the 28th of October 2007. He was falsely blamed because of a personal argument. After being arrested he was first tortured by the police, then the inmates and later he was placed in solitary confinement without anyone looking after his injuries. He was only released in April 2009 after being declared innocent.

Another example was the framing of Akhtar Hammed Khan, an 81 year old writer and sociologist by business interests and authorities unwilling to let his development work take place in Orangi, Karachi. He had launched a development project on the behalf of the people of Orangi. His project offering real estate loans on good terms and work to improve the condition of women through education, access to employment and family planning was not well liked by these authorities. Thus they decided to book him on false charges with the police under the blasphemy laws. He was later released due to inadequate evidence but the case proves how the law is being used to settle personal scores and disputes.

Minorities have many such stories to share as 60% of all victims who are framed under this law are Non Muslims. The law has become a tool for fanatics, murderers and people seeking to settle personal scores yet the law still hasn’t been repealed due to the fact that militants have some influence on governance. Land disputes or personal quarrels are by far the main reason for people to be booked under this law.

Another such law is the Hudood Ordinance where in a case of Rape four witnesses are required to confirm that a Rape has taken place. This is practically impossible. However the woman who complains that a rape has taken place is often booked for being with another man while the culprits of the rape run free.

Therefore the Hudood Law became a tool in the hands of rapists and today any woman can be raped and when she goes to the police to get justice the Hudood Law can be used to frame her as by claiming that she has been raped she also admits that she has been with another man and committed Zinah. Some figures claim that in the year 1979 there were only 70 women in Pakistani jails. A decade later, in 1988, this figure had risen to 6000 and over 80% of the women in prison were there because of these laws. It is said many more women do not even report rapes in fear of being persecuted due to this law.

Is Pakistan really Islamic?

Better to have a Secular constitution than Islam only in name

There is no doubt that our leaders found us a land that was a safe haven for Muslims and gave us freedom to make our own decisions without the fear of suffering biased treatment for the faith we followed. However the question today is how much Islam is being followed in the country?

For instance the Quran states “Keep yourselves away from bribes because it is kufr and one who receives them will never smell the scent of paradise”. The fact is in Pakistan taking and giving bribes is so common that even a noble person can hardly live without paying one. Some honourable folk still struggle on but their lives are much more difficult. If a person has money it is a possibility he has given or taken a bribe at least once. Unfortunately the entire bureaucracy is at the forefront of this rot. Justice is sold and witnesses can be bought.

On the other hand while drinking is not allowed and a license is required in order to drink in Pakistan people who want to drink do so with impunity and with no fear of being punished. The law is not even being implemented while if a drunkard happens to get caught a simple bribe wins back the persons freedom. Also while adultery is considered a punishable law under the constitution it is practiced by many people in the country without any fear of punishment. The same goes for many other laws.

The fact is many laws related to Islam exist in Pakistan but they are there only in name. They are either being misused by people for their own interests or they are not implemented and people who commit heinous crimes are allowed to go free because of them without any fear of punishment while the innocent are framed.

The real question for Pakistan today is whether it is sensible to have a false, broken and corrupt “Islamic Republic” in name or it is better to have a secular constitution that guarantees freedom to everyone and ensures that there are no vaguely addressed laws that make a mockery of our Religion which are misused for the benefit of a few criminals.

Why do we fear Secularism? Pakistan Nationalist Association

 

[game over]

not a single credible source, no credible links posted, the posters are getting hyped up for maybe nothing. even people have started blaming religion and indians have got chance to do their trolling business as good as possible.. instead of discussing the matter, the members are getting insane here!!

 

[game over]

I see only one way to overcome this problem,

Teach children when they are in school that all religion are equal, All the minority in the country are as loved as majority by almighty God. Different religion are just different path to get to the God. If you teach basic good to the children while they are in school then that is the only way to expect that atleast new generation will not become dumbass-naroow minded religious scum.

as we are taught all the good things, make your children taught not to come to every other pakistani forum and start their trolling activities and seek opportunity for it..

if yu are so desparate to seek better quality education, do it to indians that they dont have to hate pakistan and not to dream about nuking it..

 

[Awesome]

I think we need an anti-intolerance law in Pakistan.

Where people get punished for showing intolerance to others. That filter out all the horrible people out of Pakistan.

The intolerance - not (just) lack of education, is the problem here. From Parents to teachers, to leaders - we rarely see anybody take an active interest to promote tolerance.

 

[MilesTogo]

Change the criminal nature of "blasphemy" laws into "civil". The problem will be solved to some degree at least.

 

[sparklingway]

not a single credible source, no credible links posted, the posters are getting hyped up for maybe nothing. even people have started blaming religion and indians have got chance to do their trolling business as good as possible.. instead of discussing the matter, the members are getting insane here!!

Stop ranting. A first line search would bring you the original news source.

as we are taught all the good things, make your children taught not to come to every other pakistani forum and start their trolling activities and seek opportunity for it..

if yu are so desparate to seek better quality education, do it to indians that they dont have to hate pakistan and not to dream about nuking it..

You're the troll here, he's not. Learn to be respectful towards others. All nationalities are welcome on PDF. If you can't learn to debate properly then don't post replies.

 

[SiegHeil]

"I have learnt that you laid hands on a woman who had hurled abuses on me, and, therefore, got her hand amputated. God has not sought vengeance even in the case of polytheism, which is a great crime.

He has not permitted mutilation even with regard to manifest infidelity. Try to be considerate and sympathetic in your attitude towards others in future. Never mutilate, because it is a grave offence. God purified Islam and the Muslims from rashness and excessive wrath. You are well aware of the fact that those enemies fell into the hands of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) who had been recklessly abusing him; who had turned him out of his home; and who fought against him, but he never permitted their mutilation."

I cant unerstand how one can blindly believe in these holy books. why is it that you learn everything from religion why cant you be a humanist insted of being a Hindu,Muslim.

 

[brahmastra]

as we are taught all the good things, make your children taught not to come to every other pakistani forum and start their trolling activities and seek opportunity for it..

if yu are so desparate to seek better quality education, do it to indians that they dont have to hate pakistan and not to dream about nuking it..

what wrong I said.

I'm just saying give knowledge to the citizens about 'All religious are equal' at school level. after a decade or two, you will see a generation who looks at other people beyond from the eyes of religion.

if child learns from their teachers/parents that 'only our religion is true' that don't you think that it is easy for scumbag-terrorist to 'recruit' them.

 

[JonAsad]

I have found few sources on the same topic,

Christian Telegraph
Muslim mob kills wife, children of Christian in Pakistan


Religionnewsblog
Muslim Mob Kills Wife, Children of Christian in Pakistan

the persecution times
Muslim Mob Kills Wife, Children of Christian in Pakistan The Persecution Times



Compass Direct News

sparklingway used compassdirect, i dont find it credible in any way, go through the website and its all anti islamic, such site cannot be used as a credible source,

I doubt the integrity and intentions of the poster, i dont quote from a religiously biased websites we check, double check the sources to see the credibility before posting.

Another thing,
Why not any Pakistani media, geo, dawn which are hungry for such masala news are reporting it?

Why is the indian media for which i can say same repoting it?

 

[sparklingway]

I have found few sources on the same topic,

Christina Telegraph
Muslim mob kills wife, children of Christian in Pakistan

Religionnewsblog
Muslim Mob Kills Wife, Children of Christian in Pakistan

the persecution times
Muslim Mob Kills Wife, Children of Christian in Pakistan The Persecution Times

Compass Direct News

sparklingway used compassdirect, i dont find it credible in any way, go through the website and its all anti islamic, such site cannot be used as a credible source,

I doubt the integrity and intentions of the poster, i dont quote from a religiously biased websites we check, double check the sources to see the credibility before posting.

Another thing,
Why not any Pakistani media, geo, dawn which are hungry for such masala news are reporting it?

Why is the indian media for which i can say same repoting it?

Compass Direct is the original news service reporting this. Other blogs cross-posting it does not make it their news. However, CDN is in their own words "dedicated to providing exclusive news ..... of situations and events facing Christians persecuted for their faith".

Please read the following post:-

http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...kills-christian-family-jhelum.html#post992564

 

[Patriot]

I don't blame these people at all - I blame the state (you know who i am talking about ) for brainwashing people for over 3 decades.Truly today i am ashamed of being a Pakistani.Pakistanis are intolerant and i have no doubt they will screw rest of their friends (Such as China by going to Jihad in China).Pakistan will eventually be isolated and then people will get the reality as to how their arab friends help them.I don't even argue with people now - you know all of them are far right wingers and its worthless taking any thing with them - There first answer to my question is hey are you even a muslim?So i don't even discuss such issues with them.Make no mistake - Half the educated people here are also bigoted like this Mullah mr khan.It's all fucked up in Pakistan - I told my cousin we will eventually kill talibans and he said ok i know that but what about blackwater that is a bigger threat - That shows the mentality of our people.My cousin study in one of the most liberal university of Pakistan.The fate of Pakistan has been sealed by Molvis and their followers.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

sometimes i feel EmO GiRl is right, when i see these idiots killing in the name of religion

May Allah have mercy on all of us

Its a sad incident - strongly condemned by a Muslim

 

[sparklingway]

Pakistanis are intolerant and i have no doubt they will screw rest of their friends (Such as China by going to Jihad in China).

I have listened to a Chinese diplomat being asked why they stopped giving tourist visas on the border and on arrival to Pakistanis. His response was blunt and he named organizations and some famous names who had gone on their tableeghi missions to Xinjinag and promoted Jihad against the Chinese govt, demand of independence and asked the locals to rise up in arms with their support.

 

[Patriot]

I have listened to a Chinese diplomat being asked why they stopped giving tourist visas on the border and on arrival to Pakistanis. His response was blunt and he named organizations and some famous names who had gone on their tableeghi missions to Xinjinag and promoted Jihad against the Chinese govt, demand of independence and asked the locals to rise up in arms with their support.

Yeah i have encountered these Tableeghis first hand - They're retarded man.Logic does not work on them.