MMRCA: Self Goal by IAF?

[Raul_AD]

The Tejas will have , could have. Currently the aircraft had to have its radome replaced and awaits refuelling kits. It will take time to mature. Meanwhile the Rafale is a mature platform carrying out combat operations as we speak. Again, this is fallacy trying to base radar coverage and power on Radome size..What matters more is the sophisitcation of the signal processors behind it and the underlying software.. and the Rafale has a fairly mature AESA on hand for this while this speculative large AESA you talk of does not exist at all...even on paper.

Radome and refueling kits are to be arrive from Cobam by Nov'14. How much time do you think it will take to install both the items and test it? Atmost by March-June'15 FOC will be achieved for MK-I. Note weapons trials are already verified out on current Radome, only the range will increase.

How mature is Rafale AESA?? They just arrived on the platform, yet to see the its performance. While regarding the power supplied to Radar, that why it will best work on MK-II which will have more power, due to more powerful powerplant thanks to GE F-414 engine.And regarding the sophistication of signal processors dont you think Elta EL/M 2052 will be second to none.

All the bottom arguments are essentially speculations on an aircraft that has not flown and is not tested. Essentially you are handing over the lives of IAF pilots on the hope that the aircraft will meet development milestones(which it has only recently begun to somewhat meet). That is a risk I do not think the IAF wants to take with its pilots and their willingness on the program regardless of what happens is clear enough.

Who is stopping "Imported Air Force" to test the aircraft by inducting it in numbers. IAF is reluctant in inducting the Aircraft they only want next SP-2 to be delivered them on much latter date.

With current manufacturing capacity of 8 per year they can get whole first squadron of 18 aircraft by 2016, all depends on IAF how early they want the aircraft.

Best range of Uttam AESA is 100km.And as for Elta EL/M 2052 it is denied by US to india best we can go Is Hybrid version that too will take 5-6 years best by LRDE To Develop Radar that can compare with it counter parts.And Boy Indian PSU's have a reputation in overlapping Time-frames

Yes you are true in some sense, but in the current scenario with fresh cooperation between USA & India it will be restricted in future also???

Uttam AESA is in testing phase. It wont take much time in integrating two existing radars rather then developing a new radar on completely new technology. Integrating can be done in lesser time then developing new one.

 

[cloud_9]

Whatever the government orders,they gonna crash it with a big smile and write a big azz blog about it.

Best option is to buy kites......Indigenous and low cost.

 

[Raul_AD]

Irrelevant, utterly irrelevant because the Mk.2 with its AESA radar will only be ready, at the earliest, in 2020 and it will take a good 2-3 years to see 1-2 SQDs of it in service so whilst you could see all 126 Rafales with AESA ,and all other advanced systems, in service it would take until 2030 to see a similar number of LCAs in service (and possibly even more Rafales as the 63 follow on clause will likely be exercised).

Sirji, if Rafale deal singed at earliest, say in 2015 do you think first Rafale before 2019????? this will be colliding with inducting time frame of Tejas MK-II, which will definitely be ready for induction by 2020, is it not??????

Who is stopping IAF to induct Tejas MK-I in numbers with installed capacity of 8 nos. per year? By the time Rafale arrives, IAF can have full order of 40 ac delivered to them. Let them test and make strategy around Tejas Platform which will be useful in MK-II version when it arrives around 2020.

You can't just brush off SPECTRA like that as if it is but a trivial detail, it is a game changer in the region and for the IAF. And you have admitted yourself the combat load of the Rafale will be superior so how is the cost of the Rafale not justified? You get what you pay for.

And you really think the LCA Mk.2 is going to cost under $45-50MN a unit? So at most 1.5-2 Mk.2 for 1 Rafale but then the Rafale has better performance in certain criteria so that is pretty much negated.

So you want India to pay $20-22 Billion just for SPECTRA???????? Can EW suit with desired sophistication not be developed in India in next 5-10 years????????

Is it not worth to deploy 3 Tejas with 3 AESA having around 6Ton of weapon load each agst 9.5Ton weapon load of 1 Rafale in same price???????

What do you think the new GoI can do? I too hope they will go for a more aggressive policy on indigenous systems but it's not as if ADA/HAL aren't working flat out on the LCA right now, there is such a thing as R&D cycles and rate of development that can't be changed overnight. There is little the current GoI can do to improve the situation- it is already on the right track.

Dont you think DRDO/ADA/HAL is feeling the STICK of new GOI????

 

[NKVD]

Yes you are true in some sense, but in the current scenario with fresh cooperation between USA & India it will be restricted in future also???

Uttam AESA is in testing phase. It wont take much time in integrating two existing radars rather then developing a new radar on completely new technology. Integrating can be done in lesser time then developing new one.

yeah Level of cooperation is Seen in Recent javelin Deal(we choose Spike).USA Sucks when it comes to TOT boy Rather we should come down to our Feet and Accept Reality Is our operational squadron are decreasing day by day when we are on stage of two front aggression maybe future collision its best we get better tech what our enemies have and that we will get only from West and France is known for its Reputation in defense deals.

 

[Manindra]

After initial batch rest of F-414 engines produced in India under licence .

F-414 is a good engine. If Kaveri doesn't pan out it makes the most sense to try to get a ToT to license produce it.

F-414EPE version is also interesting giving 20% more thrust for a thrust ratio of 11 to 1 not sure if that's enough for super cruise for the Tejas.

Current F414 is good enough but if extra thrust would be good if would not come with lower engine life or other penalty.

 

[Trawllu]

Hi,

Here is how I look at it---india wanted the defence industry to totally move away from Pakistan---so it dangles a humongous carrot in front of the world's weapons producing 'cuntries'.

It succeeds in its primary goal----and then it got carried away it the attention that it received----everyone coming in----bending over backwards---so somewhere from there onwards---the focus and the goal lost its direction---it all became show and pomp.

no at the outset everyone knew that only 1 will win the tender

 

[Skull and Bones]

So you want India to pay $20-22 Billion just for SPECTRA???????? Can EW suit with desired sophistication not be developed in India in next 5-10 years????????

Is it not worth to deploy 3 Tejas with 3 AESA having around 6Ton of weapon load each agst 9.5Ton weapon load of 1 Rafale in same price???????

Yes, you can do that, but that'll will involve mobilizing more number of assets and more logistical support. The procurement price of the aircraft is not the only factor, the lifetime expenditure should be factored in. And at the time of crisis, maintaining a large number of assets, that can be done with fewer sophisticated aircraft, can be a logistical nightmare.

 

[Raul_AD]

yeah Level of cooperation is Seen in Recent javelin Deal(we choose Spike).USA Sucks when it comes to TOT boy Rather we should come down to our Feet and Accept Reality Is our operational squadron are decreasing day by day when we are on stage of two front aggression maybe future collision its best we get better tech what our enemies have and that we will get only from West and France is known for its Reputation in defense deals.

Hummm! So the French are really trustworthy as they were in "Scorpion" deal????????

Do you think they will give you TOT of SPECTRA; Thales RBE2 - AESA; Engine - Snecma M88?????

NOBODY IN THE WORLD WILL PROVIDE YOU TOT ON ABOVE ITEMS. In TOT if you are not receiving the above items what you are achieving IN TOT = "BABAJI KA THULLU" = SCREWDRIVER TOT = assemble French parts in India.

 

[NKVD]

Hummm! So the French are really trustworthy as they were in "Scorpion" deal????????

Do you think they will give you TOT of SPECTRA; Thales RBE2 - AESA; Engine - Snecma M88?????

NOBODY IN THE WORLD WILL PROVIDE YOU TOT ON ABOVE ITEMS. In TOT if you are not receiving the above items what you are achieving IN TOT = "BABAJI KA THULLU" = SCREWDRIVER TOT = assemble French parts in India.

what do you think TOT Really means they are giving much better option than what Russian given us in MKI

 

[Raul_AD]

Yes, you can do that, but that'll will involve mobilizing more number of assets and more logistical support. The procurement price of the aircraft is not the only factor, the lifetime expenditure should be factored in. And at the time of crisis, maintaining a large number of assets, that can be done with fewer sophisticated aircraft, can be a logistical nightmare.

Sir are'nt we dreaming of 42 squadron for our beloved "Imported Air Force" ????

Single Engine Aircraft with proven engine will be maintenance headache or Maintenance of a TWIN-ENGINE Jet??

An air craft which apart from engine you inhouse produce 80% parts or the aircraft which you Assemble Phorein Maal and dependent on third country. Choices is yours for going off-cource.

 

[Raul_AD]

what do you think TOT Really means they are giving much better option than what Russian given us in MKI

What are that ???? I never able to understand the "HOLE" which is called TOT ?????

On serious note : Sirji!! Please understand NOBODY IN THE WORLD IS GOING TO GIVE YOU "DRAWING BOARD TOT" Which you can use or further develop for your own.

Example is SCB tech which we have with AL-31 Engine from Russia which we can copy but cannot develop for any other Engine because we dont know how to Design new Blade!!!!

French are not giving your tech for AESA; SPECTRA; Engine forget about even manufacturing them in India.

 

[NKVD]

What are that ???? I never able to understand the "HOLE" which is called TOT ?????

On serious note : Sirji!! Please understand NOBODY IN THE WORLD IS GOING TO GIVE YOU "DRAWING BOARD TOT" Which you can use or further develop for your own.

Example is SCB tech which we have with AL-31 Engine from Russia which we can copy but cannot develop for any other Engine because we dont know how to Design new Blade!!!!

French are not giving your tech for AESA; SPECTRA; Engine forget about even manufacturing them in India.

If you don't the concept of TOT its representing in your post.If you have quarries Please Visit mmrca Thread.Matter Ends here

 

[Skull and Bones]

Sir are'nt we dreaming of 42 squadron for our beloved "Imported Air Force" ????

Single Engine Aircraft with proven engine will be maintenance headache or Maintenance of a TWIN-ENGINE Jet??

An air craft which apart from engine you inhouse produce 80% parts or the aircraft which you Assemble Phorein Maal and dependent on third country. Choices is yours for going off-cource.

In your previous post, you were talking about 3 LCA's replacing a single Rafale, now you're back to one on one comparison. Make up your mind, and come back.

 

[Raul_AD]

In your previous post, you were talking about 3 LCA's replacing a single Rafale, now you're back to one on one comparison. Make up your mind, and come back.

heheheehehehe!!!!! This is hilarious!!!!! 1) Sirji we are dreaming for 42 Squadrons. This is for Numbers!!!!

2) How many types of aircrafts do you think is not maintenance headache ??? MIG-27, Jaguar, Mirage, SU-MKI, Rafale, MIG-29, MIG-21 (as per IAF they will ploy it well beyond 2025), Tejas MK-I, MK-II, FGFA??????

3) Then again the same point :Single Engine Aircraft with proven engine will be maintenance headache or Maintenance of a TWIN-ENGINE Jet??

Note: Tejas MK-I carries MMR-radar, Mirage carries - Doppler Radar; TWR of Tejas is greater the Mirage; AOA of Tejas MK-I is reaching 26 Degree; Only Mirage exceeds in Weapon payloads.

So who will prevail is contest Tejas MK-I or Mirage????? Food for Thought.

 

[Raul_AD]

If you don't the concept of TOT its representing in your post.If you have quarries Please Visit mmrca Thread.Matter Ends here

Sirji!! Why are you getting angry with little kid?????

Why don't you quote something worthwhile regarding TOT Hula-hupa, as I indicated towards SCB Tech with AL-31.

Or the EGO of a PHORAIN FAN BOY got busted ????