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MMRCA debate

We need aircrafts now considering the budget and cost of maintainance,,,plus can u tell me for how much years the lifespan will be increased after the upgrade.

But sure as lca will not be ready for a couple of years we have little choice than to get them upgraded and they indeed are getting upgraded.Still they are far from a modern 4 gen fighter.

LCA & it's follow up versions are very important now,LCA will obviously have better available rates than the Mig-21 & Mig-29 since the spares will be available at home & perhaps we can explore options with the French to jointly develop Future versions of LCA or SAAB
 
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he-man

Have u seen the guy talking about nukes, irrelevant to the question asked?
He even said India can have only 30 squadrons ie all imported .. And he seems happy about it..


Most Air Force people seem happy only with imported items and they are not even considering LCA even for secondary role..

I wish we have video of discussion about LCA
 
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Okay the upgrade looks fine

"This follows a fatigue analysis done by the IAF, which has estimated that the Jaguars could remain operational for another 25 years--till 2030."

mujhe nahi lagta psu pehalwan yaha muh dikhayenge:p:

Koi nai aaya saala:lol:

he-man

Have u seen the guy talking about nukes, irrelevant to the question asked?
He even said India can have only 30 squadrons ie all imported .. And he seems happy about it..


Most Air Force people seem happy only with imported items and they are not even considering LCA even for secondary role..

I wish we have video of discussion about LCA

No man,,they know the inside out of HAL,,,we donot.
Most have concluded in no uncertain terms that HAL is junk,,he said this many times.

Others share his opinion.
 
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LCA & it's follow up versions are very important now,LCA will obviously have better available rates than the Mig-21 & Mig-29 since the spares will be available at home & perhaps we can explore options with the French to jointly develop Future versions of LCA or SAAB

Spares will be available, oh man, let me put it this way, earlier last year the ADA chief grinned and quipped that a little while back we didn't even know that MRO in itself is a technology and a separate and complex field of expertise. Unless things move from the ad hoc to the planned, what you've stated will turn out to be false in absolute if not relative terms.
 
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Also we have close to 130-140 jaguars,,,,we simply cannot afford to retire them,,,we have to upgrade these
SEPECAT Jaguar
23px-Flag_of_the_United_Kingdom.svg.png
United Kingdom
23px-Flag_of_India.svg.png
India Ground-attack aircraft M/S T 117 31 Undergoing upgrades to prolong service life.
 
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Spares will be available, oh man, let me put it this way, earlier last year the ADA chief grinned and quipped that a little while back we didn't even know that MRO in itself is a technology and a separate and complex field of expertise. Unless things move from the ad hoc to the planned, what you've stated will turn out to be false in absolute if not relative terms.

Only Big Bang reforms can make that happen,the new govt seems quite committed to Defense sector so their is a little hope
 
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So should it be allowed to rot or should it be salvaged via emergency action.


divide and conquer ! even the rot in the system can be treated and cured. the british taught us all. :D
 
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Only Big Bang reforms can make that happen,the new govt seems quite committed to Defense sector so their is a little hope

COMMITTED TO THE DEFENCE SECTOR! :lol:
Better than the UPA lot, yes, by somewhat of a margin. But it is nowhere close to what we need, as in what we needed yesterday forget now.



And no, before people quibble about something being better than nothing, this isn't a matter so trivial, this is like saying that while facing a 5.56 slug a level-2 plate is better than having no protection at all, ghanta, you will still have a hole in you by the end of it and you will still bleed out. In such matters you need performance, from the first moment, at a quantum and quality which you NEED to address the problem, that we do not have, will NEVER have at this rate given our congenital issues.

Look at the folks in the video, they're dumbing it down for us, the real gems are right there.

1) No strategic defence review. Yup we are perhaps the only large country which does that. (THIS IS THE BIGGEST MISTAKE IN THE WHOLE SCHEME OF THINGS)

2) No planned expenditure, LTIPP banaya aur phir kachde me phenk diya. Even this year's budget, all the expenses go in the unplanned bracket, why? Because it takes acumen and intellect to run with the LTIPP, acumen and intellect India as a nation lacks so far in its ministerial and ruling dispensation.

3) Structural reforms, CDS, unified MoD, recommendations from 84 to the most recent committees, all thrown in the dustbin.

Lollipop chuso!

Lets get more specific.

LCA:-

The program starts and the MoD decides that the one organisation which had the best bet of designing the plane won't design it, ad hoc decision taken to set up ADA from scratch for the purpose, HAL reduced to systems integrator with no real design ownership. Hallelujah! Forget all else that follows, its too long a story! In case you don't understand the significance of the aforementioned, take some time and think about how that translates to the problems we are facing today.

Scorpene:-

The French setup a comprehensive industrial package, one of the best in the world, the yard gets the option to pick its own in country partners to participate, in country cos. fail to absorb technology, cannot meet QC/QR (DCNS bangs its head on the wall), finally after failed batches orders go back to France for the components (even the limited transfer of know how not realized) causing the delays we so lament now (in addition to the 1.5 year delay in signing the contract after it was finally hashed out). The standard model of constructing first two vessels in France, with the said duration used to fine tune the transfer package so as to bring up QC/QR ignored, end result, clusterfu%k!

OFB:- Kept under the Department of Defence Production, structurally bound and owned by the MoD with biased access to all available infrastructure and kept alive on screw-driver giri, loves to be handheld by OEMs. No structural or policy changes envisaged.

The list is SO LONG!
 
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Thats why defence acquisitions should be done Pakistan style ,no one gets the wind until the product is on the ground and ready to go.
I disagree, a certain degree of transparency is required to keep things going, I believe it puts pressure on the people involved to choose the right option and with the proper price tag and in a timely manner or else who knows what backdoor deals will be used to compensate for national security
 
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COMMITTED TO THE DEFENCE SECTOR! :lol:
Better than the UPA lot, yes, by somewhat of a margin. But it is nowhere close to what we need, as in what we needed yesterday forget now.



And no, before people quibble about something being better than nothing, this isn't a matter so trivial, this is like saying that while facing a 5.56 slug a level-2 plate is better than having no protection at all, ghanta, you will still have a hole in you by the end of it and you will still bleed out. In such matters you need performance, from the first moment, at a quantum and quality which you NEED to address the problem, that we do not have, will NEVER have at this rate given our congenital issues.

Look at the folks in the video, they're dumbing it down for us, the real gems are right there.

1) No strategic defence review. Yup we are perhaps the only large country which does that. (THIS IS THE BIGGEST MISTAKE IN THE WHOLE SCHEME OF THINGS)

2) No planned expenditure, LTIPP banaya aur phir kachde me phenk diya. Even this year's budget, all the expenses go in the unplanned bracket, why? Because it takes acumen and intellect to run with the LTIPP, acumen and intellect India as a nation lacks so far in its ministerial and ruling dispensation.

3) Structural reforms, CDS, unified MoD, recommendations from 84 to the most recent committees, all thrown in the dustbin.

Lollipop chuso!

Lets get more specific.

LCA:-

The program starts and the MoD decides that the one organisation which had the best bet of designing the plane won't design it, ad hoc decision taken to set up ADA from scratch for the purpose, HAL reduced to systems integrator with no real design ownership. Hallelujah! Forget all else that follows, its too long a story! In case you don't understand the significance of the aforementioned, take some time and think about how that translates to the problems we are facing today.

Scorpene:-

The French setup a comprehensive industrial package, one of the best in the world, the yard gets the option to pick its own in country partners to participate, in country cos. fail to absorb technology, cannot meet QC/QR (DCNS bangs its head on the wall), finally after failed batches orders go back to France for the components (even the limited transfer of know how not realized) causing the delays we so lament now (in addition to the 1.5 year delay in signing the contract after it was finally hashed out). The standard model of constructing first two vessels in France, with the said duration used to fine tune the transfer package so as to bring up QC/QR ignored, end result, clusterfu%k!

OFB:- Kept under the Department of Defence Production, structurally bound and owned by the MoD with biased access to all available infrastructure and kept alive on screw-driver giri, loves to be handheld by OEMs. No structural or policy changes envisaged.

The list is SO LONG!

Okay,I am gonna play the wait & watch game & hope for the best
 
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COMMITTED TO THE DEFENCE SECTOR! :lol:
Better than the UPA lot, yes, by somewhat of a margin. But it is nowhere close to what we need, as in what we needed yesterday forget now.



And no, before people quibble about something being better than nothing, this isn't a matter so trivial, this is like saying that while facing a 5.56 slug a level-2 plate is better than having no protection at all, ghanta, you will still have a hole in you by the end of it and you will still bleed out. In such matters you need performance, from the first moment, at a quantum and quality which you NEED to address the problem, that we do not have, will NEVER have at this rate given our congenital issues.

Look at the folks in the video, they're dumbing it down for us, the real gems are right there.

1) No strategic defence review. Yup we are perhaps the only large country which does that. (THIS IS THE BIGGEST MISTAKE IN THE WHOLE SCHEME OF THINGS)

2) No planned expenditure, LTIPP banaya aur phir kachde me phenk diya. Even this year's budget, all the expenses go in the unplanned bracket, why? Because it takes acumen and intellect to run with the LTIPP, acumen and intellect India as a nation lacks so far in its ministerial and ruling dispensation.

3) Structural reforms, CDS, unified MoD, recommendations from 84 to the most recent committees, all thrown in the dustbin.

Lollipop chuso!

Lets get more specific.

LCA:-

The program starts and the MoD decides that the one organisation which had the best bet of designing the plane won't design it, ad hoc decision taken to set up ADA from scratch for the purpose, HAL reduced to systems integrator with no real design ownership. Hallelujah! Forget all else that follows, its too long a story! In case you don't understand the significance of the aforementioned, take some time and think about how that translates to the problems we are facing today.

Scorpene:-

The French setup a comprehensive industrial package, one of the best in the world, the yard gets the option to pick its own in country partners to participate, in country cos. fail to absorb technology, cannot meet QC/QR (DCNS bangs its head on the wall), finally after failed batches orders go back to France for the components (even the limited transfer of know how not realized) causing the delays we so lament now (in addition to the 1.5 year delay in signing the contract after it was finally hashed out). The standard model of constructing first two vessels in France, with the said duration used to fine tune the transfer package so as to bring up QC/QR ignored, end result, clusterfu%k!

OFB:- Kept under the Department of Defence Production, structurally bound and owned by the MoD with biased access to all available infrastructure and kept alive on screw-driver giri, loves to be handheld by OEMs. No structural or policy changes envisaged.

The list is SO LONG!


U have easy way out of all this people....................just make me PM:victory1:
 
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U have easy way out of all this people....................just make me PM:victory1:

You'll do worse than Antony, Manmohan and co.

Acumen is not a function of intellect, which the folks in the cabinet have in heaps, it is a function of capability and appetite to plan, follow the plan with consistency and the political gumption to deal with the attendant issues/fallouts/detractors to take it to its logical conclusion.

No jingo here, not you, not me, not anyone has what it takes.
 
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You'll do worse than Antony, Manmohan and co.

Acumen is not a function of intellect, which the folks in the cabinet have in heaps, it is a function of capability and appetite to plan, follow the plan with consistency and the political gumption to deal with the attendant issues/fallouts/detractors.

No jingo here, not you, not me, not anyone has what it takes.

U are wrong by a huge shot,,,there is nothing i need to do,we have enough planners and thinkers of that particular field.
I just have to have the balls to say yes when required.
 
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