MLRS - Effective counter to SU-30MKI + Brahmos combination

[CriticalThought]

India's mainstay offensive weapon against Pakistan's frontline positions and aerial defense infrastructure comprises a combination of SU-30 MKI paired with a hypersonic Brahmos missile.

The age old dilemma of hypersonic missiles is that of speed vs. manoeuvrability. At hypersonic speeds, the missile does not have the luxury of deviating drastically from final trajectory if it is to have a reasonable level of accuracy. Classically, counter-measures have exploited this to propose relatively simple, linear attack patterns.

https://arc.aiaa.org/doi/abs/10.2514/6.1990-3379

In the previously proposed system, plural launchers and the missiles, which coast at relatively low speed compared with targets, are employed. The guidance duration for each missile is divided into two phases, i.e. midcourse phase and homing phase. In the midcourse phase, missiles are guided by programmed commands, which are often updated through uplink, during the shaped trajectory so that the homing phase by the most popular proportional navigation guidance (PNG) should be inititated in head-on geometry. This head-on geometry condition is essential to the system. It was shown by numerical simulations that the system is effective against hypersonic targets (e.g., velocity, V_t=2700m/s), below altitude 25~26km for non-maneuvering ones (i.e., lateral acceleration a_t = 0g) and below 13~14km for slightly-maneuvering ones (e.g., a_t=3g).
But additional simulation studies showed that against maneuvering targets (e.g., a_t=20g), the system does not work well. We thought it may be difficult to intercept a hypersonic maneuvering target with only a single aerodynamically controlled missile. Then we studied a relatively easy method to overcome the difficulty, under an assumption that the target maneuvers at most 1sec although its maneuver initiation time is not known. The assumption is based on the fact that, if the target maneuvers longer time with a large acceleration, it will not be able to attack the limited area where its destination exist. The basic idea of the proposed system is, by launching several missiles sequentially with time intervals, at least one missile will intercept the target while it is not maneuvering or is maneuvering slightly. The slight maneuver is not an intentional one and, for example, may be caused by atmospheric turbulence.

Here, we propose that MLRS type weapons are a very effective platform for the sequential launch of projectiles against incoming hypersonic threats such as Brahmos.

It is then significant, that the recent yearbook by MoDP lists MLRS as one of the systems in which Pakistan seeks to build indigenous capability.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-to-develop-advanced-mlrs.493376/

Specifically,

b. Production and indigenous development of Rockets MLRS
d. Indigenous development of advanced MLRS

The indigenous production of guided MLRS rockets would be a significant step for Pakistan. Although it is tactically advantageous in its own right, but when seen in the light of defending against Brahmos, such a project takes on a vital importance for national security. Coupled with shoot and scoot type of launch vehicles, these systems would be a potent response to Brahmos, and could spell significant headaches for Indian plans in the future.

We end this article on a forward looking note. Once railgun technology matures to a point that it can be deployed easily on land based systems, it should be expected that Pakistan will invest in procuring this technology for its defence needs. Crucial projects to watch in this regard would be the Turkish and Chinese railgun systems that are currently under development.

 

[kris]

Sumk 30i can fly as far as from our east bases to West borders.
How will this new weapon help

 

[amardeep mishra]

India's mainstay offensive weapon against Pakistan's frontline positions and aerial defense infrastructure comprises a combination of SU-30 MKI paired with a hypersonic Brahmos missile.

The age old dilemma of hypersonic missiles is that of speed vs. manoeuvrability. At hypersonic speeds, the missile does not have the luxury of deviating drastically from final trajectory if it is to have a reasonable level of accuracy. Classically, counter-measures have exploited this to propose relatively simple, linear attack patterns.

https://arc.aiaa.org/doi/abs/10.2514/6.1990-3379


Here, we propose that MLRS type weapons are a very effective platform for the sequential launch of projectiles against incoming hypersonic threats such as Brahmos.

It is then significant, that the recent yearbook by MoDP lists MLRS as one of the systems in which Pakistan seeks to build indigenous capability.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-to-develop-advanced-mlrs.493376/

Specifically,

b. Production and indigenous development of Rockets MLRS
d. Indigenous development of advanced MLRS

The indigenous production of guided MLRS rockets would be a significant step for Pakistan. Although it is tactically advantageous in its own right, but when seen in the light of defending against Brahmos, such a project takes on a vital importance for national security. Coupled with shoot and scoot type of launch vehicles, these systems would be a potent response to Brahmos, and could spell significant headaches for Indian plans in the future.

We end this article on a forward looking note. Once railgun technology matures to a point that it can be deployed easily on land based systems, it should be expected that Pakistan will invest in procuring this technology for its defence needs. Crucial projects to watch in this regard would be the Turkish and Chinese railgun systems that are currently under development.

Hi @CriticalThought
I have a paper in AIAA under guidance,navigation and control. So,let me take this opportunity to briefly explain why such a proposition wouldnt really work in real life without substantial changes. First off, Hypersonic brahmos is still at least 3-5 years away from induction and pakistan has not designed any indigenous MLRS system as of now. KRL one doesnt count as indigenous one.
MLRS usually comes without any guidance, it is fired at a certain trajectory and is expected to hit a portion of land with certain CEP. The job of the rocket is to impart certain velocity to the warhead so that it achieved a particular apogee. More modern systems like the recent improvements made to Indian Pinaka system also incorporates guidance kit which compensates for any errors resulting in much superior CEP figures vis-a-vis simple MLRS.
Now without wasting any time lets discuss why MLRS type weapon wont be able to intercept a hypersonic missile-
1) Lack of any guidance and control scheme--kindly note the control scheme required to compensate for the errors in trajectory is entirely different from control scheme required to implement some sort of PN or augmented-PN algorithms for target interception. Pakistan would have to design a controller first and prove it in simulations that it works correctly. The state vectors in this case could be [V,\gamma,x,h] for longitudinal plane.
2) Lets just assume that the hypothetical MLRS is steered to a pre-destined point via a command link from the FCR(fire control radar) and itz active seeker kicks in. The control design can be implemented via assuming either a 2D PN or 3D PN law. Traditional linearized approach along with gain scheduling(a kind of adaptation scheme) can be brought to bear to make things easier. However in order to fully exploit the potential one needs to venture out into the rich world of nonlinear controllers. Some of the prominent nonlinear control strategies that are available in literature(for hypersonic vehicles or interceptors) are adaptive sliding mode control, dynamic nonlinear inversion etc.
3) A tail-controlled or BTT(bank to turn) missile is preferred choice to intercept high-g targets. So the natural choice of control surface would be tail! However augmentation with thrust vectoring would result in superior control authority as implemented in latest PDV interceptor. But it would complicate the control system design. In fact in cases where both thrust fraction and tilt angle are available for control, we run into what is known as "non-affine" in control problem.

 

[wiseone2]

India's mainstay offensive weapon against Pakistan's frontline positions and aerial defense infrastructure comprises a combination of SU-30 MKI paired with a hypersonic Brahmos missile.

The age old dilemma of hypersonic missiles is that of speed vs. manoeuvrability. At hypersonic speeds, the missile does not have the luxury of deviating drastically from final trajectory if it is to have a reasonable level of accuracy. Classically, counter-measures have exploited this to propose relatively simple, linear attack patterns.

https://arc.aiaa.org/doi/abs/10.2514/6.1990-3379


Here, we propose that MLRS type weapons are a very effective platform for the sequential launch of projectiles against incoming hypersonic threats such as Brahmos.

It is then significant, that the recent yearbook by MoDP lists MLRS as one of the systems in which Pakistan seeks to build indigenous capability.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-to-develop-advanced-mlrs.493376/

Specifically,

b. Production and indigenous development of Rockets MLRS
d. Indigenous development of advanced MLRS

The indigenous production of guided MLRS rockets would be a significant step for Pakistan. Although it is tactically advantageous in its own right, but when seen in the light of defending against Brahmos, such a project takes on a vital importance for national security. Coupled with shoot and scoot type of launch vehicles, these systems would be a potent response to Brahmos, and could spell significant headaches for Indian plans in the future.

We end this article on a forward looking note. Once railgun technology matures to a point that it can be deployed easily on land based systems, it should be expected that Pakistan will invest in procuring this technology for its defence needs. Crucial projects to watch in this regard would be the Turkish and Chinese railgun systems that are currently under development.

best way to counter the MKI's is to attack Indian air bases
playing defense is not an option as the IAF keeps increasing the size of its fleet

 

[The Accountant]

India's mainstay offensive weapon against Pakistan's frontline positions and aerial defense infrastructure comprises a combination of SU-30 MKI paired with a hypersonic Brahmos missile.

The age old dilemma of hypersonic missiles is that of speed vs. manoeuvrability. At hypersonic speeds, the missile does not have the luxury of deviating drastically from final trajectory if it is to have a reasonable level of accuracy. Classically, counter-measures have exploited this to propose relatively simple, linear attack patterns.

https://arc.aiaa.org/doi/abs/10.2514/6.1990-3379


Here, we propose that MLRS type weapons are a very effective platform for the sequential launch of projectiles against incoming hypersonic threats such as Brahmos.

It is then significant, that the recent yearbook by MoDP lists MLRS as one of the systems in which Pakistan seeks to build indigenous capability.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pakistan-to-develop-advanced-mlrs.493376/

Specifically,

b. Production and indigenous development of Rockets MLRS
d. Indigenous development of advanced MLRS

The indigenous production of guided MLRS rockets would be a significant step for Pakistan. Although it is tactically advantageous in its own right, but when seen in the light of defending against Brahmos, such a project takes on a vital importance for national security. Coupled with shoot and scoot type of launch vehicles, these systems would be a potent response to Brahmos, and could spell significant headaches for Indian plans in the future.

We end this article on a forward looking note. Once railgun technology matures to a point that it can be deployed easily on land based systems, it should be expected that Pakistan will invest in procuring this technology for its defence needs. Crucial projects to watch in this regard would be the Turkish and Chinese railgun systems that are currently under development.

MLRS is a land attack weapon ... so just forget it ...

We need a surface to air advance missile which can act as SAM

 

[Penguin]

The best way to counter Indian military forces is to not get involved in a conflict in the first place, find a way to peacefully coexist and avoid the associated spending levels at both sides. Lots of money will then become available to domestic development, improving e.g. public infrastructure, healthcare and education.

 

[amardeep mishra]

The best way to counter Indian military forces is to not get involved in a conflict in the first place, find a way to peacefully coexist and avoid the associated spending levels at both sides. Lots of money will then become available to domestic development, improving e.g. public infrastructure, healthcare and education.

Hi my dear @Penguin
Of course what you said should be adopted however India with a growth rate of >7% can much better afford to spend 2% of GDP on defence as compared to pakistan that spends 3.5% of GDP on defence with a much lower growth percentage. Also I need not stress it again that it is India that spends much more than pakistan on education,healthcare etc etc.

 

[Rational guy]

India's mainstay offensive weapon against Pakistan's frontline positions and aerial defense infrastructure comprises a combination of SU-30 MKI paired with a hypersonic Brahmos missile.

The age old dilemma of hypersonic missiles is that of speed vs. manoeuvrability. At hypersonic speeds, the missile does not have the luxury of deviating drastically from final trajectory if it is to have a reasonable level of accuracy. Classically, counter-measures have exploited this to propose relatively simple, linear attack patterns.



Here, we propose that MLRS type weapons are a very effective platform for the sequential launch of projectiles against incoming hypersonic threats such as Brahmos.

It is then significant, that the recent yearbook by MoDP lists MLRS as one of the systems in which Pakistan seeks to build indigenous capability.


b. Production and indigenous development of Rockets MLRS
d. Indigenous development of advanced MLRS

The indigenous production of guided MLRS rockets would be a significant step for Pakistan. Although it is tactically advantageous in its own right, but when seen in the light of defending against Brahmos, such a project takes on a vital importance for national security. Coupled with shoot and scoot type of launch vehicles, these systems would be a potent response to Brahmos, and could spell significant headaches for Indian plans in the future.

We end this article on a forward looking note. Once railgun technology matures to a point that it can be deployed easily on land based systems, it should be expected that Pakistan will invest in procuring this technology for its defence needs. Crucial projects to watch in this regard would be the Turkish and Chinese railgun systems that are currently under development.

Did you write this yourself? How can a land attack weapon shoot down su 30? If you put a homing device in a MLRS it will become a surface to surface missile and not a SAM. If you want to defend against sukhoi and brahmos you will need qn air defence system like S 400 or Barak 8.

 

[Jinn Baba]

Did you write this yourself? How can a land attack weapon shoot down su 30? If you put a homing device in a MLRS it will become a surface to surface missile and not a SAM. If you want to defend against sukhoi and brahmos you will need qn air defence system like S 400 or Barak 8.

I think he's suggesting using MLRS to hit Indian airfields and radar/sam installations.

 

[Penguin]

Hi my dear @Penguin
Of course what you said should be adopted however India with a growth rate of >7% can much better afford to spend 2% of GDP on defence as compared to pakistan that spends 3.5% of GDP on defence with a much lower growth percentage. Also I need not stress it again that it is India that spends much more than pakistan on education,healthcare etc etc.

Whether 20 or 40% of the population is living in poverty hardly makes a difference: it is too much in either case. Heck, it is 10% here and we feel that is too much, even if poverty here is a much different thing than poverty in India or Pakistan or Bangladesh etc.

Countries by percent of population living below $3.10 in 2011 PPP dollars. Based on World Bank API data.

 

[The Accountant]

@Penguin sir with this type of thinking can you expect mutual co existence ? With every new weapon system they purchased they officially thereaten us and we have to counter it ... i still remember the day when india had 1998 nuclear test their ministers started giving us direct threats to anhiliate Pakistan ... they have not accepted the partition and never will ...

Hi my dear @Penguin
Of course what you said should be adopted however India with a growth rate of >7% can much better afford to spend 2% of GDP on defence as compared to pakistan that spends 3.5% of GDP on defence with a much lower growth percentage. Also I need not stress it again that it is India that spends much more than pakistan on education,healthcare etc etc.

Sir for you kind info world biggest population of poor people is in india ... half of your population is without even sanitation ... it is difficult to find sleeping places on foothpath of mumbai and here you are making tall claims ...

So go and feed your forces first provide shelter to people sleeping on foothpath and provide sanitation to them ...

Pakistan is a small country and respective to its size we have decent economy ... our standard of living is quiet decent and if you get out of this regional dominance phobia then both countries can work on the development of its people

 

[Rational guy]

I think he's suggesting using MLRS to hit Indian airfields and radar/sam installations.

Mlrs can hit max upto 60 kms. Besides military aircraft are parked inside hardened shelters.

 

[amardeep mishra]

Countries by percent of population living below $3.10 in 2011 PPP dollars. Based on World Bank API dat

Hi! Of course by PPP metric India is going to have a very pathetic figure. I'm sure you're intelligent enough to understand why is that the case--1.2bn population!
However what is more important is the fact how we are developing and how things are changing in both India and Pakistan. If you look carefully, India consistently have been growing much better than Pakistan in terms of GDP growth rate for almost 2.5 decades now! The govt institutions in India no doubt aint the best in the world but they've been performing much better than Pakistan. There's a ssystem of checks and balances ,audit and accountability in India which is a sourely lacking in Pakistan.

 

[Sliver]

an MLRS to hit an aircraft - or a maneuverable missile!

not possible. the MLRS is designed to hit incoming army columns/mechanized columns. you need a homing seeker (either heat or radar homing ) or you need a guidance system (from external sources like a AEWC or AWACS) that can feed into a rocket to guide it to the incoming aircraft.

without any of the above, your chances of hitting an aircraft with the MLRS are just down to luck.

 

[Penguin]

Hi! Of course by PPP metric India is going to have a very pathetic figure. I'm sure you're intelligent enough to understand why is that the case--1.2bn population!
However what is more important is the fact how we are developing and how things are changing in both India and Pakistan. If you look carefully, India consistently have been growing much better than Pakistan in terms of GDP growth rate for almost 2.5 decades now! The govt institutions in India no doubt aint the best in the world but they've been performing much better than Pakistan. There's a ssystem of checks and balances ,audit and accountability in India which is a sourely lacking in Pakistan.

I don't care and I am not going to debate the relative performances of the two countries (by my standard both have abject poverty to address) . Peacefull coexistence with Pakistan would also benefit India greatly, freeing up resources for peacfull purposes. Or you could continue to spend on defence at the same level but fully direct your efforts against a certain large neigbouring country.